If Malibu created a Moomba version

[bretski75]

Mike,

I couldn't agree more. A 2 or 3 year old, high end boat that has been taken care of is much better to me than a new not so high end one. Especially in the long run.

Quality of product and resale.

My 11 year old Echelon, 9 are mine, is in 95% the condition it was when I bought it. Things like matted carpet and elastic that lost its elasticity account for the 5 %. How can you beat that. My vinyl still is holding strong and I'm even still on my original cover. I don't know what I'll do when I replace it, I'm pretty sure I won't have that good luck on my next boat, whatever it is.

I have to add that I havn't had it at a dealer for anything in the time I have owned it. Everything that had needed maintenance or fixing have been small enough that I could do myself. Stereo replacement, replace heater pump, trailer brakes, shaft seal, usual stuff.

Edited October 22, 2008 by bretski75

[Matt_Alger]

I'd like to hear from someone who actually understands, rather than thinks, where the cost comes from. Does going to cheaper carpet really make much of a difference? Do the chrome badges add that much more? How much does moving to an analog gauge package knock of the price? You get the picture.

It's likely the combination of all of those things that brings the price down, but where is the opportunity for the most bang for the buck?

Mike

I would like to have someone in the industry comment on this as well. Buying a current Malibu without any options certainly cuts the cost significantly. But going beyond that, cheaper and less carpet saves??? cheaper gages saves? No wedge saves? No drive by wire saves? What does marketing cost per boat? How much overhead is attributed to each boat coming out of the factory? Do you cover that overhead with the Malibu line? I would guess that it is tough to make the hull much cheaper.

Speaking from a different industry, low cost starts with design and a major effort to keep down all costs. However, with so many purchased finished parts it would be tough for significant price reductions.

If you look at the auto industry, a low cost brand can be about 15 - 20% cheaper than the average brand. Hundai vs Toyota. However, I think that there are more ways to cut cost on a car than a boat. So if you expect a $60k Malibu to now be $40k it will require giving up many features that are on the $60k boat.

[bretski75]

I know some of the high volume runabouts come off a more automated line, at least as far as spraying and laying the glass in the molds. Since this is a highly labor intensive process perhaps that is a way to cut costs. But I would think you would need a lot more volume for that to pay off.

Going along with what Matt just said, if you want to keep the same quality what is there to cut aside from some options and fancy electronics? The man hours it takes to produce one may be a big one?

in 01 the base price or a Response LX was about $27000, Since that boat hasn't changed that much I am curious what the base price of one is this year.

That may tell us if its the consumers that wanted all the extra stuff we have today that drove the prices so high, or is it cost of materials and labor.

[Guest J-Ro]

There is a reason SN 2001's are still in demand. Great wake and inexpensive. There is a market for a V-Drive boat with ballast, wedge and PP and no other options. Save money by using lower grade carpet and vinyl, no chrome, etc. The cost of building a boat is not going down regardless of the price charged and there will be a glut of boats for the next couple years. Now is the perfect time to be starting this. By the time everything is humming along the economy will be better and price points will be in demand.

[jim05rlxi]

Anyone ever own, ride, or see a Tantrum?!?!?! A friend of a friend had one...same motor and hull to my knowledge but VERY little in the way of interior, trim, and the like but it was interesting looking for someone who wants the quality with ZERO comfort or bling that was it...don't think it made it much more then a few years, if that.

yep we have a couple of them on the lake .i believe those took over the flightcraft 18xlt like i use to have those were great all around boats

[MalibuTime]

I'd like to hear from someone who actually understands, rather than thinks, where the cost comes from. Does going to cheaper carpet really make much of a difference? Do the chrome badges add that much more? How much does moving to an analog gauge package knock of the price? You get the picture.

It's likely the combination of all of those things that brings the price down, but where is the opportunity for the most bang for the buck?

Mike

I would like to have someone in the industry comment on this as well. Buying a current Malibu without any options certainly cuts the cost significantly. But going beyond that, cheaper and less carpet saves??? cheaper gages saves? No wedge saves? No drive by wire saves? What does marketing cost per boat? How much overhead is attributed to each boat coming out of the factory? Do you cover that overhead with the Malibu line? I would guess that it is tough to make the hull much cheaper.

Speaking from a different industry, low cost starts with design and a major effort to keep down all costs. However, with so many purchased finished parts it would be tough for significant price reductions.

If you look at the auto industry, a low cost brand can be about 15 - 20% cheaper than the average brand. Hundai vs Toyota. However, I think that there are more ways to cut cost on a car than a boat. So if you expect a $60k Malibu to now be $40k it will require giving up many features that are on the $60k boat.

It's little bits everywhere, and as you metioned looking to the auto industry; platform consolidation and parts-bin sharing. It's really pretty basic - quality/cost of raw materials, design (value engineered), quantitiy of materials (including the number of parts, or assemblies needed), assembly process (labor), regulatory costs and taxes, and overhear / indirects (overhead, shipping, facilities, sales and marketing). It is basically the same as homebuilding, put these all together correctly and you will have a superior value product at a price point that is difficult for the competition. The key of course is successfully putting them all together.

As a side, take your hull example - the Malibu hulls are very labor intensive. several coats and hand taping to get various gelcoat patterns, hand laid, etc. Molds that are hand prepared every so many cycles. Now imagine a process where the hull stripes are taped colors and sprayed right over the top -no manual cutting or taping, per se. A machine that lays fiberglass and resin in one shot, (like a tapers bazooka) as opposed to a chopper gun - would cut significant labor, but at a higher quality. There are lots of ways to cut significant costs. Also, lets say hard cost (labor and material) are 50% of the cost of a boat, then for every $1 you save in manufacturing, you can cut the sales price $2 and still get the same gross margin on your product.

[2007vtx]

Axis huh? Wonder when Malibu will be sending me my royalty check, stealing my idea and all. VTX for sale, Axis here I come!!!!

[jclay5]

I think it would be a good idea. The price of boats is to high and I think Malibu could deliver where moomba fails.

I think its a great idea for Malibu to create an economical boat line. Just curious how could malibu with their economical boat line deliver where moomba fails? Or better yet where does moomba fail as an affordable boat line?

[jtrovato]

You'll find out as soon as the Axis boats come out.

[vlx wakesetter]

I read somewhere on the internet that the Axis 22ft. v-drive is going to start around 43K. What do you all think about the price for that boat?

[CumminsBu]

I read somewhere on the internet that the Axis 22ft. v-drive is going to start around 43K. What do you all think about the price for that boat?

All depend on what the standard options are. A loaded boat at 43K sounds like a deal.

Edited December 16, 2008 by CumminsBu

[ed obermeier]

I think it would be a good idea. The price of boats is to high and I think Malibu could deliver where moomba fails.

I think its a great idea for Malibu to create an economical boat line. Just curious how could malibu with their economical boat line deliver where moomba fails? Or better yet where does moomba fail as an affordable boat line?

I don't know if I can provide a satsifactory answer to the question but I'll give it a go. Having just moved into an '05 RLXI from 8 years of ownership of a 2000 Supra Legacy, and having a regular ski buddy with a 2000 Moomba Outback LS that I've driven and skied behind regularly, I think I have some perspective on the differences.

The Legacy was actually very similar to the RLXI in size, fit and finish, creature comforts, layout etc. A few things I liked better about the Supra but on most points the LXI is definitely superior IMO. Supra advertises their boats as "Luxury Ski Boats" and I'd say that was reasonably accurate, similar in the level of fit and finish to perhaps a Cobalt I/O (for the sake of comparison). It was a nice boat. The Moomba on the other hand is comparitively plain jane - ordinary interior layout, much lower quality vinyl, lightly padded seats with poor back support, the hull wasn't nearly as refined as the Supra (although I think the RLXI hull is more refined than the Supra for slalom wake, one of the numerous reasons I switched), ordinary looking dash, many of the things that were standard on the Supra were extra cost options on the Moomba if they were available at all, and so on. That's not to say that the Moomba wasn't a good ski boat because it was; not as good as the Supra though, and definitely not as good as the RLXI. Both boats DID have the same standard issue engine in them however (330 hp Indmar Assault MP-EFI) so Moomba at least get points for that. Good ski boat, it just wasn't a boat you'd spend the day lounging around the lake on.

As an affordable boat line I think Moomba, at least to date, is the best bang-for-the-buck out there with Gekko being a close second. But they're task specific boats - go hit the course and go home. The Supra was a great family lounge boat - comfortable, stylish, a pleasure to hang out in. I'd say the exact same for the RLXI except I think it's a notably better slalom boat. If the Axis line can deliver on the performance end without being too plain jane and without being too pricey for the market segment they're trying to capture I think they'll be a hit. Tough line to walk IMO.

Ed

[TheKiwi]

Has anybody actually owned a Moomba? They dont look like they are bad boats?

[bretski75]

I had one back when they were really young. For the money, it was great. Performance was good. Depending on what your looking for there can be a resonable difference.

Its mostly the little things. But there are a lot of them.

My opinion, they are good boats if your expectations are in the right spot. If you have a malibu and go look at one you will tell a difference though.

[Jimmypooh]

Has anybody actually owned a Moomba? They dont look like they are bad boats?

Some distant family has one. They have a place down the ilsand from us. The boat is perfect for them. They have 3 boys (9, 11, and 15) and generally have 2-3 friends more firends out. They are out all day every day. Tehy have no need for a super high priced boat as it would go waisted on that croud. I've been on the boat several times and we've been impressed. Not that I would trade it for my bu, but still nothing to laugh at.

[funkcity]

Axis 22ft. v-drive

This did not make it at the LA boat show.

It was more expensive than the Ride Series

The concept seemed right but even the swim step was wrong with turned-up sides.

And the pickle-fork???

We have an 06 V-Ride... easy to tow, easy to park...6" narrower, lots of power with the Monsoon.

The old V-Ride is a perfect place to start... We had 10 grownups in ours yesterday... in comfort... Smart marketing should say Malibu.. not Axis, Not Moomba!

Mastercraft has a ton of expensive models.... that they cannot sell.

[Malibu Barefooter]

I currently own a 2007 Moomba Outback and a 2005 Malibu Sportster LX. I'm a barefoot skier and slalom course skier. I can't tell much difference between the wake barefooting forward or backwards long line, or course skiing at 15', 22' or 28' off. The only difference is if I have 5 or more people in the Malibu the wake is still nice for barefooting or slalom skiing where as the Moomba the wake gets bigger at 5 people or more. But for us slalom skiers and barefooters, we rarely have 4 or more people in the boat. Wakeboarders would benefit from it. The Outback is rated for 10 people and has a nice walk thru open bow.

In the past, I always bought a new or left over model Malibu Sportster every 1 to 2 years. However, the Sportster was discontinued so I bought a new Moomba Outback with tower for $27,500. A similar price Malibu Response LXI was about $20,000 more. Since then 2 other friends bought the Moomba Outback instead of Malibu or MC for the same reason. Why spend $18,000 to $20,000 more for similar boats with same Indmar engines and transmissions. They do have a great wake. Upholstery is similar quality and I have no problems with either boat.

If I recall, Skiers Choice (Moomba/Supra), moved to 3rd place in direct drive/V drive sales about 3 years ago taking Correct Crafts place. Last I knew Malibu is still 1st, MC is 2nd.

Basically, Moomba fills the void where the Malibu Sportster had and MC Sportstar had in the past before discontinuing them.

Edited July 7, 2009 by Malibu Barefooter

[wakeup]

Across our cove there was a person with a Moomba. I am not sure of the model but it was probably 2-3 years old and a good looking boat. But he had constant problems with something going wrong and I believe I heard him say most were electrical bugs. He finally sold it and took a bath on the value. But I can't say for sure how he treated the boat day-in and day-out. He replaced it with a used MC X30.

I don't know much about the Axis boats to be honest, but I never understood the price point of the Axis. I thought it was going to be significantly less than any BU. But I'm not in the boat business so I assume it was based on a lot of research in the market.

IMO, Axis brand was the unfortunate recipient of bad timing. It just came along at the huge economic downturn before they could build brand recognition and owner loyalty. Interesting to see how much effort will be placed on that line of boats coming out of this downturn while trying to keep Malibu brand moving forward. I barely have seen one 09 BU on our lake much less an Axis.

[Malibu Barefooter]

I had a 02 Moomba Outback that I was not satisfied with the wake and did have a couple of electrical bugs on the gauges. However, the 07 Outback had 2 design upgrades and I've been totally satified with it. Also my 2 other friends, that has a 07 and a 08 Outbacks, have had no problems and are totally satisfied as well. I'm also totally satified with my 05 Malibu Sportster LX. I keep 2 inboards around (one for the lake house and one for home) and buy a new boat every 2 years. I'm just waiting to see what Malibu comes out with before deciding on a Malibu or another Outback.

[malibu bret]

Here is your no frills boat.

http://standardboats.com/default.aspx

As long as it gets you on the water, and having fun... thats what its all about anyway.

[MalibuTime]

Here is your no frills boat.

http://standardboats.com/default.aspx

As long as it gets you on the water, and having fun... thats what its all about anyway.

Totally agree, but for 30K+, I would buy used. That boat kind of reminds me of early Ski Natiques, no frills tow boats. I find it interesting that it is a small direct drive and they are not showing any skiers on thier action photo set. I could see people buying one of those that live on the water as a second boat, say if their primary boat was not watersports oriented.

[Arctic Slalom]

Here is your no frills boat.

http://standardboats.com/default.aspx

As long as it gets you on the water, and having fun... thats what its all about anyway.

335 hp in a 2,550 lb. direct drive.

I bet that thing really comes out of the hole!

[Baddog]

I think it would be a good idea. The price of boats is to high and I think Malibu could deliver where moomba fails.

VRIDE...

VRIDE MSRP-$41,695

I think malibu could put out a decent v-drive for $30,000 MSRP Boat, motor, tower, speed control, done. just my 2cents.

No manufacturer makes a $30K boat. Might as well buy a new bayliner and put a tower on it.

Rented one of those at Lake Geneva, WI for a 3 hour tour. It was such a POS I never even bothered to put a ski in the water.