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Ford Tow Command Brake Controller


HoustonPerson

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Does anyone have experience with the new Ford Super Duty F250/350– Tow Command Brake Controller and electric over hydraulic trailer disk brakes?

If you do, what have been your experiences with it? And what are the major brand name components on your trailer braking system?

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HP...Fire away with questions. I have an 05 F250 with the tow command and it works beautifully!!! I tow ~10,000 lb tractor and gooseneck a day or two each week. With the tranny brake and the command center you can set it just how you want it to stop!

You can't even tell the Bu is back there doing 75 doing the interstate! Yahoo.gif

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HP...Fire away with questions.  I have an 05 F250 with the tow command and it works beautifully!!!  I tow ~10,000 lb tractor and gooseneck a day or two each week.  With the tranny brake and the command center you can set it just how you want it to stop!

You can't even tell the Bu is back there doing 75 doing the interstate! Yahoo.gif

Hi Jason, man it has been a long time no see. You ever get to work in the Houston area again? We are making another trip to the Trinity this weekend, so you are welcome to join us.

Yea, I am just trying to find out if anyone has used something like the Titan products with their Ford Tow Command and these big wakesetters. From a performance standpoint I know it is a zillion times safer than traditional surge controllers, and you now would have seamless fully integrated hydraulics all the way to the disk brakes on the trailer, with full ABS performance, and lock up and jack knife on wet streets go from 100% certainty down to only 10%...........that alone makes it worth it to me.

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Jason,,,,tell me all about the F250.

When did you get it?

How many miles on it?

Guestimate mpg with and without trailer?

Which tire and wheel combination do you have?

4x4? CC SB? trim level?

Suspension Package on it? (camper, heavy, stabliizer, FX4? etc)

The good?

The Bad?

The Ugly?

Thanks

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...and you now would have seamless fully integrated hydraulics all the way to the disk brakes on the trailer, with full ABS performance

Where are you getting the ABS brake performance?

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Peter,

Can you give me your opinion on electric brakes on a boat trailer? We don't have the Ford system, but our Chevy does have an electronic brake controller & our other trailers with that setup worked soooo nice, it would be nice to have it on the next boat/trailer setup if it's feasible.

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Tracie,

I don't like pure electric brakes. (too many maintenance issues over time, sticking, locking up, etc)

If you convert a trailer over like HP is talking about, with electric over hydraulic, I would think it would work pretty good. But even with elect-draulic brakes you can still lock up the wheels, and so you adjust the controller to find that maximum brake with no lockup. Here in the Northeast no one really trailers their boat very far, so I don't see the value of changing from surge brakes unless you 1) trailer long distances, 2) trailer all the time, and 3) have a marginal tow vehicle.

I have electric over hydraulic on our 53' trailer, which we haul 3 boats and trailers at once. While it's a good system when pulling with a dually, it's by no means the only option. It's better than pure electric, likely about par with vaccum over hydraulic, and not as good as air brakes. But, it's a reasonable cost solution for good safe braking on that trailer.

We use a Tekonsha Prodigy controller in the pickup, which works well, and a Brakesmart controller in the little Freightliner. The Titan actuator (hyd pump) has been flawless, and the company's customer service has been very good the two times I've called to diagnose issues. (Both were corroded wiring or bad connection in our trailer harness) The only issue I have with the controllers (likely since I never read the manuals) is that once the trailer wheels lock up (happens when empty if I forget to change the setting) I have to release the truck brake to get them rolling again. I can't manually release the trailer brakes after lockup. This might be due to the controller's both being higher-end units. A simple on/off controller many RV'ers use you can grab the lever and lessen the braking amount while still keeping your foot on the brake pedal.

Peter.

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Thank you for your input Peter. We don't have a marginal tow vehicle (Chevy HD 2500), but we do trailer everywhere we go (min 1 hour each way) with some long trips thrown in throughout the summer. The thing that got me thinking about it is that the lake that we typically go to has a long steep grade of about a mile or 2, & the trailer brakes are almost smoking at the bottom. It's a pain to pull off & set the lockout every time we go down....so I don't know what the solution is to that problem. Other than that, the stock system would probably be fine. The electric system that we've had on other trailers was so smooth & controllable that I thought it might be a viable alternative.

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Tracie, in your situation of the long descent you have a viable reason to change the system. If you are using the truck engine for braking instead of using the truck brakes it's even a bigger reason. If you are using the truck brakes to control the descent, keep in mind that unless you turn down the brake value, the trailer brakes are still going to be on anytime you touch your truck brakes.

Peter

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<<<It's a pain to pull off & set the lockout every time we go down>>>

You didn't hear this from me, and I advise against it, for bypassing the trailer brakes with any device is dangerous.

Install a dash switch to turn on your backup lamps, to use while you're going down the hill.

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It doesn't seem to matter if we use the engine/tranny (it's got the Allison) or the truck brakes - with the surge actuator on the tongue, the trailer brakes are always engaged going down the hill. We've experimented with many different techniques in driving (including just bombing down the hill with very little braking, fun!) & nothing seems to make a difference. The actuator on the tongue & the fact that the brakes that come on the Extreme trailers are not adjustable in any fashion (at least that's what Extreme told me when I called them about it) are the problem.

So what would you recommend & do you know if it's available on the Extreme trailers? (Getting ready to order an '06.)

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Tracie, I've never seen a boat trailer with anything but surge on it, so I don't really know. (As far as I can tell Extreme doesn't offer different actuators, but they've been known to do some pretty custom stuff)

I'd give 'em a call and see what you can put together.

Peter

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Jason,,,,tell me all about the F250.

When did you get it?

How many miles on it?

Guestimate mpg with and without trailer? 

Which tire and wheel combination do you have?

4x4? CC SB? trim level?

Suspension Package on it?  (camper, heavy, stabliizer, FX4? etc)

The good?

The Bad?

The Ugly?

Thanks

I've had the truck since March and already put 16k miles on it!

Just regular driving I'm getting 16-17mpg unloaded With the Bu behind I get around 13-14mpg.

I have 17" wheels with I think 265/75/17, but those street tires will be replaced soon with some mud grips.

I have the CC, SB, Lariat, FX4.

The good: It will tow anything you throw at it and then some.

The Bad: Oil changes are not cheap, doesn't ride near as smooth as a 1/2 ton.

The Ugly: Luckily I haven't had to encounter this one.

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Hi Jason, man it has been a long time no see.  You ever get to work in the Houston area again?  We are making another trip to the Trinity this weekend, so you are welcome to join us.

Haven't been in H-Town for awhile now. I have my own company up here in Salado/Temple/Belton area. With the married life I don't have much time for anything these days, but I try and find time to take out the Bu. I might be down your way the weekend of the 6th, might tow the green machine down and unleash its wrath on you Houston guys!

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I've put on some stuff since I drove it off the lot, so your mileage might be better without the front/rear bumpers and the 2.5" leveling kit I got. I put on an aftermarket exhaust and it helps with your EGT when towing heavy loads, but doubt it would make much difference if just hauling the Bu!

Truck009.jpg

Edited by jpeavytx
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SmoothWaterMan

Ok, I will try to answer as best I can. The Ford web site use to have a video graphic of how the system worked for 2005, but it is no longer there? There is really nothing on it for 2006?

(side note: I have heard that Ford has had some problems with it - I do not know the extent of the problems or if they have been resolved - but I do not think there has been much web talk (negative) about it in the last six months or so?)

In the 2005 brochure it says:

"New TowCommand Integrated Trailer Brake Controller.........bla bla bla.....this optional controller is integrated with the Anti-lock Brake System. It synchronizes the vehicle and trailer brakes for seamless braking while towing even the heaviest loads. It has built-in trailer disconnect alarm. bla bla bla bla bla"

At the top of page 16-17 (stuff on their tow command). It has this picture diagram with "key letters A B C etc" attached...............the headline says: " bla bla bla the first integrated Trailer Brake Controller. "A" Then it integrates ABS with the best-in-class braking performance. "B" the TorqShift bla bla bla bla"

Now, if I recall correctly (and that is a big question mark?) I think I read or saw in a video that when your truck goes into a ABS mode, then the signal to your trailer brakes was also in ABS mode. It is then up to your electric/hydraulic system to be able to respond to it correctly.

Who knows it could all be plain ole sales poo poo.

Additional bullets notes on that page about it:

Integrated computer control module

Manual control lever

Digital gain/output gauge

Connection status indicator

Disconnect alarm

Standard 7-pin connector

Perhaps it does not provide ABS to the trailer? And you have to use the manual override? I do not know.

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Wakegirl. IMO, I would not use electric brakes on a boat trailer. It just sounds like bad karma to me.

But if there is a full system in place, that does not have the brakes "on" when you do not need them, and is able to provide all the advertized benefits, then I am all for it.

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Jason, ok give me a call when you get to Houston (i might be in Dallas then, i dunno?)

Do you happen to know if the Ford Controller provides a ABS signal in emergency braking?

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Also, Peter, can you find out somehow, if the Ford Controller provides ABS output that the Titan (electric/hydraulic) gizmo can respond to correctly?

Maybe the Titan people have had experience with the Ford Controller in emergency braking situations?

Edited by HoustonPerson
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http://www.titandist.com or [email protected] for info on that stuff.

If the ford controller interupts the trl brake signal when the Ford ABS engages, that's fine, but it has no idea what the trailer is doing. There is no signal feed from the electric-hydrualic actuator coming back to the truck - and really I'd guess you need a sensor to determine each trl wheel speed matches ground speed. Actual abs brakes -

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http://www.titandist.com  or [email protected] for info on that stuff.

If the ford controller interupts the trl brake signal when the Ford ABS engages, that's fine, but it has no idea what the trailer is doing.  There is no signal feed from the electric-hydrualic actuator coming back to the truck - and really I'd guess you need a sensor to determine each trl wheel speed matches ground speed.  Actual abs brakes -

Peter, yes I agree......

There is no signal coming back to the truck, and it would an all wheels or none of them, even on a full electric brake system. But I think, but have not been able to confirm with anyone yet, that when the truck gets into a ABS situation, it may either pulse the controller,or practically turn it off or close to it - in such a manner to prevent all four trailer wheels from locking up. Sort of a best guess situation, which would better than full 100% wheel lock up or 100% zero brakes.

I guess I would call such a system "fake ABS"

I will attempt to get hold of Titan to see what they say........I thought you might know someone there that would be familiar with the Ford system. I also, have a couple of Ford people looking into it; but that could very well be a dead end.

Edited by HoustonPerson
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.....that when the truck gets into a ABS situation, it may either pulse the controller,or practically turn it off or close to it - in such a manner to prevent all four trailer wheels from locking up.  Sort of a best guess situation, which would better than full 100% wheel lock up or 100% zero brakes.

I guess I would call such a system "fake ABS"

I'd be interested to find out that too. If they programmed it for it, it might be a great setup. A typical brake controller is doing the same thing - sending current in a rapid fire pulse to create a determined brake amount, but if ford has a version that can double time it when the truck abs kicks in, that's cool.

pb

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I think fake ABS for four wheel disk brakes may be close at hand.

Maybe something like this would make it work correctly?

http://www.carlislebrake.com/spec_hba-cam-...ter-module.html

That's just a fix for the higher-end electronic controllers. The Prodigy (And apparently the tow command) send out a signal to ensure that the brakes are hooked up and working. This signal is mis-read by some of the brake systems, which purely view it as a braking pulse to activate. The Brakesmart unit has a setting which will allow it to work on either brake system.

Peter.

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