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larger hard tanks verus soft 750s in 08 VLX


surferbobo

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I just purchased a 08 VLX and I'm unhappy with the stock wakesurfing wake. I have spend the last 2 hours reading all the posts of how to plumb in the fac sacs to the built in hard tanks. I had a 99 VLX and put in very large hard tanks (basically filled the whole compartment). This system worked great. I have not read about anyone taking out the stock hard tanks and getting custom made hard tanks to fill the whole compartment. You could use the stock pumps and hoses (maybe some need to be extended). The down side is you use up all the storage and you need to take them out to get the boat serviced. I had a real crazy idea today of taking the stock hard tanks out and taking them to the hard tank manufacturer and ask if they could cut them in half and weld in thick hard plastic sides about 14 inches high - that way you could use the all fittings and they would drop right in.

Another crazy thought is why doesn't Malibu develop a wakeboard boat that can be used for wakesurfing (seems like alot of people are doing that more than wakeboarding now) that doesn't need all this extra weight stuff.

Another little rant is why does the best Wakeboard boat in the world say that you can only put 75lbs in the back and it is not intended for ballast - you would think that the best wakeboarding boat would be built to take a ton of weight because this seems to be what everyone does.

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Most people who surf use additional ballast and if truth be told, they exceed the USCG capacity limits on the boat. Malibu (or any manufacturer) cannot provide ballast tanks that exceed USCG capacity limits.

Unfortunately in most places the boat cops could shut down surfing simply by writing tickets for over weighted boats and for people sitting on the back of the boat while under power.

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I agree with Matt ... Malibu simply can't sell a boat with ballast that will even come close to the weight maximums. With that said, I do think that somebody needs to come out with a boat that will naturally put out a better surf wake without as much ballast. I don't understand hydrodynamics, so maybe it can't be done. Centurion's the only boat manufacturer that I know of that markets their boat as a wakesurf boat.

On to the hard tank/soft tank debate. I think the Fat sacs are the way to go. I wouldn't want hard tanks. The bags are sturdy, and when they're empty, you still have storage space. That way, you can still stuff your wakeboards, surfboards, life jackets, etc, back there when you hit the road. And, like you said, when it comes time to change the oil or other basic maintenance, it's not a pain to get to the sides of the engine.

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One of the great things about the VLX is that it is a world class wakeboard boat that happens to perform well for wakesurfing. That's the aim with this boat, not the other way around (& if you read up on some of the other manufacturers, most surf specific boats don't measure up as well the other way around). As others have stated, the ballast issue is legit - the only manufacturer that I can think of that includes the built in ballast weight within the coast guard plate's limit is Correct Craft. If all you want to do is surf, other manufacturers appear to have Malibu beaten in that regard. But if you want a great wakeboarding & wakesurfing wake, Malibu vdrives are really tough to beat.

As far as the hard tank issue goes, the other issue that hasn't been brought up is the gauge issue. I don't rely on the gauges that much for the rear tanks, but if I had an uber-large tank back there then I would definitely want that. Again, if you're only surfing then you'd always want it full & I guess then it's a non-issue. But for wakeboarding, you'd almost never want it full since usually just the stock tank size is really good for the rear (Malibu vdrives tend to want additional weight up front for wakeboarding, not in the rear). Other than that & the storage issue, I can't think of another reason that it would be a bad idea.

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One of the great things about the VLX is that it is a world class wakeboard boat that happens to perform well for wakesurfing. That's the aim with this boat, not the other way around (& if you read up on some of the other manufacturers, most surf specific boats don't measure up as well the other way around). As others have stated, the ballast issue is legit - the only manufacturer that I can think of that includes the built in ballast weight within the coast guard plate's limit is Correct Craft. If all you want to do is surf, other manufacturers appear to have Malibu beaten in that regard. But if you want a great wakeboarding & wakesurfing wake, Malibu vdrives are really tough to beat.

As far as the hard tank issue goes, the other issue that hasn't been brought up is the gauge issue. I don't rely on the gauges that much for the rear tanks, but if I had an uber-large tank back there then I would definitely want that. Again, if you're only surfing then you'd always want it full & I guess then it's a non-issue. But for wakeboarding, you'd almost never want it full since usually just the stock tank size is really good for the rear (Malibu vdrives tend to want additional weight up front for wakeboarding, not in the rear). Other than that & the storage issue, I can't think of another reason that it would be a bad idea.

I agree with the wakeboarding comment. We were out today and everyone agreed that the wakeboarding wake is awesome. Now just need to dial in the surf wake. I thought today about the hard tanks and gauges. I am not sure how the 08 VLX gauge works in the hard tank. As I mentioned in another post I love the presets because they shut off the pumps automatically. Ideally I would like to find a way to use the stock guage in the new uber large hard tanks so we could fill them 1/3 full for wakeboarding and right full for surfing and the presets would recognize them. I am not sure how to attach pics on this site but I have pics of my hard tanks in my 99 VLX. My biggest concern with the soft bags is that they might get a puncture with all the stuff thrown on top of them or they might explode if filled too much.

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Hmmm, well I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't had the same thought process. But in the interest of laziness as well as wanting to keep some storage back there, I never tried it. Have you looked at the Pro X bags? They're much heavier duty than the traditional bags that are more like waterbed material. I've been using them for 3 years in my boat with no problems - they're very durable & while we're careful about putting anything sharp back there, we don't have any qualms about piling all of the normal gear in on top. Since we only use them for surfing, I didn't feel the need for gauges since you have a way of visually checking them. Anyway, it might be worth looking at.

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Hmmm, well I'd be lying if I said that I hadn't had the same thought process. But in the interest of laziness as well as wanting to keep some storage back there, I never tried it. Have you looked at the Pro X bags? They're much heavier duty than the traditional bags that are more like waterbed material. I've been using them for 3 years in my boat with no problems - they're very durable & while we're careful about putting anything sharp back there, we don't have any qualms about piling all of the normal gear in on top. Since we only use them for surfing, I didn't feel the need for gauges since you have a way of visually checking them. Anyway, it might be worth looking at.

thanks for your comments. We were out yesterday and had 500lb sac in the trunk with 2 people sitting on at the back on the passenger side (sorry I don't know what is the surf side or port side). The wake was a good size and was smooth except for the top foot that was wash. I tried moving the people around from back to front and could not get the wash to go away. Our wedge said it was a 10% but it was stuck (going back to the dealer).

I read your review of the 09 VLX and I'm seriously considering taking the 08 back to the dealer and getting an 09. I am also frustrated with the cruise control on my 08. When surfing it is always beeping saying it wants more throttle. I had prefect pass in my 99VLX and it worked perfect. Have you spend more time on your 09. How is the surf wake compared to the 08?

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I have not spent any more time on the '09, so I can't comment on how the wave compares. The only thing that I can say for certain is that you can run that boat with the wedge in the full back position & the wave will stay clean. That isn't the common belief with our hull, but I can't say that for certain since I have the free floating wedge.

I don't think that there's a measurable difference between the 2 sides. We surf goofy side & it's very good - long & clean, but I see a very similar wave on the rare occasions when we weight the other side. One thing that I've seen to be a fairly common thing on our boats is for people with the power wedge to run it in the full down position. Anything else, & the common comment is that the wave will be washy. There are some people that have success with it back a little, but it seems like more people run with if full down. I would try that first along with verifying & playing with your speed before taking more drastic measures. I've got my speedo calibrated by gps & I'm usually running about 10.4, depending on how much weight we've got in the boat. Also make sure that you've got all of the weight on the surf side. As an example, if we're surfing on the passenger side, I see a noticeable difference in how clean the wave is simply by having the driver stand & move to the center of the boat (left of the steering wheel). Just that much can make the difference.

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I have not spent any more time on the '09, so I can't comment on how the wave compares. The only thing that I can say for certain is that you can run that boat with the wedge in the full back position & the wave will stay clean. That isn't the common belief with our hull, but I can't say that for certain since I have the free floating wedge.

I don't think that there's a measurable difference between the 2 sides. We surf goofy side & it's very good - long & clean, but I see a very similar wave on the rare occasions when we weight the other side. One thing that I've seen to be a fairly common thing on our boats is for people with the power wedge to run it in the full down position. Anything else, & the common comment is that the wave will be washy. There are some people that have success with it back a little, but it seems like more people run with if full down. I would try that first along with verifying & playing with your speed before taking more drastic measures. I've got my speedo calibrated by gps & I'm usually running about 10.4, depending on how much weight we've got in the boat. Also make sure that you've got all of the weight on the surf side. As an example, if we're surfing on the passenger side, I see a noticeable difference in how clean the wave is simply by having the driver stand & move to the center of the boat (left of the steering wheel). Just that much can make the difference.

The main reason for me to look at the 09 is the comment about the wedge being clean all the way up. I surfing the other day in the 08 on the driver's side (this side is very good) and I wanted to see what different the wedge would make in different positions. I had the driver raise it as I surfed. As it was raised to it max position I could not believe the push the wave gave me (I actually came flying in over the swim platform and almost nailed the boat. I only problem is that the wave was completely wash. Can you verify that the 09 doesn't wash out the wave in the higher positions. If this is true - then it is a done deal for the 09. I am assuming that you would get the same push without the wash and could speed the boat up.

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I can't verify it with extra weight beyond the stock ballast & a few people in the boat, but with just that stock configuration it was clean. I stayed on the rope & cut out from the wave so I could watch it as he put the wedge back & I could actually see the wave get bigger, yet it was still clean. The boat was definitely more resistant to getting a good lean though, I'm not sure how that will affect things. My surf wave with the same weight in people & a bag in the trunk is much bigger though, so I'm not sure that it would really be that much better. So I'm not sure that it's worth trying to make the trade on that reason alone. Maybe, I don't know.

One thing about the power wedge. Putting it all the way back would in theory simulate more weight in the rear, which would fall right in with what you experienced with the push that it instantly gave you. Some people really like that kind of wave where it's really tall with a short pocket. But if you don't, then you'd almost have to compensate for that by putting weight up front. Just something to think about.

Dialing in a surf wave can be tricky. It took us some time to get it right, I can tell you that. But personally I haven't seen anything here or on other sites out of the same sized boat that makes me jealous. We've got this boat dialed. :)

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Yeah! Particularly if you like goofy, the RIGHT side of the boat! :lol: Seriously though, I was thinking more about the questions about the '09, & I don't honestly think that the difference will be that large when using identical ballast setups. I have to wonder what adding more weight will do to the effect of the power wedge at its full back setting. I also think that you need to play with your setup more, because I often wonder if getting a clean wave with the wedge back can be attained & how much actual testing people have done in trying to get that. Like I said, it took us a long time to get what we have, meaning that there were days when we went out & tested with different speeds & weight configurations with no rider at all, trying to find the cleanest, best all around wave. I suggest that it's possible that nobody has done that with a VLX/power wedge combo.

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I want a bigger surf wake. I totally understand that the manufacturer can not exceed the weight limits. Never the less, I would like to add a Fat Sack in the back locker. If I put a 750lbs in there, will it crush the floor, or the manufacturer hard tanks underneath it? If so, what is best way to shore up the floor?

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Yeah! Particularly if you like goofy, the RIGHT side of the boat! :lol: Seriously though, I was thinking more about the questions about the '09, & I don't honestly think that the difference will be that large when using identical ballast setups. I have to wonder what adding more weight will do to the effect of the power wedge at its full back setting. I also think that you need to play with your setup more, because I often wonder if getting a clean wave with the wedge back can be attained & how much actual testing people have done in trying to get that. Like I said, it took us a long time to get what we have, meaning that there were days when we went out & tested with different speeds & weight configurations with no rider at all, trying to find the cleanest, best all around wave. I suggest that it's possible that nobody has done that with a VLX/power wedge combo.

I agree that it can take alot of time to get it dialed. Another crazy thought i had surfing behind the boat the other day was is the swim platform causing some of the wash under full wedge. I noticed as the wedge is raised higher it causes the boat and platform to lower. Basically the corner of the swim platform was underwater causing some wash. On my 99 VLX I actually raised the swim platform 3 inches. This was because with my hard tanks full the swim platform was under water. Back in 2000 we had not started wakesurfing so I don't know if it made a difference. I am going to try taking the swim platform off and playing around with the wedge and weight. I will let you know.

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I want a bigger surf wake. I totally understand that the manufacturer can not exceed the weight limits. Never the less, I would like to add a Fat Sack in the back locker. If I put a 750lbs in there, will it crush the floor, or the manufacturer hard tanks underneath it? If so, what is best way to shore up the floor?

You can drive a forlift over the ballast tanks, they will not crush with 750# on them.

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That is wild, becasue I was told by the manufacturer that if too much weight was put in that back locker, the plastic hard tanks could get crushed. I was thinking of reinforcing the fllor - but I hate to expend that effort if its not necessary!

What are the biggest Sacks you guys have found that you can cram in that back locker?

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A lot of the guys on our lake are using lead. This one guy has a malibu 247 with 1200 lbs in the back. The nice thing about lead is you can remove fairly it fairly easy.

And you better be able to move it REALLY fast if you ever spring a leak... or SPLOOSH!!!

You'll be trying to make a pretty sad insurance claim... "no Mr/Ms. claims adjuster, I have no idea how an extra 1200lbs of lead got into that boat..."

Water ballast is neutral weight at the point of water level, lead however takes your Bu to the bottom... just one more thing to keep in mind... Thumbup.gif

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Yeah! Particularly if you like goofy, the RIGHT side of the boat! :lol: Seriously though, I was thinking more about the questions about the '09, & I don't honestly think that the difference will be that large when using identical ballast setups. I have to wonder what adding more weight will do to the effect of the power wedge at its full back setting. I also think that you need to play with your setup more, because I often wonder if getting a clean wave with the wedge back can be attained & how much actual testing people have done in trying to get that. Like I said, it took us a long time to get what we have, meaning that there were days when we went out & tested with different speeds & weight configurations with no rider at all, trying to find the cleanest, best all around wave. I suggest that it's possible that nobody has done that with a VLX/power wedge combo.

I agree that it can take alot of time to get it dialed. Another crazy thought i had surfing behind the boat the other day was is the swim platform causing some of the wash under full wedge. I noticed as the wedge is raised higher it causes the boat and platform to lower. Basically the corner of the swim platform was underwater causing some wash. On my 99 VLX I actually raised the swim platform 3 inches. This was because with my hard tanks full the swim platform was under water. Back in 2000 we had not started wakesurfing so I don't know if it made a difference. I am going to try taking the swim platform off and playing around with the wedge and weight. I will let you know.

Our platform is under water by a bit & the wave is clean & blue almost all the way to the top (maybe the top inch or 2 is clear). That's not the thing causing it IMO. I think that the thing to try with the power wedge is different weight configurations & locations to try to find something that will work.

Agree with Bill, you're taking a big chance with lead. Plus you've got to haul it around with you.

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Yeah! Particularly if you like goofy, the RIGHT side of the boat! :lol: Seriously though, I was thinking more about the questions about the '09, & I don't honestly think that the difference will be that large when using identical ballast setups. I have to wonder what adding more weight will do to the effect of the power wedge at its full back setting. I also think that you need to play with your setup more, because I often wonder if getting a clean wave with the wedge back can be attained & how much actual testing people have done in trying to get that. Like I said, it took us a long time to get what we have, meaning that there were days when we went out & tested with different speeds & weight configurations with no rider at all, trying to find the cleanest, best all around wave. I suggest that it's possible that nobody has done that with a VLX/power wedge combo.

I agree that it can take alot of time to get it dialed. Another crazy thought i had surfing behind the boat the other day was is the swim platform causing some of the wash under full wedge. I noticed as the wedge is raised higher it causes the boat and platform to lower. Basically the corner of the swim platform was underwater causing some wash. On my 99 VLX I actually raised the swim platform 3 inches. This was because with my hard tanks full the swim platform was under water. Back in 2000 we had not started wakesurfing so I don't know if it made a difference. I am going to try taking the swim platform off and playing around with the wedge and weight. I will let you know.

Our platform is under water by a bit & the wave is clean & blue almost all the way to the top (maybe the top inch or 2 is clear). That's not the thing causing it IMO. I think that the thing to try with the power wedge is different weight configurations & locations to try to find something that will work.

Agree with Bill, you're taking a big chance with lead. Plus you've got to haul it around with you.

I finally figured how to get the surf wave dialed in on my 08 VLX - put 12 people in the boat. We went out today with 12 people in the boat. I thought we had more than enough weight so I didn't have some people sit on the surf side. The wave was huge but still washed at the top. I had everyone move to the one side of the boat and the wash went clean. The boat had some major lean and the rub rail was in the water at the back (I remember reading a post that is what you have to do to get the big wave). So all I need is to get 12 people in the boat everyday we want to surf. I read the new 09 review by Lil john today and how he said that you don't have to have all the weight to get a great wave. I'm going down to my dealer tomorrow discuss getting one.

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A lot of the guys on our lake are using lead. This one guy has a malibu 247 with 1200 lbs in the back. The nice thing about lead is you can remove fairly it fairly easy.

We run with the 750 fully loaded and have no issues.... the wave is great. I will be plumbing one on each side permanently off the stock pumps this winter....tired of the tsunami, especially with a mix of goofy and reg.

Dave

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