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antifreeze vs. drain engine block


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This is the 1st year I've only drained the block, which is what the Indmar owners manual states to do for winter lay-up. I was curious to know who else just drain's the block vs. putting in the pink stuff and pumping it through. I spoke with a boat shop repairman and he advised pumping in the pink stuff, but for him thats good business sense because a lot of people don't winterize their boats themselves. I live in VA so the temps get cold in periods but aren't nearly as bad as more northern states. I know a lot of people put the pink stuff in to be 100% sure, but who never puts it in? Has anyione had any block problems with just draining?

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I have been doing this for 15 years ... never put in any pink stuff! I do however, put two (in case on burns out) 100W bulbs in the engine compartment. We usually see sub zero temps a couple of times every winter.

Make sure everything is drained including hot shower and heater. The lights also seem to help keep things dry and perhaps causes any water left to evaporate. Be careful of light placement ... I try to get them down low but well away from the hull.

/Steve

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I just drain, but let me add that I also blow pressurized air thru the block (via the trans cooler) with a shop vac. I get perhaps another 1/2 gallon of water out that way. I then follow that up by putting the vacuum action to the drain plug on the bottom of the block. By removing the vacuums motor from the can and not using the filter I get a lot more pressure out of the hose when blowing air into the engine. No problems for 5 winters now and it can get below 0 here in Jersey.

edit; I do not use anti freeze because I can not fiqure out a way to get it completely out of the engine come spring time and contain it to avoid contaminating the ground or the waterways. As far as I'm conserned, there is no enviromentally safe anti freeze.

Edited by electricjohn
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The closest thing to environmentally friendly is the pink stuff, & AFAIK it doesn't have the freeze-protection that the toxic stuff has. I think that it can actually freeze at a realistic point for many people & I would think that for most the above procedures for draining the block would be a better solution. JMO though....

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Unless you plan on collecting the "pink stuff" and disposing of it properly, we (Bake's, Malibu, & Indmar) would suggest draining it. In our shop here at Bake's we do not use anti freeze or recommend any customers to use it.

Once you learn how to drain it, it's much easier than dealing with adding/collecting anti freeze. With the knowledge and the right tools you should be able to drain the engine in less than half a hour. If you need help take some pictures of your engine and e-mail me, i can mark all the spots that need to be winterized and send the pictures back to you or post them. (take pictures of all sides of the motor as best as possible)

-Paul

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I've drained the engine block (on each side of lower block), the walter's V-drive unit, removed the quick disconnect, pulled the hose off from the bottom of the transmission cooler and one side of the raw water pump. Not sure what else I could drain... Am I missing anything? I followed the Indmar owner's manual.

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The Pink kind of antifreeze is not harmful to the environment, just so you know.

You could splash some in your hand and take a drink, and it wouldn't hurt you. They use the key ingredient of this stuff in the production of many items, including things you eat, like ice cream.

understanding the chemical properties of something and guessing or being biased because it has the word "antifreeze" in it which has traditionally has carried a stigma because of the ethylene was poisonous is not the same.

pink antifreeze won't hurt you. nor will it effect the ground water or your lake.

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The Pink kind of antifreeze is not harmful to the environment, just so you know.

You could splash some in your hand and take a drink, and it wouldn't hurt you. They use the key ingredient of this stuff in the production of many items, including things you eat, like ice cream.

understanding the chemical properties of something and guessing or being biased because it has the word "antifreeze" in it which has traditionally has carried a stigma because of the ethylene was poisonous is not the same.

pink antifreeze won't hurt you. nor will it effect the ground water or your lake.

I agree. Do you want to purposefully ingest propylene gycol (pink stuff)? No. But propylene glycols are most commonly used in applications in which low acute oral toxicity is required, or for freeze protection where incidental contact with drinking water is possible. As stated, propylene glycol-based fluids are used extensively in food processing applications. So there is absolutely no good safety or environmental reason not to use it for freeze protection in an engine unless you just prefer draining your block.
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I drain, then backfill with A/F. No real reason for doing it that way other than it being another opportunity for overkill on boat maintenance, which I enjoy. Plus, the PCM manual recommends A/F. I drain into a bucket in the spring and re-fill the bottles for storage. Then, use again next year. I use Propylene Glycol-based GREEN antifreeze made by Sierra. It's for cars and trucks, and has no ethylene.

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The Pink kind of antifreeze is not harmful to the environment, just so you know.

You could splash some in your hand and take a drink, and it wouldn't hurt you. They use the key ingredient of this stuff in the production of many items, including things you eat, like ice cream.

understanding the chemical properties of something and guessing or being biased because it has the word "antifreeze" in it which has traditionally has carried a stigma because of the ethylene was poisonous is not the same.

pink antifreeze won't hurt you. nor will it effect the ground water or your lake.

I agree. Do you want to purposefully ingest propylene gycol (pink stuff)? No. But propylene glycols are most commonly used in applications in which low acute oral toxicity is required, or for freeze protection where incidental contact with drinking water is possible. As stated, propylene glycol-based fluids are used extensively in food processing applications. So there is absolutely no good safety or environmental reason not to use it for freeze protection in an engine unless you just prefer draining your block.

Sorry to disagree but anything ending in glycol is petroleum based. while it may be ok in small doses to humans I think that if all boaters used it the epa would have something to say about it. Why is it so hard to simply drain your block? I keep reading these posts and I am sorry but im getting upset. If we keep poluting are water ways we will all pay for it. the key here is the pink stuff is not harmful in small doses if every boat you see on your local lake put 1 oz of it in your lake would that still be a small amount? I know on my lake that would easily be houndreds of gallons. Sorry to rant but get off your lazy bum and do it right the way.. Or pay some one to do it the right way.

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First using glycol does not mean it is going into the lake. Start your boat in the drive and catch the antifreeze take it to a auto shop and it can be properly dumped.

I like to use something I think a empty cooling system can be trouble. I like the seals and gaskets wet. I don't want any chance for rust or corrosion to start. as I also thought someone said no chance for any water hiding. If the heat in the garage failles or someone left the door open it shouldn't be a problem.

I like to start in the spring on the drive and check everything for leaks. also see the thermostat work. Don't put the boat into gear!

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Sorry to disagree but anything ending in glycol is petroleum based. while it may be ok in small doses to humans I think that if all boaters used it the epa would have something to say about it. Why is it so hard to simply drain your block? I keep reading these posts and I am sorry but im getting upset. If we keep poluting are water ways we will all pay for it. the key here is the pink stuff is not harmful in small doses if every boat you see on your local lake put 1 oz of it in your lake would that still be a small amount? I know on my lake that would easily be houndreds of gallons. Sorry to rant but get off your lazy bum and do it right the way.. Or pay some one to do it the right way.
Great - you choose not to use antifreeze. I choose to use it and have laid out my arguments for its use, safety and environmental profile with facts. Gycols are sugars - they are very ubiquitous. Please site facts against its use (with the knowledge that I catch it into two 5-gallon buckets in the spring) and I may be swayed. And BTW, I don't appreciate the lazy comment - I am far from it.
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Sorry to disagree but anything ending in glycol is petroleum based. while it may be ok in small doses to humans I think that if all boaters used it the epa would have something to say about it. Why is it so hard to simply drain your block? I keep reading these posts and I am sorry but im getting upset. If we keep poluting are water ways we will all pay for it. the key here is the pink stuff is not harmful in small doses if every boat you see on your local lake put 1 oz of it in your lake would that still be a small amount? I know on my lake that would easily be houndreds of gallons. Sorry to rant but get off your lazy bum and do it right the way.. Or pay some one to do it the right way.
Great - you choose not to use antifreeze. I choose to use it and have laid out my arguments for its use, safety and environmental profile with facts. Gycols are sugars - they are very ubiquitous. Please site facts against its use (with the knowledge that I catch it into two 5-gallon buckets in the spring) and I may be swayed. And BTW, I don't appreciate the lazy comment - I am far from it.

The lazy comment was not directed at any one person so don`t be offended. If you truly catch all of it and dispose of it properly hey great. Your one in how many thousnds of boat owners that use antifreeze. There is a reason why manufacturers dont recomend it. There is more reason as to why the EPA says dont do it. All these reasons are to protect us from us. I know that when I`m 60 I want my kids and there kids to enjoy the water ways just like I have. If we as a society dont take care of the water ways then big brother will step in and take them from us. Just like California did by banning 2 stroke motors. for countless year people have been winterizing there boats with out antifreeze and have not had a problem. I dont see why that should change now.

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The lazy comment was not directed at any one person so don`t be offended. If you truly catch all of it and dispose of it properly hey great. Your one in how many thousnds of boat owners that use antifreeze. There is a reason why manufacturers dont recomend it. There is more reason as to why the EPA says dont do it. All these reasons are to protect us from us. I know that when I`m 60 I want my kids and there kids to enjoy the water ways just like I have. If we as a society dont take care of the water ways then big brother will step in and take them from us. Just like California did by banning 2 stroke motors. for countless year people have been winterizing there boats with out antifreeze and have not had a problem. I dont see why that should change now.

Wow, more "emotional" arguments without any facts or reasoning behind them. So your lazy comment was not directed at one person but rather a group of us who use antifreeze including me. Thanks for clarifying Whistling.gif

-One in thousands? Please site your source for this information.

-Reason for manufacturers not recommending it? What might that be? I like to use it because it routinely gets down to -20 to -30 degrees at night in northern Wisconsin where I store my boat. I like knowing in spring when I fire my boat up that I won't have any problems with the block, tranny, heater core, hoses, etc.

-Please site EPA guideline against putting antifreeze into an engine block (again, I catch it in spring). Seems to me the last time I checked every automobile in the world uses the stuff. Can't be that bad, heh? And think of all those leaking radiators, especially in third world countries. How about all the millions of gallons of aircraft deicer that is used in winter? We should all be dead by now according to your arguments. And to reiterate, both ethylene and propylene gycol are highly biodegradable.

-Protect us from us? I am quite capable of protecting myself and my family without some busybody government sticking their nose into my business. And to be perfectly clear, clean air and water and extremely important to me.

If you think antifreeze is going to ruin the earth, you're seriously misguided.

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The lazy comment was not directed at any one person so don`t be offended. If you truly catch all of it and dispose of it properly hey great. Your one in how many thousnds of boat owners that use antifreeze. There is a reason why manufacturers dont recomend it. There is more reason as to why the EPA says dont do it. All these reasons are to protect us from us. I know that when I`m 60 I want my kids and there kids to enjoy the water ways just like I have. If we as a society dont take care of the water ways then big brother will step in and take them from us. Just like California did by banning 2 stroke motors. for countless year people have been winterizing there boats with out antifreeze and have not had a problem. I dont see why that should change now.

Wow, more "emotional" arguments without any facts or reasoning behind them. So your lazy comment was not directed at one person but rather a group of us who use antifreeze including me. Thanks for clarifying Whistling.gif

-One in thousands? Please site your source for this information.

-
Reason for manufacturers not recommending it? What might that be?
I like to use it because it routinely gets down to -20 to -30 degrees at night in northern Wisconsin where I store my boat. I like knowing in spring when I fire my boat up that I won't have any problems with the block, tranny, heater core, hoses, etc.

-
Please site EPA guideline against putting antifreeze into an engine block
(again, I catch it in spring). Seems to me the last time I checked every automobile in the world uses the stuff. Can't be that bad, heh? And think of all those leaking radiators, especially in third world countries. How about all the millions of gallons of aircraft deicer that is used in winter? We should all be dead by now according to your arguments. And to reiterate, both ethylene and propylene gycol are highly biodegradable.

-Protect us from us? I am quite capable of protecting myself and my family without some busybody government sticking their nose into my business. And to be perfectly clear, clean air and water and extremely important to me.

If you think antifreeze is going to ruin the earth, you're seriously misguided.

Wow sounds like I got your panties in a knot.. Manufacturers dont recomend it because they dont want it in there lakes and streams. The EPA says you cant use it because it is not a closed cooling system. I aplaued you for catching it in 5 gallon buckets in the spring but honestly can you tell me that every one is that resposable? I doubt it. as far as the rest of your rant(third world countries deicer etc) I wont dignify them with a responce the topic is using antifreeze in your boat on a boat website.

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Tease2.gif

http://www.ci.kirkland.wa.us/__shared/asse...endix_F5688.pdf Read the part that starts with oh antifreeze this is a report from the EPA

http://www.epa.state.oh.us/pic/nr/1997/may/boat.html read some more..

http://www.wnrmag.com/supps/2002/aug02/onin.htm please read the last three sentances and remeber this is your state..

still need proof? Google gave me another 2.5 million web sites that I can send you..

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As far as I'm conserned, there is no enviromentally safe anti freeze.

So you don't think that RV anti-freeze is environmentally friendly? As far as I see, if it's safe to treat pipes that a human may drink out of, then I'd say it's pretty safe to put in the boat. IMHO......

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