Jump to content

 

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

Sign in to follow this  
martho

The Slalom Course

Recommended Posts

martho

This is the support topic for the article The Slalom Course. Please post here if you have any questions or feedback.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great work!

I remember the transitions from 15 off to 22 off and 22 to 28 off being the most difficult. Even today, I think 22 off is harder for me than 28 off. I think it is because it takes a lot more energy to pull across the wakes at 22 off. At 28 off things start to happen much quicker.

I think you will advance quickly once you get past the 22 off pass.

Keep us posted as you progress. We can live vicariously through your late season skiing. Biggrin.gif

Edited by [email protected]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
martho
Is there some movement afoot to silence the swami?

This is for those behind the scenes who think having a super fast, high end ski and skiing 30-32mph is the way to go. I did that and lost a large part of the season stalling and going OTF at 1 ball. Hopefully, those doubters can learn from my wasted 4 months of skiing with no progress.

Edited by martho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
M3Fan

This begs the question- How did people get good at slalom before shaped skis then? I skied the burner and it felt more on top of the water than my CDX. Granted it is a 68 and I weigh a few pounds less than M. It was really odd feeling. When the nice 32mph pass happens on the CDX (a bit of a rarity admittedly) it is because I know I hammered it through the gates. The ski just swings right around the ball. Most of my 1 ball baffles are bad gate shots. Going to a wider ski would probably increase the sweet spot tolerance so a not so good gate would result in a decent turn still. I donno. That ski just felt really funny and uncomfortable.

Edited by M3Fan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
martho
OK Martho, my hat is off to you. I don't know how you did it. I went out with my X5 and the Charger (the 69" version of your Burner) that I keep for guests. I progressed from a Charger to a CDX to a Phantom Truth in 2 seasons. My theory was ski 30-32mph on a super fast high-end ski as soon as I could stand up on one and work my way up to 36mph. That was until I read about your experience. I own a Charger and was willing to try it. There is a lot to be said for those high end ski's light weight, edge designs, side cut and rocker. Shaped entry level skis like the Charger have nothing on the sides to hang on to. I could no more get into the course on that ski than fly backwards. I'm back to my original theory. Get on a high end ski as soon as you have the balance to stand up on it. If you're getting around buoys on a Burner after coming off the System 8 you are the man.

We are down to driver/skier at this time of the year so I cant get any pix/vid tomorrow.

When I ski on the 67" Burner, it just doesnt dive into the water like the S8 did. My Burner stays on top of the water and finishes the turn. The ski is pointing cross course and I dont have to rip it to get across course in time for the next ball. As I round the ball, the ski is already pointing across course and not dug into the water so deep that I stop. Without having the slack pop out of the line and yank me, I just cruise over to the next ball.

I understand what you are saying. It took me 3 times out on the burner to keep from washing it out. I thought I had to ride it like the S8 where it was turn and burn. I started going out and just riding it without all the monster turns and crazy pulling. skisix told me I just dont have to pull like this at 15' 32mph.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Toby

one quick question that i can not recall being talked about earlier in the previous topic, and sorry if it was but, how much wing angle were you running on the S8, if at all?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
martho

Whatever the standard set up was from the factory. I think it was 9 deg up side down, but I dont recall

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
billb

GT, did you move the fin on your wide-body all the way forward? That makes a big difference in the way the ski turns. After getting back to a skinny ski a couple of years ago, any time I'd jump on my wide-body was, as you said, unfulfilling. That ski was like a barge. Then, this fall, I ripped my boot on my good ski and had to go back to the wide-body (KD Apex). I decided to go ahead and move the fin all the way forward and convinced myself to do nothing but work on improving my horrible technique. We eventually made our way to the course and I was amazed at how easily I ran a few passes. Of course, I didn't have my regular ski to compare to and my technique MAY have been a bit better, but I was still very surprised at what a difference I felt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please explain "no edge" The X5 is a radiused bevel and you have demonstrated that it can turn and hold angle. Granted, a wider ski is going to take more effort to roll onto turning edge after the second wake, the payoff after that is that the tip of ski will stay up a little better, not "dive" as earlier referenced and the ski will maintain more lift through out the turn. I thought you said you liked that feature about the X5.

It may be the difference in speeds you two are traveling and the weights on the ski versus ski size.

Disclaimer: I have never riden one of those skis.

Maybe it's my expectations that need adjusting. I rode a Charger when I first started skiing (late 2003). I was at an experience level that caused me to miss 3 of every 5 starts and stare at the wakes during the crossing. The ski seemed very stable and suited my needs. By spring 2004 I switched to the CDX and found out what an edge was for. My theory was get on a super fast super performance ski as soon as humanly possible to continue raising my game. I had no idea that the Charger and it's peers (Magnum, Burner, Venture, etc) had no edge until yesterday. The CDX, Phantom Truth, Monza, S8 and all their peers have a distinct edge that you can feel and really lay in to. When I look at the pics you are posting (excellent pics by the way, I need to hire your photog) I see a guy who definitely should be on a high performance ski but could also use a day with a fin doctor. Offside turn set up. The ski is slow around the corner offside. April spent 2 sessions trying to teach me the difference between riding the back half of the ski and "pushing on the tail". When I push on the tail, the ski resists everything I do. It's my M.O. on the CDX. The Phantom is faster so I don't do it as much.

My guess is that you have more natural balance than I do because going back to a Comp-Freeride after investing myself into CDX/Phantom/X5 etc was, well... unfulfilling.

I went from cutting with a scalpel to cutting with a dessert spoon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
martho

Howdy!

Well, 830am today, I went out with one goal in mind. I said I was gonna pull through the wakes and generate some speed cross course.

I ran my 32mph pass and then dropped in the hole. We bumped to 34mph(remember this is a non PP boat, but close from GPS and RPM readings. cold water may play a bit of a factor, too) and I ran the pass relatively without issue.

The water was choppy due to a stiff 16mph breeze, but the course is somewhat sheltered, so the water was choppy, but not 16mph wind rollers.

On several occassions, I remember thinking about where the ski was pointing when I finished my turns going to 2 - 4 - 6. In the pass at 34mph, the ski was pointing across course much better than in those photos above. Furthermore, there was no YANK as the rope came tight. Whether its right or wrong, I dont know, however I remember being able to see my turn finish and see spray going forward at the end of the turn, as I looked toward the boat. Look at the pic in post #10, and there is zero spray between me and the boat. Skisix, correct me if I am wrong, but this means the ski finished the turn and was on edge ready to pull to the wakes spraying water in front of me?????????????

I only took 5 passes thru the course today due to a time constraint and water conditions. I had 3 full passes, one fall and an issue pass(boat speed...not driver's fault) I just wanted to see if everything I mentioned in previous posts was still occurring or if it was a fluke. I hope to have vid this Sat morning and take the RLX with PP for some accuracy and vids to go with all my posts :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCaliBu

Which ski were you on? S8, I assume?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
martho

HO 67" burner. Venom front RTP RFF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
NorCaliBu

I had heard that those skis were capable of 34 mph passes....I guess I thought it was just marketing hype. Impressive. Congrats, it sounds like you're making real progress.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Furthermore, there was no YANK as the rope came tight.  Whether its right or wrong, I dont know, however I remember being able to see my turn finish and see spray going forward at the end of the turn, as I looked toward the boat.  Look at the pic in post #10, and there is zero spray between me and the boat.  Skisix, correct me if I am wrong, but this means the ski finished the turn and was on edge ready to pull to the wakes spraying water in front of me?????????????

I don't understand your question here. In post #10, the picture shows you loaded from the boat and the ski is pointing straight at the boat, parellel to the line of the rope. Ideally, the skier should have the ski and hips pointed cross course at the point where the boat starts to load you. I made some mention of that in the "nooner" thread with some pics showing GT at about the same position. To have the boat load you up WHILE you are trying to establish your angle into the next ball creates a lot of acceleration but no angle.

So, Martho, are you saying that in todays set you were finished with your turn and then the load from the boat got you and that you didn't take a hit from the slack?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
martho

What I am saying is the ski finished and the rope was tight. There was no yank and the ski was pointing cross course, not at the boat. As I got ready for the pull coming out of the turn, I could see spray shooting forward(down course) in the direction of the boat. I remember it, very clearly, as I have never seen that before. I made me think, "Does this mean the ski finished its turn and it pointing cross course?" If the ski is pointing at the boat, even if there is edge, the spray would be going out toward the ball line, not forward. That is my question to you, Master of 39.5 :)

I also remember seeing the ski, too. Another first in a 2/4/6 turn.

I have been thinking about this for a few weeks. I hope everyone understands I am thrilled to be the example. If I had a complex about my level of skiing or I was a poster who always commented about my abilities, and then showed these pix, it could be ugly. However, I am happy to let everyone know my skill level or lack thereof, for the benefit of the group. Most importanly, it is helping me. Let's face it, we are all in this for ourselves to get better.

Edited by martho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, that's the ticket! The way you described it, all you have to do is keep your body tight against the load of the boat and resist the boats load of pulling you forward and off edge. That should feel "easier" and after the set your body should feel not as worked. Marcus Brown and west coast slalom calls that "efficiency of motion".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Chef23
I had heard that those skis were capable of 34 mph passes....I guess I thought it was just marketing hype.  Impressive.  Congrats, it sounds like you're making real progress.

I ran 5 @28 off at 34mph numerous times this summer on the 69" version of that ski the Charger. It definitely can handle the course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
martho

I can give you all the set up #'s on the S8 for this discussion. I like the point/counterpoint setting we are in here. I think many people can learn from all of this!

Bindings neutral

I will go out to the garage later and get the 3 measurements with the caliper.

BTW: since this thread is all about me Tongue.gif , here are a couple more "analysis" pix from Aug - Early Sept on the S8

post-77-1131044760_thumb.jpg

Edited by martho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
martho

More pix thanks to M3Fan

BTW: Picture 4 tells my entire story. Gotta pull TO the whitewash, not be flat at it. This is a very constant theme in my skiing pix this summer.

Edited by martho

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think he's sinking just like I think you were sinking in the photos from the nooner thread.

Why? Ultimately, his max cross course speed was not high enough to sustain enough lift through the turn bank for that turn. No fin adjustment will cure that.

So, the choices are to get more speed or carry more speed through the turn or not bank in the turn as much.

I think the whole start to this was because I said that a wider ski would provide more lift through the turn by carrying more speed after the second wake. The S8 and all HP skis are designed to settle in the water and start turning when the edge changes from "away from the boat" to "towards the boat".

I agree that in this picture there is a lot of ski out of the water and it takes much more effort to accelerate with less ski. Which do you work on first? Positioning on the ski while never getting free from the boat or getting free from boat so you can be in position? I don't know, what I do know is that every skier that is getting thru 28 at 34 mph has learned how to get into position and get free of the boat.

Now I think this poor guy is suffering under a bad set-up. The ski is slow exiting his off-side turn. I believe that with a combination of exaggerated hips-up and an adjustment to his set-up to make the ski a little faster:

Decrease wing angle

Decrease tip

Increase fin depth

Move the fin forward

This problem goes away.

What do you think?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was starting to get the impression that the topic was getting warmer and was starting to think of an exit strategy since the topic title bears my name. If you guys are feeling good about it and are learning, I will continue to repsond.

I am fully aware that I can go from hero to zero in one or two posts though- I don't want that to happen.

It would be nice to have somplace to post multiple pictures in a strip and mark them up to demonstrate different points and ideas. I'll work on that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
martho

I am aware of my position issues. I dont think I want someone to have access to a marker and my picture. Its kinda like the red pen in high school. If there is minimal red pen, you know you have done well. However, I probably wont even be able to see myself anymore with all the red pen on these position pictures. ROFL.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
martho

Will someone else please put some pix up so we can have something to compare?

I think it would be great to more people in the mix as we all stand to learn. There were dozens of people interested in Skisix's clinics. There should be dozens of people with photos for us to review and from which to potentially learn.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
M3Fan

Wow, that' boat's got a nice wake. Who's is it :blush: Let me find a decent gallery of my blunders for comparison.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...