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martho

The Slalom Course

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NorCaliBu
2. I was just wondering if there was some training drill which is conducted at slower speeds.

Nope. Just me being chicken of 34. :)

....the first thing the staff at Coble's did with me was drop the boat speed down....because there was no speed to hide the form flaws.

You know, I had forgotten that a few years ago when we had Bob LaPointe out to our lake for a private group lesson that was the first thing he had each of us do. Run the course at 15 off / 30 mph...I'll never forget that my first "set" was 18 passes Shocking.gif through the course. Of course, it was 2 passes, hand Bob the ski and he adjusted my boots. 2 more passes, hand Bob the ski he'd adjust my fin. 2 more passes,......I was crazy sore after that day. First set was 18, second set was 14, third set was 10, fourth set was 8....50 passes through the course in one day... Shocking.gif ...I was in much better shape then and even so, I could barely lift my arms the next day. It was great. Crazy.gif

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No pictures of me skiing 15/22 off this weekend, We didnt' have a third to shoot pics.

Sat. was a blow out anyway and even if there would have been someone else to shoot pictures they wouldn't have been any good due to the bouncing of the boat and the spray from the wind.

Sunday was great though, no wind and it was close to 70 and water in the low 50's.

Got [email protected] first set and shocked myself, got [email protected] second set. I've never run 38 in November before-mostly because our course is always out before now.

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Hoover
Got [email protected] first set and shocked myself, got [email protected] second set.  I've never run 38 in November before-

Six, I'm glad my advise helped you out! Let me know if there is anything else I can do. Tease.gif

I have been hoping one of my students would progress a little! I told GT to sell everything and learn how to bowl, because I give out one piece of advice and your into 39, and all he wants to do is bash Carboworx and ski on a Phantom at 28 MPH. I've had it. Crazy.gifCrazy.gifCrazy.gif:lol:Blowup.gif

Just Jokin, Great Job getting into 39 this late in the year! :salute:

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Malibudude
This is insightful reading and hopefully it'll sink in and I'll perform it.  I'm still working on getting on edge through the wake as Mike can attest I'm probably the poster child of what not to do.  I'm on a 67" HO Burner which might be a tad small for me, but I can't blame that on the issues that I have.

See, now you're going to have to post a picture. Biggrin.gif

Well Mike found a picture of me from Last May. I hope to think I did progress some from last May.

Mike,

Do you think a 67" is too short for me?

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Hoover,

If I read your advice correctly(the in-between the lines content), I think you were advising me to "pound sand and shut up". Crazy.gif

GT's got a thick head, probably trauma from hitting the canopy too many times.

It seems that lot's of folks like to bash Carbonworx and that's ok with me because that meand they aren't skiing on it- less people for me to worry about beating on the starting dock Yahoo.gif. Our team credo is "you can ski with us or against us"

Are you going to make it to the clinic?

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Hoover

I wasn't saying that at all. Your advise is great. Keep it coming. I could just see a lot of me last year in Martho's pictures, and just wanted to pass on the help I received. I'm excited for Martho progressing with the Burner.

I do still want to try out a Carbonworx that has been proven. Obviously, by your experience, the one we had may have been bad.

Yes, I'm planning on being there. I thought Gt had me on there. I posted my reply today.

Cheers.gif

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NorCaliBu
Do you think a 67" is too short for me?

In a shaped ski the 67 is probably OK. When you make the jump to a traditional ski you'll probably want to go to a 68 though. What do you weigh? I know it's more than me but not sure of the actual #. Biggrin.gif You also have to take into account the speed that you're skiing and your target speed. The faster you go the shorter you can go....although even that philosophy is changing.

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Malibudude
Do you think a 67" is too short for me?

In a shaped ski the 67 is probably OK. When you make the jump to a traditional ski you'll probably want to go to a 68 though. What do you weigh? I know it's more than me but not sure of the actual #. Biggrin.gif You also have to take into account the speed that you're skiing and your target speed. The faster you go the shorter you can go....although even that philosophy is changing.

I'm probably between 200-205Lbs, you feeble little dude Tongue.gif . I've taken off the small fin on the rear fyi.

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NorCaliBu
I'm probably between 200-205Lbs, you feeble little dude Tongue.gif .  I've taken off the small fin on the rear fyi.

Feeble? :( I'm not quite that old yet. Biggrin.gif

Bob LaPointe recommended putting the foil on the fin once you are skiing above 32 mph. He said that you just don't need a brake below that. I tend to think that he knows what he is tallking about. Crazy.gif

Oh, and if you're feeling over studly, come on up and ski the course. We'll see who's feeble. Tongue.gif

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Malibudude
I'm probably between 200-205Lbs, you feeble little dude Tongue.gif .  I've taken off the small fin on the rear fyi.

Feeble? :( I'm not quite that old yet. Biggrin.gif

Bob LaPointe recommended putting the foil on the fin once you are skiing above 32 mph. He said that you just don't need a brake below that. I tend to think that he knows what he is tallking about. Crazy.gif

Oh, and if you're feeling over studly, come on up and ski the course. We'll see who's feeble. Tongue.gif

Well since I'm not above 32 mph I'll leave it off, yes I'm pretty sure Bob knows what he is talking about :)

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Who's interested in technical talk about the wing?

I rode and CR7 through 38 off without a wing as that ski was better without a wing on it. I contest how Bob's statement applies to modern skiing and skis. I don't think that theory works anymore.

The wing applies a downward force on the tail of the ski, that's all it does. It should be used more for keeping your tail from blowing out when turning very sharply. If your tail isn't blowing out you should seriously reconsider using it. The premise of Bob's was that at 28 off skiers started turning harder and "back in the day" the fiberglass skis were made with a very stiff flex pattern to get any kind of speed cross course. That's simply not true of todays full carbon skis.

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martho

FYI: The S8 had 9 deg of wing upside down. I took the wing off the burner this summer and never put it back on the ski. If that throws a loop into anything.

Furthermore, I went out Sat and skied very poorly.

In my eyes, I am over turning at 2 or 4 and either a) falling backward after a big turn or B) going cross course and then practically stalling before I get to 3/5 as I have all day to wait. Another thing, at 34mph, I had some pulls that generated so much speed, I ended up letting go of the rope and going 100' + beyond the balls.

I can't wait to figure out how to generate all this cross course speed, only to have to get rid of it to turn.... Oh, the joys of trying to improve.

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That's a good problem to have. Try thinking about your edge change just past the second wake. You can still carry your direction and speed outbound on your inside edge. I practice releasing myself from the boat as soon as possible and getting on that inside edge ASAP. That slows me down a little and as long as I don't jump on the front of the ski (which I tend to do), I can carry the speed and direction outward.

Remember at 34 MPH you don't have to pull as hard or as long as 32. Snap that edge change just after the second wake, stay centered and balanced and just relax and wait to initiate the full turn. Mapple actually snaps the edge change and sits back on his ski just after the second wake (I've worn out the DVD).

Also, try running a few sets at 33 MPH before you go to 34. If you have Perfect Pass, bump the R factor. You may already be doing this, but I find it helps me to move up in smaller increments (speed wise) rather than drop back in rope length and bump the speed. In other words, I would stay at 28 or 32 off and bump my speed by one MPH until I was comfortable and then bump the speed again.

Maybe some new thoughts that may help. The early edge change thought helped me a ton with the speed demon.

Just like any other sport, don't get too many thoughts in your mind. Focus on one or two things like good position out of the turn and a good edge change.

Let us know how you are doing.

Later,

Rip

Another thing, at 34mph, I had some pulls that generated so much speed, I ended up letting go of the rope and going 100' + beyond the balls.   

I can't wait to figure out how to generate all this cross course speed, only to have to get rid of it to turn....  Oh, the joys of trying to improve.

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In my eyes, I am over turning at 2 or 4 and either a) falling backward after a big turn or B) going cross course and then practically stalling before I get to 3/5 as I have all day to wait.    Another thing, at 34mph, I had some pulls that generated so much speed, I ended up letting go of the rope and going 100' + beyond the balls.

First, try to control the release of your reach. Make an edge change and then ride that for a moment. During this moment your ski will swing wider, then start reaching as you need to make up the distance between the arc of the ski and the boat moving down course.

Reaching out quickly tells the ski to turn hard and you may not having boat there to pick you up- falling back. Or your tmiing may be such that the boat picks you up before fall all the way back, now you've got some serious lean and if you hold it you get launched.

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martho

All those people want to be part of the clinic, but still no others in this thread. I guess I am going to take all the posts to PM's so not to use the bandwidth since it is all about me. Tongue.gif

common peeps, put up some photos.

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obski
All those people want to be part of the clinic, but still no others in this thread.  I guess I am going to take all the posts to PM's so not to use the bandwidth since it is all about me.  Tongue.gif

common peeps, put up some photos.

Others, including myself, learn from these discussions, even if they are about you.

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billb

OK, Martho, I'm caving to your request. I've got video of a couple of passes that I put together in one wmv file. The problem is that it's 11Mb and I don't know how to get it to you guys. The first one will show you what I mean when I say that my usual crew is videographically challenged. Of course, I have my own set of challenges that are exposed in the video.

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martho

you can email me the vid footer99 at vx5 dot com

Gotta prevent that spam Crazy.gif

I will post/host it

Edited by martho

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I fowarded an article with pictures to Wakegril and she is going to post it somewhere around here in the next couple days. I think it should bring light to some of the discussion here, at least that's my hope.

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HRemington

there, Jack...you satisfied? I got skisix to post for me. Biggrin.gif

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martho

NEW vid

BILL

BTW: in that second run your driver is not helping you at all. The propwash is like watching a military brigade walk. left, right, left, right. While, he is between the balls, it sure isnt in the middle. I think he ran over port side gates, then nearly ran over starboard side two boat lane ball, and then again on starboard side boat lane ball at 6. At our level of skiing, it sure doesnt make that much difference, however that boat is all over the boat lane. Haven't we all learned something since Parrish 2 @ 43' ROFL.gif I think the judges might call boat lane deviation on that full pass ROFL.gifROFL.gifROFL.gif

EDIT***

Can you give us boat speeds and rope length. I cant tell if that is a red section in the second video. It looks black, but I just cant tell

Edited by martho

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martho

Bill's vid is up and ready to go. Thanks for getting it to me.

One video posted.... Who's next?????

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Nice improvement July to Sept!

Looks like it is time to bump the speed-you need to get out of the water a bit. Based on the vid, work on your gate. Its really hard to make up angle right from ball 1. Pull out wide to the gates and work on timing. Pull out and watch for 2,4 and 6 balls to line up and try to go beyond that point. You are a little flat on your off side wake crossing, that's why you get that shot of water in the face at the first wake. But that is to be expected as you improve (off-side). Try to hold your position right through the second wake. In July you were steering with your head and in September you were in much better position. Try to think about keeping your eyes parallel with the horizon-that will help keep your head up.

Great Job!

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HRemington

great job Bill and Mark...now for skisix's commentary. That's right about where I am.

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