Are You Responsible for Your Wake?

[WakeGirl]

What I'm curious about is how many here boat on lakes where the homeowner issue comes into play. I ask because very few of the lakes that I regularly go to fall under this category, & as such that part is a non-issue.

That's really at the heart of the problem. I know of several lakes where it would not be possible to throw a wake and have it not reach someone's lakefront property. Do the folks that do not own property on these PUBLIC lakes have a right to use them or not?

I don't have any problems with restrictions on boat sizes or wake enhancing devices, but I think it's BS that the law doesn't recognize the responsibility people should have to protect themselves and their property from the effects of reasonable boat wakes.

I can see that. My grandparents had a place on a small lake growing up, & as an adult I look at that & tend to think that with no camping or outside amenities, that lake should be for the exclusive use of the property owners. I see the entire point though, there should be some responsibility on all sides.

[2003w23lsv]

In the famous words of Groucho Marx, "Outside a dog, a book is a mans best friend. Inside a dog, it is too dark to read." My point? Enjoy life, be nice to each other and the world will be a much better place to live. Peace out!

Edited June 11, 2008 by 2003w23lsv

[CarveItUp]

Fascinating discussion with a number of interesting threads/theories but only one consistent fact: most state laws/regulations clearly specify that the boat operator is responsible for the wake his/her boat creates. Maybe the poll topic would be better stated SHOULD you be responsible for your wake? Unless the laws change, it seems clear that you are responsible for your wake regardless of whether it's right, you like it, think it's fair, etc.

I am squarely in the camp that I am responsible for my boat. I am responsible for any damage I cause in the operation of my boat whether it is from the boat itself, the wakes, or my driving. I am also responsible for the safety of those on board my boat.

It's interesting to read the different perspectives on responsibility of lakefront property owners that range from wake-caused damage to the property is the owner's problem and the owner should protect the property to not wanting the owner to protect the property because it makes the waves worse for boaters. I see people saying that boaters that don't know the right way to raft up deserve any damage they receive from wakes.

I'm particularly interested in the concept of "reasonable wakes". Who gets to decide what is reasonable? The guy in the 10' kayak? The 15' fishing boat? The 20' ski boat? The 40' cabin cruiser? The oil tanker? All wakes are not created equal...

I think a big part of the issue is that newer boats can put out substantially larger wakes (for their size) than they used to. It seems like a lot of the smaller lakes are having to deal with wakes that are (pulling a number out of a hat here) maybe closer to those from a 40' cabin cruiser than what you would expect from a 20' boat. Our boats are getting bigger and heavier even without added ballast. Throw in the 2000 - 3000 pounds of ballast plus your power wedge and 4' rollers (measured from trough to peak) are not out of the question. Hmmm, interesting side question: is it possible that some of us are running 10,000 pound vessels now (5K boat, 2K crew, 3K ballast)?

Just to stoke the fires...should there be a maximum allowed displacement rating for lakes? That might allow a more objective measurement of "reasonable wake".

[brazosvet]

Washington in general is cracking down on the big cove party tie ups. This is coming from a legal case that the state just lost. A young girl was gang rapped on lake washigton and claims that durring this experiance the lk. wa. police had driven by and not stopped to help her.

This happens a lot at my lake. A lot of people like rap music and will play it all at the same time on their many large tower speakers. Some even call it "Gang-sta Rap".

I wasn't aware it was illegal, just irritating!

Edited June 11, 2008 by brazosvet

[Tom Sawyer]

Fascinating discussion with a number of interesting threads/theories but only one consistent fact: most state laws/regulations clearly specify that the boat operator is responsible for the wake his/her boat creates. Maybe the poll topic would be better stated SHOULD you be responsible for your wake? Unless the laws change, it seems clear that you are responsible for your wake regardless of whether it's right, you like it, think it's fair, etc.

I am squarely in the camp that I am responsible for my boat. I am responsible for any damage I cause in the operation of my boat whether it is from the boat itself, the wakes, or my driving. I am also responsible for the safety of those on board my boat.

It's interesting to read the different perspectives on responsibility of lakefront property owners that range from wake-caused damage to the property is the owner's problem and the owner should protect the property to not wanting the owner to protect the property because it makes the waves worse for boaters. I see people saying that boaters that don't know the right way to raft up deserve any damage they receive from wakes.

I'm particularly interested in the concept of "reasonable wakes". Who gets to decide what is reasonable? The guy in the 10' kayak? The 15' fishing boat? The 20' ski boat? The 40' cabin cruiser? The oil tanker? All wakes are not created equal...

I think a big part of the issue is that newer boats can put out substantially larger wakes (for their size) than they used to. It seems like a lot of the smaller lakes are having to deal with wakes that are (pulling a number out of a hat here) maybe closer to those from a 40' cabin cruiser than what you would expect from a 20' boat. Our boats are getting bigger and heavier even without added ballast. Throw in the 2000 - 3000 pounds of ballast plus your power wedge and 4' rollers (measured from trough to peak) are not out of the question. Hmmm, interesting side question: is it possible that some of us are running 10,000 pound vessels now (5K boat, 2K crew, 3K ballast)?

Just to stoke the fires...should there be a maximum allowed displacement rating for lakes? That might allow a more objective measurement of "reasonable wake".

Good points. Right after the poll started, I wished I would have structured it so that it asked "what do you think the law is" and "what do you think it should be." Personally, I voted with emotion and my desire to skew the poll's results towards what I think it "should be" even though I am familiar with the law.

What is reasonable? Not an easy question to answer, but imho, it should be defined by boat size (measured by the boat's draft rather than it's length) and whether or not enhancing devices will be allowed. I don't even own a wakeboard, so personally, I wouldn't have any problems seeing such devices banned altogether.

Here is my problem and what I've decided to do about it:

I have been skiing in the same cove on the Mississippi river for 25 years. A couple of weeks ago, a buddy and I were shooting the breeze with our boats tied together when a Jon boat comes plowing by about 8 mph and 10 yards away (I'm not exaggerating either). The guy turns around, pulls up and lights into us that the reason he waked us was because we had earlier waked him. We hadn't even skied yet that day, so I was really taken a back that he was so pi$$ed off. Anyway, the guy and his wife (both of them looking like they just stepped off the set of Deliverance) proceeded to chew our a$$ about using the cove in the area where their and a few others' riverfront access are located (about 1/2 of the cove). On the river, this property is actually owned by the US Army Corps of Engineers and rented out to folks that construct makeshift housing, pull in trailers or whatever. Well, I'm obviously not at all happy with the way they approached the situation as they seemed more interested in a confrontation than a discussion. So, they spew the "responsibility for my wake" at me, we argue, etc. etc.... I leave them with "we'll try to be more considerate".

One of their arguments was that we always turn around in front of their place, which, we do because it's at the end of the cove. I hadn't ever worried about it because the guy drives his old Jon boat right up the bank and ties it up...he doesn't even have a dock. Of course I knew my wake was bouncing it (along with the wakes from many other boats), but given it's condition and the way the guy treats it, the waves I throw at it aren't going to hurt it. Even so, I'll admit, I shouldn't have been doing that and I will stop.

Well, this brings me to why I'm so tore down over this. The people in these river "camps" use the cove for fishing and duck hunting, so their constantly running fishing, lines, building duck blinds etc. They can use the "responsibility for my wake" argument to say I'm rocking their boats, docks or duck blinds. I'm sure my wakes are annoying, but their real goal is getting me out of the cove so they can have it to themselves.

Here's what I'm going to do:

No more turns in front of anyone's river camp

No more trick skiing or kneeboarding in front of anyone's river camp.

We will continue to make slalom and barefoot passes as far away from them as we can get (at least 100s of feet).

Will these steps solve the problem? Probably not. Even though I may be responsible for my wake, the boating guides for Illinois and Missouri use the words "reasonable distance" and 100 feet when talking about making wakes near other boats and docks. It's not illegal for me to make it, I'm just responsible for it, so, show me which one of those dings on the bottom of your boat that I'm responsible for, prove it, and I'll write you a check. I will be as considerate as I can be as I continue to do what is, after my family, the 2nd thing I live for.

If you've made it this far reading my rant, thank you. If you have any suggestions or thoughts about how I plan to approach my problem, please feel free to share them.

Hopefully, I won't end up on the bank somewhere squealing like a pig!

[WakeGirl]

Hopefully, I won't end up on the bank somewhere squealing like a pig!

I had wondered what the issue was that made you post this thread. I don't have any good suggestions for you, except to say that you'll get a lot farther by being proactive & trying to work with the problem rather than against it. Good luck.

[DC-STRO]

There a a few lakes within 5 miles of my house. I have friends who live on two of them. They have the lake home owners association who basically bitches about everything that happens on THEIR lake. Large wakes has become their latest complaint. The county has kissed their asses for years. One lake has a no wake zone for 21 out of 24 hours in a day. On another lake you can only make a wake from noon to 6:PM on the weekends.

They have imposed restrictions on trailer parking and at the landings they have split up the spots for PWC, boats over 35HP and under 35HP. I think it's 10 for PWC, 10 for under 35HP and 6 for over 35HP. Who gets screwed in that deal? Throw in the fact that small fishing boats park in the over 35HP spots leaving anyone with a large trailer nowhere to park.

There are two sets of rules.

#1. If you live on the lake you can do whatever you want.

#2. If you don't live on the lake then GET THE F#@K off our lake.

Thy should change their name to .......The home moaners association.

Edited June 11, 2008 by DC-STRO

[MalibuTime]

Fascinating discussion with a number of interesting threads/theories but only one consistent fact: most state laws/regulations clearly specify that the boat operator is responsible for the wake his/her boat creates. Maybe the poll topic would be better stated SHOULD you be responsible for your wake? Unless the laws change, it seems clear that you are responsible for your wake regardless of whether it's right, you like it, think it's fair, etc.

I am squarely in the camp that I am responsible for my boat. I am responsible for any damage I cause in the operation of my boat whether it is from the boat itself, the wakes, or my driving. I am also responsible for the safety of those on board my boat.

It's interesting to read the different perspectives on responsibility of lakefront property owners that range from wake-caused damage to the property is the owner's problem and the owner should protect the property to not wanting the owner to protect the property because it makes the waves worse for boaters. I see people saying that boaters that don't know the right way to raft up deserve any damage they receive from wakes.

I'm particularly interested in the concept of "reasonable wakes". Who gets to decide what is reasonable? The guy in the 10' kayak? The 15' fishing boat? The 20' ski boat? The 40' cabin cruiser? The oil tanker? All wakes are not created equal...

I think a big part of the issue is that newer boats can put out substantially larger wakes (for their size) than they used to. It seems like a lot of the smaller lakes are having to deal with wakes that are (pulling a number out of a hat here) maybe closer to those from a 40' cabin cruiser than what you would expect from a 20' boat. Our boats are getting bigger and heavier even without added ballast. Throw in the 2000 - 3000 pounds of ballast plus your power wedge and 4' rollers (measured from trough to peak) are not out of the question. Hmmm, interesting side question: is it possible that some of us are running 10,000 pound vessels now (5K boat, 2K crew, 3K ballast)?

Just to stoke the fires...should there be a maximum allowed displacement rating for lakes? That might allow a more objective measurement of "reasonable wake".

Whether I am legally responsible or not, unless I am making a bigger wake than mother nature can make, I don't feel too bad. If people are not securing their boats for the level of wind and waves that can kick up within a few minutes, or the level of waves they know will be coming in on a regular basis from boat traffic, then its "their bad" even if its "my fault". With all that said, it is very true, a bit of common sense and courtesy to your fellow boaters goes a long ways.

[CarveItUp]

Whether I am legally responsible or not, unless I am making a bigger wake than mother nature can make, I don't feel too bad. If people are not securing their boats for the level of wind and waves that can kick up within a few minutes, or the level of waves they know will be coming in on a regular basis from boat traffic, then its "their bad" even if its "my fault". With all that said, it is very true, a bit of common sense and courtesy to your fellow boaters goes a long ways.

Thank you for your comment. I agree that being courteous and considerate of other people is a good thing. I also believe that as boat operators we have a responsibility for the safety of not only our own crews but also the safety of others on the water.

The part I'm struggling with in this thread is the apparent sentiment (not necessarily yours) that it's the other guy's problem to deal with the effects of my actions (wakes in the case of this thread). And further, that the other guy isn't taking personal responsibility if he doesn't prevent the damage to his property that I might cause. These arguments seem backward to me...am I missing something?

[srintx]

Wake zone or no wake zone, tie your boat up for max protection, you never know!

This got me thinking….and not trying to jack a thread. But, what are some of the ways you tie up your boat? do you tie off from the grab rail or from the cleats? What type of equipment do you use i.e. ropes, stretch line, bumpers, etc.

I for one would be open to what someone else does if it’s going to make my boat safer…and possible yours?

Shawn

[JohnDoe]

Whether I am legally responsible or not, unless I am making a bigger wake than mother nature can make, I don't feel too bad. If people are not securing their boats for the level of wind and waves that can kick up within a few minutes, or the level of waves they know will be coming in on a regular basis from boat traffic, then its "their bad" even if its "my fault". With all that said, it is very true, a bit of common sense and courtesy to your fellow boaters goes a long ways.

Thank you for your comment. I agree that being courteous and considerate of other people is a good thing. I also believe that as boat operators we have a responsibility for the safety of not only our own crews but also the safety of others on the water.

The part I'm struggling with in this thread is the apparent sentiment (not necessarily yours) that it's the other guy's problem to deal with the effects of my actions (wakes in the case of this thread). And further, that the other guy isn't taking personal responsibility if he doesn't prevent the damage to his property that I might cause. These arguments seem backward to me...am I missing something?

In my opinion, no you're not. Many people (at least I think they're people ) on this board take issue with anyone actually holding anyone accountable for their actions, and instead prefer the position that anyone those who would do so are either litigious or failed to "Man Up" themselves. It's a matter of perspective and it's just easier for them to throw stones to justify their own inability to comprehend that they are the ones who are failing to realize that they can't deal with their own accountability.

[WakeGirl]

Whether I am legally responsible or not, unless I am making a bigger wake than mother nature can make, I don't feel too bad. If people are not securing their boats for the level of wind and waves that can kick up within a few minutes, or the level of waves they know will be coming in on a regular basis from boat traffic, then its "their bad" even if its "my fault". With all that said, it is very true, a bit of common sense and courtesy to your fellow boaters goes a long ways.

Thank you for your comment. I agree that being courteous and considerate of other people is a good thing. I also believe that as boat operators we have a responsibility for the safety of not only our own crews but also the safety of others on the water.

The part I'm struggling with in this thread is the apparent sentiment (not necessarily yours) that it's the other guy's problem to deal with the effects of my actions (wakes in the case of this thread). And further, that the other guy isn't taking personal responsibility if he doesn't prevent the damage to his property that I might cause. These arguments seem backward to me...am I missing something?

I think that he's talking about a situation where you may have a busy lake or maybe a lot of wind, & your boat isn't doing anything that isn't already part of the existing conditions. If someone's got a boat tied up under those circumstances & it gets damaged because they didn't do a very good job of it, then I can see the point that he's trying to make. You get what you get in that case. Think of the times out on Lake Billy last year when it was so freakin' windy. The swells that were generated on some of those days were impressive to say the least. For anyone that tied up in certain areas of the Cove marina, you would have had to do a very good job of it even if there hadn't been a single boat on the lake. Does that make sense? I think that the issue isn't as black & white as we'd like to make it.

[jshap]

Whether I am legally responsible or not, unless I am making a bigger wake than mother nature can make, I don't feel too bad. If people are not securing their boats for the level of wind and waves that can kick up within a few minutes, or the level of waves they know will be coming in on a regular basis from boat traffic, then its "their bad" even if its "my fault". With all that said, it is very true, a bit of common sense and courtesy to your fellow boaters goes a long ways.

Thank you for your comment. I agree that being courteous and considerate of other people is a good thing. I also believe that as boat operators we have a responsibility for the safety of not only our own crews but also the safety of others on the water.

The part I'm struggling with in this thread is the apparent sentiment (not necessarily yours) that it's the other guy's problem to deal with the effects of my actions (wakes in the case of this thread). And further, that the other guy isn't taking personal responsibility if he doesn't prevent the damage to his property that I might cause. These arguments seem backward to me...am I missing something?

I understand what you're saying, but wake boats are doing what they were designed to do, displace water and make a wake. They either have to be banned, or people sharing the water with them have to take positive action to protect their property from moving water. Like it or not, these boats are here to stay (unless regulated of course). If, knowing that they WILL be on the water with you, you don't take steps to protect your boat, then that's your problem. It's sort of like the "last clear chance" to avoid an auto accident. Whether it's the other guys fault or not, if YOU don't take the steps to avoid the accident, you're just as much to blame.

In reality, I can't see too many circumstances where a boat would be held accountable for damage caused by it's wake, other than in No-Wake zones of course. Maybe if they intended to cause damage, sure, but in the normal course of events, no way.

[Tom Sawyer]

Whether I am legally responsible or not, unless I am making a bigger wake than mother nature can make, I don't feel too bad. If people are not securing their boats for the level of wind and waves that can kick up within a few minutes, or the level of waves they know will be coming in on a regular basis from boat traffic, then its "their bad" even if its "my fault". With all that said, it is very true, a bit of common sense and courtesy to your fellow boaters goes a long ways.

Thank you for your comment. I agree that being courteous and considerate of other people is a good thing. I also believe that as boat operators we have a responsibility for the safety of not only our own crews but also the safety of others on the water.

The part I'm struggling with in this thread is the apparent sentiment (not necessarily yours) that it's the other guy's problem to deal with the effects of my actions (wakes in the case of this thread). And further, that the other guy isn't taking personal responsibility if he doesn't prevent the damage to his property that I might cause. These arguments seem backward to me...am I missing something?

In my opinion, no you're not. Many people (at least I think they're people ) on this board take issue with anyone actually holding anyone accountable for their actions, and instead prefer the position that anyone those who would do so are either litigious or failed to "Man Up" themselves. It's a matter of perspective and it's just easier for them to throw stones to justify their own inability to comprehend that they are the ones who are failing to realize that they can't deal with their own accountability.

How do you guys feel about this responsibility concept applied in these similar situations....

I build a house next to the airport, after a few years I find that the mortar is crumbling due to the violent vibration caused by the planes flying directly overhead on their way to touch down. I have fallen ill because I haven't been able to get a good night's sleep for years.....

I love windows so much that I load up the back of the house I'm building next to the golf course with the largest most expensive ones I can find. After it's finished, I find I'm averaging one-two broken windows per week...

I build a house on a gravel road...do the people who drive by my house because they live farther down the lane have to stop by from time to time to help me clean up the dust? They're the ones who put it in the air when they drove by, how could they not be responsible for it?

[jshap]

Whether I am legally responsible or not, unless I am making a bigger wake than mother nature can make, I don't feel too bad. If people are not securing their boats for the level of wind and waves that can kick up within a few minutes, or the level of waves they know will be coming in on a regular basis from boat traffic, then its "their bad" even if its "my fault". With all that said, it is very true, a bit of common sense and courtesy to your fellow boaters goes a long ways.

Thank you for your comment. I agree that being courteous and considerate of other people is a good thing. I also believe that as boat operators we have a responsibility for the safety of not only our own crews but also the safety of others on the water.

The part I'm struggling with in this thread is the apparent sentiment (not necessarily yours) that it's the other guy's problem to deal with the effects of my actions (wakes in the case of this thread). And further, that the other guy isn't taking personal responsibility if he doesn't prevent the damage to his property that I might cause. These arguments seem backward to me...am I missing something?

In my opinion, no you're not. Many people (at least I think they're people ) on this board take issue with anyone actually holding anyone accountable for their actions, and instead prefer the position that anyone those who would do so are either litigious or failed to "Man Up" themselves. It's a matter of perspective and it's just easier for them to throw stones to justify their own inability to comprehend that they are the ones who are failing to realize that they can't deal with their own accountability.

How do you guys feel about this responsibility concept applied in these similar situations....

I build a house next to the airport, after a few years I find that the mortar is crumbling due to the violent vibration caused by the planes flying directly overhead on their way to touch down. I have fallen ill because I haven't been able to get a good night's sleep for years.....

I love windows so much that I load up the back of the house I'm building next to the golf course with the largest most expensive ones I can find. After it's finished, I find I'm averaging one-two broken windows per week...

I build a house on a gravel road...do the people who drive by my house because they live farther down the lane have to stop by from time to time to help me clean up the dust? They're the ones who put it in the air when they drove by, how could they not be responsible for it?

Item 2 is actually the golfer's responsibility, or the course if you can't find the golfer. Any errant shot you take is yours to keep, including any/all damages caused. Although, I could be wrong if the Course/Residents have a no-liability policy for living on the fairway, but I get what you're saying completely...

[Sixball]

I didn't order cleats on my boat knowing tying up at the dock or on my lake is not a option. It just gets to rough from boat traffic. I built trying to anticipate any problem but wakes have changed so much in the last years I still fall short sometimes. never foresaw wakes three and a half or four feet hi. The biggest natural wake in my area of the lake is about two feet with fifty plus MPH wind.

[WakeGirl]

How do you guys feel about this responsibility concept applied in these similar situations....

....

I build a house on a gravel road...do the people who drive by my house because they live farther down the lane have to stop by from time to time to help me clean up the dust? They're the ones who put it in the air when they drove by, how could they not be responsible for it?

My very scenario. I live at the end of a gravel road & drive by about 4 houses on each side to get to mine. It's all about being proactive about the situation. I drive slowly so that I don't kick up extra dust, I don't do brodies, donuts or burnouts on the gravel, & my husband helps to maintain the road by using our tractor to grade it & keep it in good shape. We also regularly get together with other neighbors to buy gravel for it since the county won't do anything to maintain the road. And in the winter my husband & another neighbor with a tractor work to keep the road clear of snow so that we can get to our houses. So we all try to work together to keep everyone happy. There aren't any laws that require us to do any of those things, but we make it work because it just makes sense. In the end, people remember those things & cut you some slack when you aren't exactly on your A Game.

[jjackkrash]

Whether I am legally responsible or not, unless I am making a bigger wake than mother nature can make, I don't feel too bad. If people are not securing their boats for the level of wind and waves that can kick up within a few minutes, or the level of waves they know will be coming in on a regular basis from boat traffic, then its "their bad" even if its "my fault". With all that said, it is very true, a bit of common sense and courtesy to your fellow boaters goes a long ways.

Thank you for your comment. I agree that being courteous and considerate of other people is a good thing. I also believe that as boat operators we have a responsibility for the safety of not only our own crews but also the safety of others on the water.

The part I'm struggling with in this thread is the apparent sentiment (not necessarily yours) that it's the other guy's problem to deal with the effects of my actions (wakes in the case of this thread). And further, that the other guy isn't taking personal responsibility if he doesn't prevent the damage to his property that I might cause. These arguments seem backward to me...am I missing something?

In my opinion, no you're not. Many people (at least I think they're people ) on this board take issue with anyone actually holding anyone accountable for their actions, and instead prefer the position that anyone those who would do so are either litigious or failed to "Man Up" themselves. It's a matter of perspective and it's just easier for them to throw stones to justify their own inability to comprehend that they are the ones who are failing to realize that they can't deal with their own accountability.

How do you guys feel about this responsibility concept applied in these similar situations....

I build a house next to the airport, after a few years I find that the mortar is crumbling due to the violent vibration caused by the planes flying directly overhead on their way to touch down. I have fallen ill because I haven't been able to get a good night's sleep for years.....

I love windows so much that I load up the back of the house I'm building next to the golf course with the largest most expensive ones I can find. After it's finished, I find I'm averaging one-two broken windows per week...

I build a house on a gravel road...do the people who drive by my house because they live farther down the lane have to stop by from time to time to help me clean up the dust? They're the ones who put it in the air when they drove by, how could they not be responsible for it?

Item 2 is actually the golfer's responsibility, or the course if you can't find the golfer. Any errant shot you take is yours to keep, including any/all damages caused. Although, I could be wrong if the Course/Residents have a no-liability policy for living on the fairway, but I get what you're saying completely...

Not so in Texas, unless the golfer is negligent or reckless. If he just makes a bad shot in the normal course of play, the golfer is not liable to the homeowner for property damage.

[CarveItUp]

Whether I am legally responsible or not, unless I am making a bigger wake than mother nature can make, I don't feel too bad. If people are not securing their boats for the level of wind and waves that can kick up within a few minutes, or the level of waves they know will be coming in on a regular basis from boat traffic, then its "their bad" even if its "my fault". With all that said, it is very true, a bit of common sense and courtesy to your fellow boaters goes a long ways.

Thank you for your comment. I agree that being courteous and considerate of other people is a good thing. I also believe that as boat operators we have a responsibility for the safety of not only our own crews but also the safety of others on the water.

The part I'm struggling with in this thread is the apparent sentiment (not necessarily yours) that it's the other guy's problem to deal with the effects of my actions (wakes in the case of this thread). And further, that the other guy isn't taking personal responsibility if he doesn't prevent the damage to his property that I might cause. These arguments seem backward to me...am I missing something?

I understand what you're saying, but wake boats are doing what they were designed to do, displace water and make a wake. They either have to be banned, or people sharing the water with them have to take positive action to protect their property from moving water. Like it or not, these boats are here to stay (unless regulated of course). If, knowing that they WILL be on the water with you, you don't take steps to protect your boat, then that's your problem. It's sort of like the "last clear chance" to avoid an auto accident. Whether it's the other guys fault or not, if YOU don't take the steps to avoid the accident, you're just as much to blame.

In reality, I can't see too many circumstances where a boat would be held accountable for damage caused by it's wake, other than in No-Wake zones of course. Maybe if they intended to cause damage, sure, but in the normal course of events, no way.

I agree with what you're saying. We have regulations that state that the boat operator is responsible for damage caused by their wake. We have regulations about the maximum allowable operating capacity and regulations about operating your boat in a safe manner.

I also agree that it's my responsibility to try to protect myself (boat, property, whatever) from the effects of wakes thrown by other boats. I'm okay with the idea that both parties have responsibility for their actions. I'm less comfortable with the thought that the operator doesn't have any responsibility.

One example I can see is the potential for someone to weigh the boat down for surfing and throw a wake that capsizes a small boat (rowboat, canoe, kayak, etc.). If that were to happen I think the sheriff would be justified in citing the surf boat operator for operating in an unsafe manner. Particularly if the boat happened to be operating in excess of its rated capacity.

I think this is a great discussion and appreciate the interesting viewpoints. I think Tracie addressed the gravel example in a far better way than I ever could. I think it's a great approach and the right one to apply to this problem. In the words of Bill and Ted, "Be excellent to one another." In my opinion, boat drivers ought to be aware of their surroundings and try to minimize their impact to other people and property owners should take appropriate measures to protect themselves and their property. I think it really does take both parties working together or you will find more and more regulation/restriction on boating.

[WakeGirl]

I've been boating for a long, long time, but I don't think that I can remember an issue that brings the relevance of "being excellent to one another" (at least on the water) to the forefront in such an extreme way.

[Tom Sawyer]

In my opinion, boat drivers ought to be aware of their surroundings and try to minimize their impact to other people and property owners should take appropriate measures to protect themselves and their property.

[jshap]

In my opinion, boat drivers ought to be aware of their surroundings and try to minimize their impact to other people and property owners should take appropriate measures to protect themselves and their property.

Very well said. Unfortunately, "being excellent to each other" is usually a one way street. Too many ignorant/unaware people on America's waterways for this quote to come true.

[WakeGirl]

True. I think that Ronnie & I were having a discussion about this privately at one point, & we touched on the idea of ways that we could be proactive about educating other boaters (such as the ones that jshap refers to) on the issue. IIRC, it was borne from the discussions related to what's happening on the Willamette in western Oregon right now. Ballast is being restricted in certain areas of that river because of the riverfront owner issue. I think that there's something to the idea, but how to do it? How do we as a community take on an issue like that? It may not be our responsibility, but I can tell you that if someone doesn't take up that cause then the lawmakers will & they will favor the side that forces them to it. They're already doing that here.

[jshap]

Yep, and if the wakes are as destructive to lake/river fronts as we suspect, it's only a matter of time before it's even more restrictive than it already is. Being proactive may be the only way to undercut the "squeaky wheel" and have it more palatable to wakesport fans.

[MalibuTime]

Whether I am legally responsible or not, unless I am making a bigger wake than mother nature can make, I don't feel too bad. If people are not securing their boats for the level of wind and waves that can kick up within a few minutes, or the level of waves they know will be coming in on a regular basis from boat traffic, then its "their bad" even if its "my fault". With all that said, it is very true, a bit of common sense and courtesy to your fellow boaters goes a long ways.

Thank you for your comment. I agree that being courteous and considerate of other people is a good thing. I also believe that as boat operators we have a responsibility for the safety of not only our own crews but also the safety of others on the water.

The part I'm struggling with in this thread is the apparent sentiment (not necessarily yours) that it's the other guy's problem to deal with the effects of my actions (wakes in the case of this thread). And further, that the other guy isn't taking personal responsibility if he doesn't prevent the damage to his property that I might cause. These arguments seem backward to me...am I missing something?

I think that he's talking about a situation where you may have a busy lake or maybe a lot of wind, & your boat isn't doing anything that isn't already part of the existing conditions. If someone's got a boat tied up under those circumstances & it gets damaged because they didn't do a very good job of it, then I can see the point that he's trying to make. You get what you get in that case. Think of the times out on Lake Billy last year when it was so freakin' windy. The swells that were generated on some of those days were impressive to say the least. For anyone that tied up in certain areas of the Cove marina, you would have had to do a very good job of it even if there hadn't been a single boat on the lake. Does that make sense? I think that the issue isn't as black & white as we'd like to make it.

Right, what I am saying is kind of like if you don't like the noise of airplanes, don't live by the airport. I think where really the issues are is with the fact that many of our boats can make really large wakes, and we need to realize that if making a larger wake than the defacto "standard" (hey, is that vague enough for you) then be aware and use some common sense. If you live on Lake Sammamish, the fact is your going to get tons of boat traffic and huge waves every summer weekend, but that's the way that lake is, and if you don't like it, don't buy a house there. It's expected use. If you are on the other side of the mountains by Lake Wenatchee, and you decide to drop in a mile away at Fish Lake (I think) you can still load up and wakeboard there, but you might be risking getting shot at by a bunch of ticked off fishermen, or best case hooked through the (fill in here you least favorite body part to get a barbed hook through).

All I can say is it's easy enough to move to another part of most of the lakes I frequent if necesary, and I'll do that because if I am looking at glass and ready to get the stick out I would hope that someone else thinking about boarding or surfing would do the same for me.

My last thought, if a wave trashes a dock (boat, whatever) , and there is no one to see the boat, was there ever a boat? (ok, kind of lame adaptation of the tree falling in the forest thing)