2009 Model line-up...

[chrisallenhogs]

Malibu has priced themselves right up there with Correct Craft. They are no longer the great value they once were. Hard to imagine they're selling a lot of boats in this economy.

You have to wonder what effect the current/future economy is going to have on pricing. . .

I have no first hand experience as I bought the last new boat I'll ever buy in 2003, but I bet the spread between the retail price and the actual selling price will widen. Maybe they will bring back a smaller, lower priced boat.

Not to be difficult or anything, but for someone who can afford a $60,000 dollar boat I don't think a run up to $4 dollar gas and a weak economy should have to much effect on them. I believe it was another record year for ski/wake boat sales. Maybe that has more to do with prices going up. It's easy to get a 10% increase in sales when you raise prices by 10%.

[SunriseH2OSkier]

Don't bet on it. Just look at the full size truck/SUV market in the last few months, and what it is driving us to do here at GM: Link. Gas price is an extremely important factor to a lot of people - maybe not so much to those of us here, but this community is far from the norm.

[SunriseH2OSkier]

Rick Wagoner stated in the press conference this morning that as recently as Oct-Dec 2007, we (GM) sold on the order of 105,000 Pickups and SUVs each month. In the last two months, it has been on the order of 65,000. Do you really believe that in the span of 6 months, that many people suddenly couldn't afford a $60K SUV or a $30K Pickup? NFW - it is almost entirely the result of the climb in fuel prices. And if you believe today's price of gas will become the norm (I do), then those sales are not going to come back. And if people are turning away from SUVs, just imagine what it is going to do to the marine industry.

Edited June 3, 2008 by SunriseH2OSkier

[88Skier]

Even the people that can afford high gas prices don't like getting poked. I think we'll see a lot boats more floating and putting this summer. And boat sales are soft. They were last year and got to be a lot worse this year.

[Madmanacrossthewater]

Malibu has priced themselves right up there with Correct Craft. They are no longer the great value they once were. Hard to imagine they're selling a lot of boats in this economy.

The rising cost of petroleum based materials, freight, and labor are to blame for the price increase. Malibu is no different than any other manufacturer in that respect.

[88Skier]

Malibu has priced themselves right up there with Correct Craft. They are no longer the great value they once were. Hard to imagine they're selling a lot of boats in this economy.

The rising cost of petroleum based materials, freight, and labor are to blame for the price increase. Malibu is no different than any other manufacturer in that respect.

My friend that sells Malibus has been telling me the same thing for the past 5 years, but if you look at what a Malibu cost 5 years ago and what it cost today, as well as what they cost as compared to Correct Craft then and now, they've raised their prices by more than just an inflation index. Sales took off and they raised their prices to match demand.

Edited June 3, 2008 by 88Skier

[VinRLX]

Malibu has priced themselves right up there with Correct Craft. They are no longer the great value they once were. Hard to imagine they're selling a lot of boats in this economy.

The rising cost of petroleum based materials, freight, and labor are to blame for the price increase. Malibu is no different than any other manufacturer in that respect.

My friend that sells Malibus has been telling me the same thing for the past 5 years, but if you look at what a Malibu cost 5 years ago and what it cost today, as well as what they cost as compared to Correct Craft then and now, they've raised their prices by more than just an inflation index. Sales took off and they raised their prices to match demand.

That's my presumption as well.

[UWSkier]

Don't bet on it. Just look at the full size truck/SUV market in the last few months, and what it is driving us to do here at GM: Link. Gas price is an extremely important factor to a lot of people - maybe not so much to those of us here, but this community is far from the norm.

That's all the news here in Southern WI today. Sad day indeed. That Janesville plant was around for 90 years and survived some really tough times. World wars, depressions, the Carter administration...

[SunriseH2OSkier]

To 88's point, I'll add that any thoughts I might have been entertaining about getting a new ride are now gone. I could afford a new one if I really wanted it, but the uncertainty in the economy is enough to keep me from it. I own my boat outright, and I just can't see sinking double the money it would take to put me in a new boat equipped the same way.

I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of people in the same situation. Then add in the people who are making payments on a boat today. Some are enthusiastic about boating, and may or may not be interested in trading up (and paying more each month). But some are not so enthusiastic, especially when push comes to shove and they are trying to figure out how to pay for the gas to have that fun, they are going to decide it isn't so important to them. Many will try to sell to get out from under it. Suddenly the manufacturers are now also having to compete with a larger used boat market, many of which are relatively low hour boats with much lower price than a new one.

The marine industry is in for some serious restructuring - no doubt about it.

[Madmanacrossthewater]

Compare what Malibu has done from a R&D standpoint, and what CC and others have done.

If you compare apples to apples, Malibu still has the best boat for the money...period. They may cost more than 5 years ago, but will still bring more on trade and/or resale as well.

I'm not a fan of price increases either, as it's how I feed my family.

Edited June 3, 2008 by Madmanacrossthewater

[Madmanacrossthewater]

To 88's point, I'll add that any thoughts I might have been entertaining about getting a new ride are now gone. I could afford a new one if I really wanted it, but the uncertainty in the economy is enough to keep me from it. I own my boat outright, and I just can't see sinking double the money it would take to put me in a new boat equipped the same way.

I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of people in the same situation. Then add in the people who are making payments on a boat today. Some are enthusiastic about boating, and may or may not be interested in trading up (and paying more each month). But some are not so enthusiastic, especially when push comes to shove and they are trying to figure out how to pay for the gas to have that fun, they are going to decide it isn't so important to them. Many will try to sell to get out from under it. Suddenly the manufacturers are now also having to compete with a larger used boat market, many of which are relatively low hour boats with much lower price than a new one.

The marine industry is in for some serious restructuring - no doubt about it.

How do you go about restructuring the marine industry? Seriously? By restructuring do you mean drop prices? Make cheaper, smaller boats? Or do they make a lesser quality boat that cost less, resulting in a much lower resale value? I'm not trying to be a smart a$%...just interested in hearing what your thoughts are in reference to how to restructure the industry.

[UWSkier]

To 88's point, I'll add that any thoughts I might have been entertaining about getting a new ride are now gone. I could afford a new one if I really wanted it, but the uncertainty in the economy is enough to keep me from it. I own my boat outright, and I just can't see sinking double the money it would take to put me in a new boat equipped the same way.

I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of people in the same situation. Then add in the people who are making payments on a boat today. Some are enthusiastic about boating, and may or may not be interested in trading up (and paying more each month). But some are not so enthusiastic, especially when push comes to shove and they are trying to figure out how to pay for the gas to have that fun, they are going to decide it isn't so important to them. Many will try to sell to get out from under it. Suddenly the manufacturers are now also having to compete with a larger used boat market, many of which are relatively low hour boats with much lower price than a new one.

The marine industry is in for some serious restructuring - no doubt about it.

How do you go about restructuring the marine industry? Seriously? By restructuring do you mean drop prices? Make cheaper, smaller boats? Or do they make a lesser quality boat that cost less, resulting in a much lower resale value? I'm not trying to be a smart a$%...just interested in hearing what your thoughts are in reference to how to restructure the industry.

I think it'll be like the 70s when countless manufacturers went out of business and closed up shop. The little guys are going to be the first to go. If this downturn continues for a long time, we may only be left with the big 3 standing in the end, seriously. It happened in the snowmobile industry in the 60s and 70s where the industry went from close to 100 manufacturers to the 4 that are left standing today.

In terms of what companies offer, I think you'll see more of a return to no-frills type boats and expanded value lineups. I think you'll see price increases slow down to let the rest of the economy catch up to the excessive price hikes the last 5-7 years have brought to the industry. You may even see prices being cut as production costs plateau. Most analysts are saying this fuel thing is a bubble and can't be sustained indefinitely, so costs to produce and transport shouldn't continue to rocket out of control.

Just a few thoughts...

[chrisallenhogs]

Even the people that can afford high gas prices don't like getting poked. I think we'll see a lot boats more floating and putting this summer. And boat sales are soft. They were last year and got to be a lot worse this year.

I think boat sales are soft, but Ski/Wake boat sales are up year over year. This could be due to price increases but there still seems to be some strength in this part of the market. And I don't believe that going form $2.50 gas to $4.00 gas has that much effect on the economy. It is so media driven and that is what is scaring people away. I can't turn on the TV without hearing the doom and gloom and yet our economy is still growing, unemployment is still low, and worker productivity is up.

[BlastRlxi]

To 88's point, I'll add that any thoughts I might have been entertaining about getting a new ride are now gone. I could afford a new one if I really wanted it, but the uncertainty in the economy is enough to keep me from it. I own my boat outright, and I just can't see sinking double the money it would take to put me in a new boat equipped the same way.

I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of people in the same situation. Then add in the people who are making payments on a boat today. Some are enthusiastic about boating, and may or may not be interested in trading up (and paying more each month). But some are not so enthusiastic, especially when push comes to shove and they are trying to figure out how to pay for the gas to have that fun, they are going to decide it isn't so important to them. Many will try to sell to get out from under it. Suddenly the manufacturers are now also having to compete with a larger used boat market, many of which are relatively low hour boats with much lower price than a new one.

The marine industry is in for some serious restructuring - no doubt about it.

How do you go about restructuring the marine industry? Seriously? By restructuring do you mean drop prices? Make cheaper, smaller boats? Or do they make a lesser quality boat that cost less, resulting in a much lower resale value? I'm not trying to be a smart a$%...just interested in hearing what your thoughts are in reference to how to restructure the industry.

If they follow other industries, like the steel industry, there will be consolidation among the boat companies. Mastercraft could merge with Tige, CC could merge with Supra, etc... When all is said and done, there may be only 2-3 major players left in the skiboat industry with all the smaller players either bought out or run out of business by the new larger boat builders. I think we will see it even more in the bowrider and small fishing boat industries, but it is certainly possible for skiboat builders as well.

[MalibuTime]

To 88's point, I'll add that any thoughts I might have been entertaining about getting a new ride are now gone. I could afford a new one if I really wanted it, but the uncertainty in the economy is enough to keep me from it. I own my boat outright, and I just can't see sinking double the money it would take to put me in a new boat equipped the same way.

I'd be willing to bet there are a lot of people in the same situation. Then add in the people who are making payments on a boat today. Some are enthusiastic about boating, and may or may not be interested in trading up (and paying more each month). But some are not so enthusiastic, especially when push comes to shove and they are trying to figure out how to pay for the gas to have that fun, they are going to decide it isn't so important to them. Many will try to sell to get out from under it. Suddenly the manufacturers are now also having to compete with a larger used boat market, many of which are relatively low hour boats with much lower price than a new one.

The marine industry is in for some serious restructuring - no doubt about it.

How do you go about restructuring the marine industry? Seriously? By restructuring do you mean drop prices? Make cheaper, smaller boats? Or do they make a lesser quality boat that cost less, resulting in a much lower resale value? I'm not trying to be a smart a$%...just interested in hearing what your thoughts are in reference to how to restructure the industry.

All of the above, companies will try different things to see what works. Look for manufacturers to go under, or be consolidated similar to what Brunswick has done, they have 49 marine brands. Don't be surprised if MasterCraft or another brand is picked up by Brunswick, (who is probably hurting bigtime, though) or another company with deep pockets. Heck, imagine Malibu picking up MC, stopping all R&D on MC and just milking out their current designs, building with cheaper (yet) materials and positioning as a price point leader below Malibu, and keeping Malibu as their Lexus line. That is the type of consolidation that could happen.

[88Skier]

I just had this conversation yesterday with a friend that owns a small marina on a lake. He said if this keeps up for a couple years, he wondered if his property would be worth more if he converted it to a house, because so few would be boating, his sales will drop way off. I said as long as there's people like me, there would be boaters. I'd rather have a 15 footer with a 40 hp than no boat at all. Maybe there will be a bigger market for smaller boats. Boats in our area have gotten huge in the past 10 years. Madman, heres your chance to make a bundle tapping the new market for cool, smaller fuel efficent boats.

[SunriseH2OSkier]

No offense taken, good questions Madman. Primarily what I laid out above (and others have just added) - fewer manufacturers, fewer plants building boats. It's all about reducing structural costs so that a manufacturer can make enough margin on a sale to stay in business. Excess capacity and lots of competition go directly against the ability to do so.

But I can imagine that in order to generate enough revenue, the companies that remain will need to introduce boats that are at that lower end of the market. I do not believe 'lower quality' is an acceptable way to accomplish this - there will still be competition in the marketplace, and quality is a given if you want to survive, no matter the price point. But fewer features, cheaper materials, etc. will be necessary. Some companies may choose to do this from the ground up. Others may decide that the quickest/most effective way is to swallow up a smaller company that already has something in that market.

Believe me, working for an automotive company I am painfully aware that there are some costs that just cannot be avoided, that will necessarily cause the low end of the market to be much higher than it used to be. Emission regulations are a huge drvier of this. All the more reason to believe that the pool of potential custormers for new boats is going to be that much smaller. People need ground transportation of some form to navigate life. The same cannot be said for boats.

Edited June 3, 2008 by SunriseH2OSkier

[SunriseH2OSkier]

And I don't believe that going form $2.50 gas to $4.00 gas has that much effect on the economy. It is so media driven and that is what is scaring people away. I can't turn on the TV without hearing the doom and gloom and yet our economy is still growing, unemployment is still low, and worker productivity is up.

No offense, but I think you are a bit naive to think the $4 gas doesn't have much effect on the economy. Is it doom and gloom reported by the press? Maybe. But perception is reality. And when that perception is held by would be consumers, that is bad news for luxury items like boats. Remember - this site tends to be made up of a relatively affluent population that may not be as impacted by the economic conditions as others. Doesn't mean the economy isn't hurting.

[88Skier]

Money is relative. When times are good and real estate prices are strong enough to bail people out of whatever financial issues they have, people look at $50,000 or $100,000 as not a lot of money. When the economy and real estate market are in the tank and the only way to pay down debt is with monthly payments, then $50k or $100k becomes a S load of money. I saw it in the early 90's and I'm seeing it now.

Edited June 3, 2008 by 88Skier

[VinRLX]

Don't be surprised if MasterCraft or another brand is picked up by Brunswick, (who is probably hurting bigtime, though)

Maybe Malibu will pick up Brunswick?

[UWSkier]

Don't be surprised if MasterCraft or another brand is picked up by Brunswick, (who is probably hurting bigtime, though)

Maybe Malibu will pick up Brunswick?

Brunswick is doing alright. They were real close to picking up Polaris Industries (PII) a few months ago but it appears those talks have stalled out. I don't think it'd be that farfetched to see them pick up a premium towboat line, especially if that company ends up going in the tank in the coming years. I think they'd probably pick off something like Skier's Choice though before one of the big 3. That gets them 2 lines in 1 acquisition.

[1FootDan]

Sorry guys, could youplease start another post to discuss gas prices, this one is about the 2009 line-up.

[UWSkier]

Sorry guys, could youplease start another post to discuss gas prices, this one is about the 2009 line-up.

Nobody really knows anything or if they do, they ain't talkin. The factory switches over next week. We should know what's coming very soon.

Edited June 3, 2008 by UWSkier

[99response]

And I don't believe that going form $2.50 gas to $4.00 gas has that much effect on the economy. It is so media driven and that is what is scaring people away. I can't turn on the TV without hearing the doom and gloom and yet our economy is still growing, unemployment is still low, and worker productivity is up.

No offense, but I think you are a bit naive to think the $4 gas doesn't have much effect on the economy. Is it doom and gloom reported by the press? Maybe. But perception is reality. And when that perception is held by would be consumers, that is bad news for luxury items like boats. Remember - this site tends to be made up of a relatively affluent population that may not be as impacted by the economic conditions as others. Doesn't mean the economy isn't hurting.

Also for alot of people having a boat means having a nice big truck that can tow the boat, and it is a one two punch in fuel cost.

-Chris

[VinRLX]

Sorry guys, could youplease start another post to discuss gas prices, this one is about the 2009 line-up.

Nobody really knows anything or if they do, they ain't talkin. The factory switches over next week. We should know what's coming very soon.

Yeah, come on. It's not like you started the thread or anything! Oh, wait, never mind. . .

Hey! Did you all see that the 2009 Malibu site is LIVE???