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Fogging engine with new air intake?


arsenuts411

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I was wondering how you fog the engine witht he new intake system. Do I just take the air filter off and start spraying the fogging oil in there? Also no fogging oil in the spark plugs right? One last question should i put the air filter back on once I am done?

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also interested in this one as I have a monsoon with the cats and the manual suggests not to fog due to the cats, but talking with a friend at the factory it is ok to do it. So I'm curious what others are doing and if they're spraying fog where they are doing it. thanks

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I don't have cats or the "new intake system", and I fog directly into the cylinders. Pull the plugs, give each cylinder a squirt or two, turn the motor over 'slowly', squirt all 8 again, turn it over again, install new plugs, done. As with fogging through the throttle body....don't lose the little red straw into the hole.

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also interested in this one as I have a monsoon with the cats and the manual suggests not to fog due to the cats, but talking with a friend at the factory it is ok to do it. So I'm curious what others are doing and if they're spraying fog where they are doing it. thanks

that is really bad advice from your friend at the factory, unless it is indmar's factory and you have his name, date he told you this and knowledge that his is qualified to give out that kind of recommendation.

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The key to fogging the engine is to keep the critical internal parts from rusting over an extended period of non use. The key areas that will rust or corrode include the cylinder walls and valves (the machined portion that hits the valve seat). The rest of the components will be fine as long as no significant moisture is introduced. The other element is how many freeze / thaw cycles might happen as this creates moisture with big swings.

I always pull the plugs and fog in the cylinders and make sure I get fogging oil down in the intake system to catch the valve seats. I think the reality of an extended period of non action will not hurt the cats as much of any damaging oil will not contaminate the cats on start up after a long winter. The oil will pretty much have dried by that point and the percentage of oil to fuel will be pretty small. I am pretty sure that blowby levels are higher than fogging oil levels, remember a marine engine is required to injest all the blowby through the intake manifold and send it out the exhaust. And as suggested, don't lose the little red stray down the intake or shoot it in to one of the cylinders if you fog the cylinders, you'll have 8 changes to do it!

I certainly don't suggest going against the Indmar manual, so if it says not to fog, that is probably the smart approach.

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also interested in this one as I have a monsoon with the cats and the manual suggests not to fog due to the cats, but talking with a friend at the factory it is ok to do it. So I'm curious what others are doing and if they're spraying fog where they are doing it. thanks

I just talked to my dealer a couple of days ago, Bakes, and they said do not fog the Monsoon through the throttle body, you will mess up the emissions controls / sensor. Fog through the cylinder. But the winterization guide, pre-cats, says fog through the intake.

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is this correct.

1) pull the spark plugs out

2) spray fogging oil in the spark plug hole (1 to 2 good squirts)

3) turn engine over ( for how long seconds a minute?) (with the plugs out or back in ?)

4) spray in the spark plug hole again ( do you crank over again?)

5) install new plugs

The thing that I am unsure of is spraying it in the intake do I still need to do that or should the steps that I listed above be fine to accomplish the engine fogging? I am going to have to take a look in the manual to see where exactly the throttle body is.

Anything else that is recommended?

Also after this is done I assume that all is left to really do is drain all the water from all the spots mentioned in that pdf that was floating around?

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I don't have cats or the "new intake system", and I fog directly into the cylinders. Pull the plugs, give each cylinder a squirt or two, turn the motor over 'slowly', squirt all 8 again, turn it over again, install new plugs, done. As with fogging through the throttle body....don't lose the little red straw into the hole.

Ok, this sounds like the best method, so how do you turn it over slowly?

thanks

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I don't have cats or the "new intake system", and I fog directly into the cylinders. Pull the plugs, give each cylinder a squirt or two, turn the motor over 'slowly', squirt all 8 again, turn it over again, install new plugs, done. As with fogging through the throttle body....don't lose the little red straw into the hole.

Ok, this sounds like the best method, so how do you turn it over slowly?

thanks

Depending on how tight the motor is, when the plugs are out sometimes you can just turn it by hand using the front pulley. I've also done this when I forget and pull my batteries before I'm done with everything. Otherwise bump the key switch a couple times just enough to get the motor to turn. Reason for this is not all 8 pistons can be down at the same time, so it gives you a chance to better fog all the cylinders. Only reason I try to do it slow is experience has shown that you can blow your fogging oil right back out the spark plug hole and onto the locker carpet you just cleaned. :Doh: But there really is no technical reason for slowly turning it over.

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is this correct.

1) pull the spark plugs out - Yes

2) spray fogging oil in the spark plug hole (1 to 2 good squirts) - Yes two

3) turn engine over ( for how long seconds a minute?) (with the plugs out or back in ?) - Plugs in - CCoil wire DISCONNECTED - Watch the pulley tirn two times or more

4) spray in the spark plug hole again ( do you crank over again?) - NO

5) install new plugs - No - use the old ones - install new ones next spring after you prerun and burn out everything.

6.) Turn the rudder to the left to help save the cable

The thing that I am unsure of is spraying it in the intake do I still need to do that or should the steps that I listed above be fine to accomplish the engine fogging? I am going to have to take a look in the manual to see where exactly the throttle body is.

Anything else that is recommended?

Also after this is done I assume that all is left to really do is drain all the water from all the spots mentioned in that pdf that was floating around?

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that little bit of oil would never hurt any kind of cat conv.

I agree. I'm more concerned about the carbon build up in the CAT, than traces of fogging oil.

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I just fogged my engine through the throttle plate with the CRC fogging oil and I have a monsoon. Guess we will see in the spring what it does. If they are that worried about the oil getting on a sensor in the intake why do they use a K7N air filter that gets oiled?? Some oil from that gets pulled into the intake and would end up on the sensor anyways.

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first off I have no idea about cats, but I don't see how that affects anything, and if so very very little. the oil is lighter than motor oil, but has a longer shelf life and "ceeps" better than regular motor oil

fogging on a 4 stroke is not as serious as a 2 stroke though.

you should have clean oil in it, as the bottom end is covered in oil already...

you should however fog through the intake to make sure it doesn't varnish; carb or mpi and all the internal engine components are coated with oil

if you only spray through the holes not a whole lot is going to get past the rings.

think about that..

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first off I have no idea about cats, but I don't see how that affects anything, and if so very very little. the oil is lighter than motor oil, but has a longer shelf life and "ceeps" better than regular motor oil

fogging on a 4 stroke is not as serious as a 2 stroke though.

you should have clean oil in it, as the bottom end is covered in oil already...

you should however fog through the intake to make sure it doesn't varnish; carb or mpi and all the internal engine components are coated with oil

if you only spray through the holes not a whole lot is going to get past the rings.

think about that..

I'm thinking about what you said.....and you lost me. Are you saying more oil will get past the rings if you fog through the intake? In a 4 stroke? How? And I need help understanding what will "varnish". The purpose of fog oil is to coat the cylinder walls to prevent a thin layer of surface rust that could potentially form during extended lay-ups. The most direct way to the cylinder is through the plug hole. I can't come up with anything else inside the motor that would benefit from fogging. Everybody does it different though so if your process works for you then you should keep doing that. I'm just skeptical of your claims that fogging through the plug hole is bad for some reason.

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first off I have no idea about cats, but I don't see how that affects anything, and if so very very little. the oil is lighter than motor oil, but has a longer shelf life and "ceeps" better than regular motor oil

fogging on a 4 stroke is not as serious as a 2 stroke though.

you should have clean oil in it, as the bottom end is covered in oil already...

you should however fog through the intake to make sure it doesn't varnish; carb or mpi and all the internal engine components are coated with oil

if you only spray through the holes not a whole lot is going to get past the rings.

think about that..

I'm thinking about what you said.....and you lost me. Are you saying more oil will get past the rings if you fog through the intake? In a 4 stroke? How? And I need help understanding what will "varnish". The purpose of fog oil is to coat the cylinder walls to prevent a thin layer of surface rust that could potentially form during extended lay-ups. The most direct way to the cylinder is through the plug hole. I can't come up with anything else inside the motor that would benefit from fogging. Everybody does it different though so if your process works for you then you should keep doing that. I'm just skeptical of your claims that fogging through the plug hole is bad for some reason.

its not bad, its just not very effective!

actually fogging oil is not used predominanty to coat the cylinder walls & they wont rust out either if you don't fog the motor. It should be used to coat the bearings and crank, but not so much on a 4 stroke as the crank and bearings are coated in oil, again assuming you have fresh oil in it!!! however, with the engine cold the oil naturally sits in the bottom of the pan, so parts of the crank may be exposed, but unless its on lay up for a long time (years) it shouldn't be a problem.

"varnish" occurs when gasoline goes bad. the gas turns to varnish, literally... you can tell because if you've ever had gas go bad IT SMELLS LIKE VARNISH

untreated gas will sit in the carb/throttle bodies/injectors and coat it with... VARNISH. over time that varnish will turn to a solid state and gums up. also a reason to use a seafoam and/or stabil product to prevent the gas from going to varnish.

you spraying fogging oil into the plug hole is getting very little if any of the oil past the rings.

if you spray fogging oil as directed in the indmar manual through the intake until you see/smell a change in exhaust smoke then the fogging oil has gone through EVERY PART of the motor, and since the motor is running and heated up (re: piston/ring/cylinder expanded) the mixture (now containing fogging oil) passes through the entire engine, coating it in fogging oil.

this is very basic info

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I just went through the manual ( Indmar) and it clearly states DO NOT fog the 340 Monsoon with the catalytic converter. I even called my dealer to verify this. BTW the dealer does not use fogging oil at all on these engines, not even through the spark plug holes.

Since my boat will be sitting for 4-5 months in a very cold and dry place, I will skip the fogging part. I do not see how any air will make it through the intake to the cylinders and leave any moisture there, but of course I might be wrong

BB

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I just went through the manual ( Indmar) and it clearly states DO NOT fog the 340 Monsoon with the catalytic converter. I even called my dealer to verify this. BTW the dealer does not use fogging oil at all on these engines, not even through the spark plug holes.

Since my boat will be sitting for 4-5 months in a very cold and dry place, I will skip the fogging part. I do not see how any air will make it through the intake to the cylinders and leave any moisture there, but of course I might be wrong

BB

just make sure to treat the gas, then syphon it in the spring.

I've only ever fogged carb engines.

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actually fogging oil is not used predominanty to coat the cylinder walls & they wont rust out either if you don't fog the motor. It should be used to coat the bearings and crank, but not so much on a 4 stroke as the crank and bearings are coated in oil, again assuming you have fresh oil in it!!! however, with the engine cold the oil naturally sits in the bottom of the pan, so parts of the crank may be exposed, but unless its on lay up for a long time (years) it shouldn't be a problem.

"varnish" occurs when gasoline goes bad. the gas turns to varnish, literally... you can tell because if you've ever had gas go bad IT SMELLS LIKE VARNISH

untreated gas will sit in the carb/throttle bodies/injectors and coat it with... VARNISH. over time that varnish will turn to a solid state and gums up. also a reason to use a seafoam and/or stabil product to prevent the gas from going to varnish.

you spraying fogging oil into the plug hole is getting very little if any of the oil past the rings.

if you spray fogging oil as directed in the indmar manual through the intake until you see/smell a change in exhaust smoke then the fogging oil has gone through EVERY PART of the motor, and since the motor is running and heated up (re: piston/ring/cylinder expanded) the mixture (now containing fogging oil) passes through the entire engine, coating it in fogging oil.

this is very basic info

I hope this doesn't come across as argumentative, but I have to disagree with what you are saying. Fuel will varnish, I agree with that, but that's why you put Stabilizer in the tank and run the motor afterward . This thread is about fogging so I wasn't going to go there. When you fog a 2 stroke motor through the carbs, yes, the fog oil gets to the bearings, rods, crank etc. because a typical 2 stroke gets it's lubrication through the fuel. If you have fog oil getting into the rotating assembly of your 4 stroke Indmar motor, you need a rebuild. The only way would be through the rings and you would have no compression and the motor wouldn't run. When you see it out of the exhaust....that's just the byproduct of the oil burning out of the cylinders. It has nothing to do with coating the crank, rods, etc.

You actually don't need oil "past the rings". Surface rust is caused by exposure to moist air. If the bottom end of your motor is sealed up like its supposed to be, your crank/rods won't rust. If you took the oil pan off and let it sit....different story. Why fog the cylinders then? At any given time when a motor is sitting some of the intake/exhaust valves will be fully or partially open. You just can't have them all closed at the same time because that's not how a motor works. This does give ambient air a direct path into the cylinders on both the intake and exhaust sides. With air comes moisture. And especially on a marine engines with wet exhaust (water and/or antifreeze sitting in mufflers, hoses, etc), I fog.

That's how I see it. Sorry to contradict, but I think you are putting bad info out there, no matter how basic you may think it is. My position is you don't need oil past the rings, and spraying through the throttle body won't get it there anyway.

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Why syphon in the spring?

even though its treated its not "fresh" gas.. today's oxygenated fuels have a very short shelf life (some say 1 month before deterioration)

its a high performance motor, why not syphon and put it in your car that burns 10x the fuel and is likely more efficient.

also, over the winter condensation will build up in the tank.

I personally don't top up the tank, I drain the gas because you will never fill the tank completely and why run 1 full tank of old gas in the spring??

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Per the Indmar Manual: Regarding Fogging and Catalytic Converter-Equipped Engines

In catalytic converter-equipped engines, Indmar does not recommend applying foggin oil while the engine is running. The fogging oil could damage the catalytic converter. The cylinders can be protected by removing the spark plugs and applying the fogging oil directly into the cylinders.

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that little bit of oil would never hurt any kind of cat conv.

I agree. I'm more concerned about the carbon build up in the CAT, than traces of fogging oil.

Sorry to disagree but I worked on catalysts for a few years and know that the leading cause of catalyst failure (aka catalyst poisoning) is engine oil that goes out through the exhaust. So, to be correct fogging oil (like engine oil) will hurt the catalytic converters which is why I am very glad that my Hammerhead doesn't burn oil as many do. On the other hand, the built up carbon (if it is from fuel and not engine oil) will burn off the catalysts with little or no damage to the catalysts.

Basically, the metals in the oil additive packages plug reactive sites on the catalyst, thereby reducing the catalyst's ability to reduce Hydrocarbons, CO, and NOx into H2O, CO2, N2, and O2. Spraying raw oil onto the catalysts (ie fogging) is worse than oil that is burnt in the combustion process where the resultant gasses and particulats have more of a chance to pass through the catalyst without plugging an active site than raw oil sprayed into the exhaust. To be honest I am a bit surprised that the fogging and the subsequent re-comissioning process doesn't require the removal of the catalysts for the first 30 - 40 minutes of operation. I guess that, when most of these boats get very few hours per year and the fact that there aren't emissions compliance tests, it is likely that the resultant catalyst failues won't happen or be noticed for many years if you follow the Indmar manual and fog without the engine running and don't have excessive oil consumption.

Edited by Matt_Alger
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