Stock Ballast Pumps

[Tao of Wake]

I think the water will take longer to drain into your hard tank than what you are pumping into your bag. That will let the bag start filling with water before tank is full. It will eventually even out but you will have a hard time judging a full hard tank and not wanting any in your bag.

I've modified the design once again! It's a tiny bit more complex, but I am determined to get it right so that it is fully automatic. I've split the fill line so that it will fill both the hard tank and fat sac at the same time. That way, the hard tank will definitely fill first. As the fat sac fills, it will still drain into the hard tank until the hard tank is full. I have also re-routed the vent line from the hard tank to the fill port of the fat sac (splitter there). That way, when the hard tank is full, it will vent to the fat sac, thus helping to fill it. While the hard tank is filling, the air in there will vent to the fat sac. This may somewhat interfere with the water flowing in from the pump, but that doesn't really matter as I am more concerned with getting the hard tank filled first. I've also added check valves to ensure water and air flow in the proper directions. All I really did is add these check valves and some more splitters. I'll use the stock tubing on the hard tank; just re-route the vent to the fat sac. I will use 1" tubing everywhere else.

One part I am unsure of is the draining. When the fat sac is empty (drained into the hard tank) and the hard tank starts to drain, it may not be able to since air can't enter the tank to displace the draining water. How does it do it now, though? Is there no check valve on the vent line so that air can enter the vent into the hard tank?

EDIT: It couldn't let air in that way because it is using the same thru hull to drain. The water would just go back into the vent line. How does the stock system work?

Edited November 9, 2008 by kernaltao

[liljohn]

Well at a quick glance i see one problem air (or vent from the sack will not flow down to the tank so any air you get in your system will be trapped. also you will have a herd time knowing when the system is even in weight. other than that it looks good. check the new pumps to i think they need a larger thru hull. side note what program are you using to draw your system?

Let me make sure I understand the issue. When the water travels from the fat sac into the hard tank, there will be trapped air in the hard tank not allowing it to be filled completely. Is that correct? That could easily be solved by leaving the stock vent line from the hard tank and just adding another vent line for the fat sac (see updated diagram below). I could just move the stock check valve and tie into the line for the fat sac vent after the check valve, and then install another check valve for the fat sac vent. This wouldn't be that difficult at all.

Since the new fat sacs will primarily be used for surfing, I will only fill one side at a time. If I do wakeboard, I will just fill the hard tanks until BMS indicates they are full. I could also determine this by seeing when the fat sacs start filling with water (hard tanks are full).

I use Microsoft Visio to create the diagrams.

What pumps will you purchase for the drains?

running seperate vents should solve that problem. I think if my numbers are right running two pumps for the drain system will starve one pump . here is a good link for checking pipe size and flow.( http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml )

As a rule of thumb always use the left columns the calcs given are straigh runs at max volume. they dont account for bends which diminish flow quickly.

[Chia]

for draining, why not just screw a pump into the bottom of the bag and run a new line to a thru hull next to the other draining thru hulls?

Wire it into the existing drain pump on the hard tank and when you hit drain on the hard tank, it will also turn on the drain pump screwed into the bottom of the bag.

Edited November 9, 2008 by Cervelo

[liljohn]

for draining, why not just screw a pump into the bottom of the bag and run a new line to a thru hull next to the other draining thru hulls?

Wire it into the existing drain pump on the hard tank and when you hit drain on the hard tank, it will also turn on the drain pump screwed into the bottom of the bag.

That is a good idea but the hard tank pump would run dry before the bag was empty. I think its funny how hard people try not to drill holes in there boat. I admit I was one of them but after my first hole I have to admitt It was a waste of time trying not to do it. Personaly the way im doing it dose not involve drilling but is not 100% auto. wich dose not bother me im not so lazy that I can`t get out of my seat and turn a valve. I am usualy up helping prep anyways..

[Chia]

for draining, why not just screw a pump into the bottom of the bag and run a new line to a thru hull next to the other draining thru hulls?

Wire it into the existing drain pump on the hard tank and when you hit drain on the hard tank, it will also turn on the drain pump screwed into the bottom of the bag.

That is a good idea but the hard tank pump would run dry before the bag was empty. I think its funny how hard people try not to drill holes in there boat. I admit I was one of them but after my first hole I have to admitt It was a waste of time trying not to do it. Personaly the way im doing it dose not involve drilling but is not 100% auto. wich dose not bother me im not so lazy that I can`t get out of my seat and turn a valve. I am usualy up helping prep anyways..

maybe, but i don't think it bothers these pumps to run dry for a little while, i think that is more of a concern with an impeller pump.

I agree, if drilling a hole in the boat makes the setup simpler and easier, just do it.

[liljohn]

for draining, why not just screw a pump into the bottom of the bag and run a new line to a thru hull next to the other draining thru hulls?

Wire it into the existing drain pump on the hard tank and when you hit drain on the hard tank, it will also turn on the drain pump screwed into the bottom of the bag.

That is a good idea but the hard tank pump would run dry before the bag was empty. I think its funny how hard people try not to drill holes in there boat. I admit I was one of them but after my first hole I have to admitt It was a waste of time trying not to do it. Personaly the way im doing it dose not involve drilling but is not 100% auto. wich dose not bother me im not so lazy that I can`t get out of my seat and turn a valve. I am usualy up helping prep anyways..

maybe, but i don't think it bothers these pumps to run dry for a little while, i think that is more of a concern with an impeller pump.

I agree, if drilling a hole in the boat makes the setup simpler and easier, just do it.

I dont think it would run dry for a little while. It would run 3x as long for a 750# bag. In my case im adding another switch(on-off-on) so I can drain the bags granted only one at a time but not a big deal for me personaly.

[Chia]

for draining, why not just screw a pump into the bottom of the bag and run a new line to a thru hull next to the other draining thru hulls?

Wire it into the existing drain pump on the hard tank and when you hit drain on the hard tank, it will also turn on the drain pump screwed into the bottom of the bag.

That is a good idea but the hard tank pump would run dry before the bag was empty. I think its funny how hard people try not to drill holes in there boat. I admit I was one of them but after my first hole I have to admitt It was a waste of time trying not to do it. Personaly the way im doing it dose not involve drilling but is not 100% auto. wich dose not bother me im not so lazy that I can`t get out of my seat and turn a valve. I am usualy up helping prep anyways..

maybe, but i don't think it bothers these pumps to run dry for a little while, i think that is more of a concern with an impeller pump.

I agree, if drilling a hole in the boat makes the setup simpler and easier, just do it.

I dont think it would run dry for a little while. It would run 3x as long for a 750# bag. In my case im adding another switch(on-off-on) so I can drain the bags granted only one at a time but not a big deal for me personaly.

an 800gph pump will drain the 750 in less than 10 minutes. the piranna/tsunami pumps don't care whether they are in water or not, 6 minutes of run dry should not hurt them. in my other boat we would forget to turn them off and an hour later wonder what that humming noise was, never affected the operation of the pump at all.

[Tao of Wake]

running seperate vents should solve that problem. I think if my numbers are right running two pumps for the drain system will starve one pump . here is a good link for checking pipe size and flow.( http://flexpvc.com/WaterFlowBasedOnPipeSize.shtml )

As a rule of thumb always use the left columns the calcs given are straigh runs at max volume. they dont account for bends which diminish flow quickly.

That's a great point. But if I minimize the amount of 3/4" pipe, I could increase the rate. I was planning on using 1" PVC for the tee & 1" hose, so it would just be the 3/4" port on the hard tank that would limit the flow, but the pumps should be able to just draw more through that 3/4" fitting (increased pressure & noise). If there was a long run of 3/4", I could see how it would significantly affect it. I haven't timed it, but it seems like it takes about 5 minutes to fill the 250# hard tank. That would be a 6GPM/360GPH rate. Therefore, the 800GPH pump is way under utilized due to the 3/4" hose. I plan on putting 1" everywhere except the vent lines. But based on the data that you shared, I shouldn't spend the money on pumps larger than 1100 GPH, unless I want to put up with increased noise (and pressure). I may just stick with the stock 800GPH pumps and see how long it takes to fill & drain with the increased hose size (1" vs 3/4"). If it is still too slow, I'll upgrade to 1100 GPH on all 6 pumps. I may even take the plunge and drill new thru hulls and just add the 1100 GPH pumps to the fill side. That way, I wouldn't tee off the one pump; instead I would have the 800's filling the hard tanks and the 1100's filling the fat sacs. As I have it designed, when the hard tank is full, it will just start venting to the fat sac, increasing the flow into the fat sac. I would just wire each pair of pumps together (like Cervelo mentioned). I could do the same thing on the drain side, but I really don't want any additional holes on the side of the boat. If I did, I would want to get SS like the current ones; have you seen the cost on these?!

My motivation for keeping this completely automatic is that I would rather not have to train others on my boat how to operate the ballast. That would include friends and my wife. If I don't train them, then I always have to be the one to operate the ballast. I don't know about your wife and friends, but mine like to be extremely helpful on the boat, and always telling them to leave it alone because I need to do it would not be the attitude I would like to take. I don't want to stifle their desire to help, and at the same time, I don't want to have to take time out to train them. Some people I have on my boat are only out with me a few times a summer. I could see how they would forget how to do it, and I would have to train them every year.

[liljohn]

Sounds like you got it. I hear you on the train them thing. If you wanted to go the valve route just add labels it is only two valves and would be pretty cheap. when are you getting started on yours? mine wont be for a bit yet but ill take a bunch of pictures.

[Tao of Wake]

Sounds like you got it. I hear you on the train them thing. If you wanted to go the valve route just add labels it is only two valves and would be pretty cheap. when are you getting started on yours? mine wont be for a bit yet but ill take a bunch of pictures.

I've still got to think through this more and then purchase all of the materials. I probably won't even start until Christmas break. I'm off for two weeks, so that would be a good time. The boat is up at our place about 4 hours away, so I need to plan on spending a few days up there to complete it. I'll definitely take pictures, too.

[Tao of Wake]

I hope this is my FINAL design!

Summary:

1. Replace all six Pirahna 800's with Pirahna 1100's

2. Replace all tubing and fittings with 1" so that the only 3/4" are the ports on the tanks & sacs. Anyone know of a manufacturer that produces fat sacs with larger ports? How about hard tanks? How difficult would it be to expand the ports on the hard tanks?

3. Re-route vent line to run from fat sac to thru hull. Everything will vent through this vent line.

4. Add tee to vent port of hard tank and run tubing to fill and drain ports of fat sac. During fill, when hard tank is full, it will start filling the fat sac through both of these lines. When the fat sac fills to a certain point, the back pressure will stop the flow coming in the drain port. It will continue filling using the path of least resistance, which will be to the fill port (top of bag). I will ensure that the drain port of the fat sac will go into the direct port on the tee. That way, the drain line will have the fewest number of elbows in the line, which will make draining from the fat sac to the hard tank the fastest possible. Anyone know where I could find a 1" 45 degree tee with threaded ends? West Marine has a straight threaded tee, but I can't seem to find one with 45 degree angles (like you find at Home Depot, but the smallest I have found is 2" and without threaded ends; it would be fairly easy to add the threads, but I really would rather not have to reduce from 2" to 1").

5. Add check valves on fill pumps to ensure pressure of water in bag & tank does not flow back through the pumps.

6. Drill new 3/4" thru hull for center pump so that each pump has it's own thru hull. Right now, both the center and starboard pumps share the same thru hull.

7. Add ball valve to bow fat sac vent line to avoid possible drainage during bow ups & downs.

If I only want to fill a hard tank, I can just watch the BMS. If I want to ensure I get the tank 100% full, I can just listen for water entering the fat sac, which means the hard tank is completely full.

I believe that during draining, the pump will create a vacuum effect and suck the water from the fat sac into the hard tank. This way, the pump won't be starved. In any case, there will certainly be water flowing; maybe just not at the capacity of the pump.

I believe this is the simplest design that is the easiest to implement and operate. Certainly, it would be easier by not replacing the pumps, not drilling a new thru hull and not replacing all of the tubing and fittings with 1". I am just doing this to minimize fill & empty times. I did read a post where someone indicated that by replacing the 3/4" hose between the drain port on the fat sac and the vent port of the hard tank, drain time from the sac to the tank was considerably decreased. Therefore, I would at least recommend this.

[Chia]

i see disappointment in your future. These pumps are great for filling from the top, however, if you expect these pumps to push water your flow rates are going to drop to extremely slow.

the simplest design is to do what the factory has done, add a 800gph fill pump per bag and add a 800gph drain pump per bag.

one additional hole in the bottom of the boat per bag and one additional hole in the side of the boat per bag.

[liljohn]

i see disappointment in your future. These pumps are great for filling from the top, however, if you expect these pumps to push water your flow rates are going to drop to extremely slow.

the simplest design is to do what the factory has done, add a 800gph fill pump per bag and add a 800gph drain pump per bag.

one additional hole in the bottom of the boat per bag and one additional hole in the side of the boat per bag.

I have to agree. Thats why the valve is so nice your filling the tank and bag from the top.

[Tao of Wake]

i see disappointment in your future. These pumps are great for filling from the top, however, if you expect these pumps to push water your flow rates are going to drop to extremely slow.

the simplest design is to do what the factory has done, add a 800gph fill pump per bag and add a 800gph drain pump per bag.

one additional hole in the bottom of the boat per bag and one additional hole in the side of the boat per bag.

Aren't these pumps MADE for pushing water? It will just be pushing water into the hard tank and then venting to the fat sac through the port on the top of the sac. This is different from what others have done (pushing up through the drain port on the fat sac). Today when the hard tank vents, the flow of water out of the boat is just as great as when I am draining the tank. Therefore, I believe the pump can push through the hard tank just as effectively as just pumping through the line. Have you tried setting it up this way and know for a fact that it is slow?

There shouldn't be any appreciable loss in flow by just going through the hard tank (again, because of experience in flow rate through the tank vs. draining). Remember that I have it so that it will flow to both the fill (top) and drain ports on the fat sac. Based on fluid dynamics, it will just find the route with the least amount of resistance, which will be both lines until the sac is filled to a certain point. Then it will just continue filling through the fill (top) port.

Also, because I am replacing everything with 1", this should dramatically increase the flow rate.

I want to avoid running more switches (none avail on my dash), cutting 6 more holes in the boat, always remembering to fill the hard tank before the fat sacs, etc. That is why I am trying to design it this way.

I really do appreciate everyone's comments and help. I may just have to set it up this way and see how it goes. I'll be sure to post my results (won't be until next summer, though!).

[Chia]

i see disappointment in your future. These pumps are great for filling from the top, however, if you expect these pumps to push water your flow rates are going to drop to extremely slow.

the simplest design is to do what the factory has done, add a 800gph fill pump per bag and add a 800gph drain pump per bag.

one additional hole in the bottom of the boat per bag and one additional hole in the side of the boat per bag.

Aren't these pumps MADE for pushing water? It will just be pushing water into the hard tank and then venting to the fat sac through the port on the top of the sac. This is different from what others have done (pushing up through the drain port on the fat sac). Today when the hard tank vents, the flow of water out of the boat is just as great as when I am draining the tank. Therefore, I believe the pump can push through the hard tank just as effectively as just pumping through the line. Have you tried setting it up this way and know for a fact that it is slow?

There shouldn't be any appreciable loss in flow by just going through the hard tank (again, because of experience in flow rate through the tank vs. draining). Remember that I have it so that it will flow to both the fill (top) and drain ports on the fat sac. Based on fluid dynamics, it will just find the route with the least amount of resistance, which will be both lines until the sac is filled to a certain point. Then it will just continue filling through the fill (top) port.

Also, because I am replacing everything with 1", this should dramatically increase the flow rate.

I want to avoid running more switches (none avail on my dash), cutting 6 more holes in the boat, always remembering to fill the hard tank before the fat sacs, etc. That is why I am trying to design it this way.

I really do appreciate everyone's comments and help. I may just have to set it up this way and see how it goes. I'll be sure to post my results (won't be until next summer, though!).

that is not my experience. when the fill overflows, the water comes out with a lot less force than when draining. ie: the water does not shoot out of the overflow like it does on draining. YMMV

Edited November 10, 2008 by Cervelo

[Tao of Wake]

i see disappointment in your future. These pumps are great for filling from the top, however, if you expect these pumps to push water your flow rates are going to drop to extremely slow.

the simplest design is to do what the factory has done, add a 800gph fill pump per bag and add a 800gph drain pump per bag.

one additional hole in the bottom of the boat per bag and one additional hole in the side of the boat per bag.

Aren't these pumps MADE for pushing water? It will just be pushing water into the hard tank and then venting to the fat sac through the port on the top of the sac. This is different from what others have done (pushing up through the drain port on the fat sac). Today when the hard tank vents, the flow of water out of the boat is just as great as when I am draining the tank. Therefore, I believe the pump can push through the hard tank just as effectively as just pumping through the line. Have you tried setting it up this way and know for a fact that it is slow?

There shouldn't be any appreciable loss in flow by just going through the hard tank (again, because of experience in flow rate through the tank vs. draining). Remember that I have it so that it will flow to both the fill (top) and drain ports on the fat sac. Based on fluid dynamics, it will just find the route with the least amount of resistance, which will be both lines until the sac is filled to a certain point. Then it will just continue filling through the fill (top) port.

Also, because I am replacing everything with 1", this should dramatically increase the flow rate.

I want to avoid running more switches (none avail on my dash), cutting 6 more holes in the boat, always remembering to fill the hard tank before the fat sacs, etc. That is why I am trying to design it this way.

I really do appreciate everyone's comments and help. I may just have to set it up this way and see how it goes. I'll be sure to post my results (won't be until next summer, though!).

that is not my experience. when the fill overflows, the water comes out with a lot less force than when draining. ie: the water does not shoot out of the overflow like it does on draining. YMMV

If I try it this way and it is just too slow for me, I could always just add one fill pump for each tank, put a 3-way splitter on the fill port of each sac, tie the pump into the existing so that it is powered on with just the one switch, and away we go! This would significantly increase the flow to the fat sac while keeping all of the other advantages of the design. This is getting much closer to your solution, though!! It may end up that way, but I want to give my idea a try first. Thanks again for all your input.

[liljohn]

i see disappointment in your future. These pumps are great for filling from the top, however, if you expect these pumps to push water your flow rates are going to drop to extremely slow.

the simplest design is to do what the factory has done, add a 800gph fill pump per bag and add a 800gph drain pump per bag.

one additional hole in the bottom of the boat per bag and one additional hole in the side of the boat per bag.

Aren't these pumps MADE for pushing water? It will just be pushing water into the hard tank and then venting to the fat sac through the port on the top of the sac. This is different from what others have done (pushing up through the drain port on the fat sac). Today when the hard tank vents, the flow of water out of the boat is just as great as when I am draining the tank. Therefore, I believe the pump can push through the hard tank just as effectively as just pumping through the line. Have you tried setting it up this way and know for a fact that it is slow?

There shouldn't be any appreciable loss in flow by just going through the hard tank (again, because of experience in flow rate through the tank vs. draining). Remember that I have it so that it will flow to both the fill (top) and drain ports on the fat sac. Based on fluid dynamics, it will just find the route with the least amount of resistance, which will be both lines until the sac is filled to a certain point. Then it will just continue filling through the fill (top) port.

Also, because I am replacing everything with 1", this should dramatically increase the flow rate.

I want to avoid running more switches (none avail on my dash), cutting 6 more holes in the boat, always remembering to fill the hard tank before the fat sacs, etc. That is why I am trying to design it this way.

I really do appreciate everyone's comments and help. I may just have to set it up this way and see how it goes. I'll be sure to post my results (won't be until next summer, though!).

that is not my experience. when the fill overflows, the water comes out with a lot less force than when draining. ie: the water does not shoot out of the overflow like it does on draining. YMMV

If I try it this way and it is just too slow for me, I could always just add one fill pump for each tank, put a 3-way splitter on the fill port of each sac, tie the pump into the existing so that it is powered on with just the one switch, and away we go! This would significantly increase the flow to the fat sac while keeping all of the other advantages of the design. This is getting much closer to your solution, though!! It may end up that way, but I want to give my idea a try first. Thanks again for all your input.

Adding a pump and wireing to your existing system is not good your tank will fill way before your sack. If adding switches is the problem look into the old stereo remote with room for 2 switches walla problem solved.

[Tao of Wake]

i see disappointment in your future. These pumps are great for filling from the top, however, if you expect these pumps to push water your flow rates are going to drop to extremely slow.

the simplest design is to do what the factory has done, add a 800gph fill pump per bag and add a 800gph drain pump per bag.

one additional hole in the bottom of the boat per bag and one additional hole in the side of the boat per bag.

Aren't these pumps MADE for pushing water? It will just be pushing water into the hard tank and then venting to the fat sac through the port on the top of the sac. This is different from what others have done (pushing up through the drain port on the fat sac). Today when the hard tank vents, the flow of water out of the boat is just as great as when I am draining the tank. Therefore, I believe the pump can push through the hard tank just as effectively as just pumping through the line. Have you tried setting it up this way and know for a fact that it is slow?

There shouldn't be any appreciable loss in flow by just going through the hard tank (again, because of experience in flow rate through the tank vs. draining). Remember that I have it so that it will flow to both the fill (top) and drain ports on the fat sac. Based on fluid dynamics, it will just find the route with the least amount of resistance, which will be both lines until the sac is filled to a certain point. Then it will just continue filling through the fill (top) port.

Also, because I am replacing everything with 1", this should dramatically increase the flow rate.

I want to avoid running more switches (none avail on my dash), cutting 6 more holes in the boat, always remembering to fill the hard tank before the fat sacs, etc. That is why I am trying to design it this way.

I really do appreciate everyone's comments and help. I may just have to set it up this way and see how it goes. I'll be sure to post my results (won't be until next summer, though!).

that is not my experience. when the fill overflows, the water comes out with a lot less force than when draining. ie: the water does not shoot out of the overflow like it does on draining. YMMV

If I try it this way and it is just too slow for me, I could always just add one fill pump for each tank, put a 3-way splitter on the fill port of each sac, tie the pump into the existing so that it is powered on with just the one switch, and away we go! This would significantly increase the flow to the fat sac while keeping all of the other advantages of the design. This is getting much closer to your solution, though!! It may end up that way, but I want to give my idea a try first. Thanks again for all your input.

Adding a pump and wireing to your existing system is not good your tank will fill way before your sack. If adding switches is the problem look into the old stereo remote with room for 2 switches walla problem solved.

I want the hard tank to fill before the sac so that the sac doesn't collapse the tank. Then the hard tank would just vent to the sac. When both are full, it would vent out the vent on the sac.

[Tao of Wake]

Due to info in this post, I plan on adding this valve to each of the 3 drain lines in my design and wiring them in parallel with each drain pump so that it opens the valve when the pump is activated. Anyone see any issues with this?

How do I go about wiring the valve? Just cut one of the wires coming into the pump, attach it to one of the wires on the valve, then run the other wire from the valve to the open wire on the pump?

[Chia]

i see disappointment in your future. These pumps are great for filling from the top, however, if you expect these pumps to push water your flow rates are going to drop to extremely slow.

the simplest design is to do what the factory has done, add a 800gph fill pump per bag and add a 800gph drain pump per bag.

one additional hole in the bottom of the boat per bag and one additional hole in the side of the boat per bag.

Aren't these pumps MADE for pushing water? It will just be pushing water into the hard tank and then venting to the fat sac through the port on the top of the sac. This is different from what others have done (pushing up through the drain port on the fat sac). Today when the hard tank vents, the flow of water out of the boat is just as great as when I am draining the tank. Therefore, I believe the pump can push through the hard tank just as effectively as just pumping through the line. Have you tried setting it up this way and know for a fact that it is slow?

There shouldn't be any appreciable loss in flow by just going through the hard tank (again, because of experience in flow rate through the tank vs. draining). Remember that I have it so that it will flow to both the fill (top) and drain ports on the fat sac. Based on fluid dynamics, it will just find the route with the least amount of resistance, which will be both lines until the sac is filled to a certain point. Then it will just continue filling through the fill (top) port.

Also, because I am replacing everything with 1", this should dramatically increase the flow rate.

I want to avoid running more switches (none avail on my dash), cutting 6 more holes in the boat, always remembering to fill the hard tank before the fat sacs, etc. That is why I am trying to design it this way.

I really do appreciate everyone's comments and help. I may just have to set it up this way and see how it goes. I'll be sure to post my results (won't be until next summer, though!).

that is not my experience. when the fill overflows, the water comes out with a lot less force than when draining. ie: the water does not shoot out of the overflow like it does on draining. YMMV

If I try it this way and it is just too slow for me, I could always just add one fill pump for each tank, put a 3-way splitter on the fill port of each sac, tie the pump into the existing so that it is powered on with just the one switch, and away we go! This would significantly increase the flow to the fat sac while keeping all of the other advantages of the design. This is getting much closer to your solution, though!! It may end up that way, but I want to give my idea a try first. Thanks again for all your input.

Adding a pump and wireing to your existing system is not good your tank will fill way before your sack. If adding switches is the problem look into the old stereo remote with room for 2 switches walla problem solved.

I want the hard tank to fill before the sac so that the sac doesn't collapse the tank. Then the hard tank would just vent to the sac. When both are full, it would vent out the vent on the sac.

i hate to be so disagreeable here, but there is no more support with the hard tank full or if it is empty. because the hard tank is vented, any great amount of weight on the tank will just collapse the tank and push the water out of the overflow.

having said that, a 750 in the bin will not collapse the hard tank.

[liljohn]

kernalto- I have to say now your adding selinoids it is getting complicated. I would have to say look at what your spending it would seem to me that you could add the sacks independently of the hard tanks for what your spending. I know you say you dont have swithes left but there is a stereo bracket that can be had from Malibu that has room for 2 switches. then you dont have to go thru all the guess work plumb it just like the factory did and done.

Its funny I was at the dealer today and we were talking about this thread. I was amazed at a couple of the storys they told me of the diy ballast installs. everyone in the shop said keep it simple "simple works" those words keep ringing in my ear..

[txwakejunkie]

kernalto- I have to say now your adding selinoids it is getting complicated. I would have to say look at what your spending it would seem to me that you could add the sacks independently of the hard tanks for what your spending. I know you say you dont have swithes left but there is a stereo bracket that can be had from Malibu that has room for 2 switches. then you dont have to go thru all the guess work plumb it just like the factory did and done.

Its funny I was at the dealer today and we were talking about this thread. I was amazed at a couple of the storys they told me of the diy ballast installs. everyone in the shop said keep it simple "simple works" those words keep ringing in my ear..

I cant find the pic on here, but someone had made a plate that goes down in the cubbie hole next to the driver that had some rocker switches in it. Looked real nice.

Edited November 11, 2008 by txwakejunkie

[Calexan]

I really wish you guys would get this all sorted out so I can add some 750's to the rear of my 09 LSV. I just need something easy and simple that pumps and drains from me sitting happily in my seat! Is that to much to ask for! haha

[liljohn]

kernalto- I have to say now your adding selinoids it is getting complicated. I would have to say look at what your spending it would seem to me that you could add the sacks independently of the hard tanks for what your spending. I know you say you dont have swithes left but there is a stereo bracket that can be had from Malibu that has room for 2 switches. then you dont have to go thru all the guess work plumb it just like the factory did and done.

Its funny I was at the dealer today and we were talking about this thread. I was amazed at a couple of the storys they told me of the diy ballast installs. everyone in the shop said keep it simple "simple works" those words keep ringing in my ear..

I cant find the pic on here, but someone had made a plate that goes down in the cubbie hole next to the driver that had some rocker switches in it. Looked real nice.

That pic is in the ws-420 mount thread.

[liljohn]

I really wish you guys would get this all sorted out so I can add some 750's to the rear of my 09 LSV. I just need something easy and simple that pumps and drains from me sitting happily in my seat! Is that to much to ask for! haha

I know exactly how to do that. Do you have the gumpshion to drill that pretty new boat.? or better yet just pull your stock tanks and add custom sacks now that would be sweet.