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KSilva

2007 23 LSV Sunscape or 21 VLX

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KSilva

Hi,

I am new to this website and have some questions.

The family is looking to purchase a new 2007 Malibu. The dealer that I am going with has two boats that we like.

White/Red 23 Sunscape LSV - This boat has the power wedge, tower, heater, dual batt., 6 speakers with amp...but no ballast.

Black/Yellow 21 VLX - This VLX has the ballast system, power wedge, heater, 4 speakers, dual batt., and a bunch of other things.

Yellow/Black - 4 speakers, heater, ballast system, wedge....

We are stuck... We really like the 23 LSV, but are worried about how the wakes are going to be, only having body weight and the power wedge. I've notice that people who own Sunscape's are having a hard time selling them... Is this because of that ballast?

Is there a big difference in the power wedge to the non power wedge? How does the non power wedge work?

I'm sorry for all the questions, but it's a ton of money that we will be spending on this boat....

Thank you in advance for your time, and information.

Kevin

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skicrave

Hey Kevin, welcome to the site!

To give you valuable feedback, we really need to know a little more about what your expectations are for the boat.

- Is this your first boat, or are you coming from something else. If so, what is it?

- What are your primary use intentions for the boat, and how much time with they get? For example: wakeboard 50%, ski 30%, tube 10%, cruise 10%.

- What level of watersports experience do the primary people that use the boat have?

- How many people do you typically have on the boat for a day?

Let us know the answers to those questions and we'll be able to give you more accurate input.

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Matt_Alger

Kevin,

Welcome to the crew.

The 23 Sunscape should have the diamond hull rather than the wake hull which also means less wake. Yes, you can add sacks to the boat later if desired but that doesn't help resale value and you can't change the hull. If you are advanced boarders then you will probably want the wake hull which is likely the hull on the VLX but it can be ordered with the diamond hull as well. The primary question between the 23' and 21.5' boats is how many people do you regularly have in your boat.

A couple of thoughts to muddy the water. I would start with pricing a new '08 23' LSV with everything you want. It is an all new design so you would have the latest hull design. That gives a good baseline as to how much $ you are saving to give up everything that you may want. Whe I was looking to buy my VTX I had planned to buy used or a leftover 07 but after pricing a new 08 it was worth the extra money to me to get everything that I wanted. Also, the VLX will be re-designed in 2009 model year which could be picked up by late summer.

I will let someone with more experience comment on the wedge vs power wedge.

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KSilva

- Is this your first boat, or are you coming from something else. If so, what is it? No, this will be our 2nd boat. We had a 1987 Reinell that we had for 22 years, just sold it about a month ago...

- What are your primary use intentions for the boat, and how much time with they get? For example: wakeboard 50%, ski 15%, tube 10%, cruise 10%, knee board 15% - We are looking at trying out wake surfing this year... (If we pick up a boat by then)

- What level of watersports experience do the primary people that use the boat have? We are all beginners when it comes to wake boarding, we go out to have fun on the water... I would say that we have been wake boarding for the last 2-3 years.

- How many people do you typically have on the boat for a day? We have about 9-10 people with us... 3 kids and the rest are adults.

Edited by KSilva

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KSilva
Kevin,

Welcome to the crew.

The 23 Sunscape should have the diamond hull rather than the wake hull which also means less wake. Yes, you can add sacks to the boat later if desired but that doesn't help resale value and you can't change the hull. If you are advanced boarders then you will probably want the wake hull which is likely the hull on the VLX but it can be ordered with the diamond hull as well. The primary question between the 23' and 21.5' boats is how many people do you regularly have in your boat.

A couple of thoughts to muddy the water. I would start with pricing a new '08 23' LSV with everything you want. It is an all new design so you would have the latest hull design. That gives a good baseline as to how much $ you are saving to give up everything that you may want. Whe I was looking to buy my VTX I had planned to buy used or a leftover 07 but after pricing a new 08 it was worth the extra money to me to get everything that I wanted. Also, the VLX will be re-designed in 2009 model year which could be picked up by late summer.

I will let someone with more experience comment on the wedge vs power wedge.

I think both boats had the same hull, which i think was the diamond hull. I priced an 08 to the 07 and it was about a 5-6 thousand dollar difference.

Man, this is killing me!

I went from looking at Calabria's to Centurions... From Centurions to Sangers and from Sangers to Malibu....

Kevin

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auto
- Is this your first boat, or are you coming from something else. If so, what is it? No, this will be our 2nd boat. We had a 1987 Reinell that we had for 22 years, just sold it about a month ago...

- What are your primary use intentions for the boat, and how much time with they get? For example: wakeboard 50%, ski 15%, tube 10%, cruise 10%, knee board 15% - We are looking at trying out wake surfing this year... (If we pick up a boat by then)

- What level of watersports experience do the primary people that use the boat have? We are all beginners when it comes to wake boarding, we go out to have fun on the water... I would say that we have been wake boarding for the last 2-3 years.

- How many people do you typically have on the boat for a day? We have about 9-10 people with us... 3 kids and the rest are adults.

VLX will not tube.

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KSilva
- Is this your first boat, or are you coming from something else. If so, what is it? No, this will be our 2nd boat. We had a 1987 Reinell that we had for 22 years, just sold it about a month ago...

- What are your primary use intentions for the boat, and how much time with they get? For example: wakeboard 50%, ski 15%, tube 10%, cruise 10%, knee board 15% - We are looking at trying out wake surfing this year... (If we pick up a boat by then)

- What level of watersports experience do the primary people that use the boat have? We are all beginners when it comes to wake boarding, we go out to have fun on the water... I would say that we have been wake boarding for the last 2-3 years.

- How many people do you typically have on the boat for a day? We have about 9-10 people with us... 3 kids and the rest are adults.

VLX will not tube.

It won't? Why not?

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skicrave

It will, he's just being a smart a$$. :)

Quite frankly, either one of these boats will offer plenty of wake for quite some time to come.

Based on the fact that you typically have a large crew out with you, the 23 is definitely the right choice. The VLX is rated for 11 people, but really anything more than 6 gets cramped if you do it regularly.

The 23 will have the Diamond hull as mentioned above, which is going to make it a better all around watersports boat than wakeboard/wakesurf boat, but again, with just a few years of riding experience, and coming from an I/O, you're going to love the wake behind either boat.

The biggest issue with the 23 will be the lack of ballast for surfing. You're going to have need some aftermarket ballast in addition to the power Wedge to get the wake you'll want out of it. But compared with spending the extra money on an '08, that's a minor hassle.

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auto
It won't? Why not?

I have had 3 VLX's, non of them will tow a tube, just the way the boat works. I wish more boats worked that way :Doh:ROFL.gif

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KSilva
It will, he's just being a smart a$$. :)

Quite frankly, either one of these boats will offer plenty of wake for quite some time to come.

Based on the fact that you typically have a large crew out with you, the 23 is definitely the right choice. The VLX is rated for 11 people, but really anything more than 6 gets cramped if you do it regularly.

The 23 will have the Diamond hull as mentioned above, which is going to make it a better all around watersports boat than wakeboard/wakesurf boat, but again, with just a few years of riding experience, and coming from an I/O, you're going to love the wake behind either boat.

The biggest issue with the 23 will be the lack of ballast for surfing. You're going to have need some aftermarket ballast in addition to the power Wedge to get the wake you'll want out of it. But compared with spending the extra money on an '08, that's a minor hassle.

What could it take to get a good wake for surfing with the Sunscape 23 w/power wedge?

Below are pictures to the boats that I am looking at.

pasovlx.jpg - (no power wedge) ---- I really like the color of this boat... it looks sooo sick, but is just missing the power wedge....

IMG_1195.jpg

- Sunscape 23 LSV... Power wedge, heater, dual batts, 6 speakers with amp...

HPIM0353.jpg

- VLX (no power wedge) ---- Loaded... power wedge, everything dual batts

Does anyone know, is there a big diff in the power wedge and non power wedge?

Edited by KSilva

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KSilva
It won't? Why not?

I have had 3 VLX's, non of them will tow a tube, just the way the boat works. I wish more boats worked that way :Doh:ROFL.gif

Okay... I don't really tube, it's for my brothers kids...lol Innocent.gif hahahahah

Good times, Good times.....

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Muffintop
It will, he's just being a smart a$$. :)

Quite frankly, either one of these boats will offer plenty of wake for quite some time to come.

Based on the fact that you typically have a large crew out with you, the 23 is definitely the right choice. The VLX is rated for 11 people, but really anything more than 6 gets cramped if you do it regularly.

The 23 will have the Diamond hull as mentioned above, which is going to make it a better all around watersports boat than wakeboard/wakesurf boat, but again, with just a few years of riding experience, and coming from an I/O, you're going to love the wake behind either boat.

The biggest issue with the 23 will be the lack of ballast for surfing. You're going to have need some aftermarket ballast in addition to the power Wedge to get the wake you'll want out of it. But compared with spending the extra money on an '08, that's a minor hassle.

What could it take to get a good wake for surfing with the Sunscape 23 w/power wedge?

Below are pictures to the boats that I am looking at.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g303/kev...08/HPIM0353.jpg - This one is loaded

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g303/kev...08/IMG_1195.jpg - LSV

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g303/kev...a08/pasovlx.jpg - VLX (no power wedge)

Does anyone know, is there a big diff in the power wedge and non power wedge?

Power wedge is a push button operation, very simple- BUT it sometimes blows fuses and/or whole mechanisms as mine did.

Non Power Wedge- tougher to use(but not that tough), but guarnteed not to blow a fuse and be stuck in the 3/4 down position and strand you.

50-50 on the call- both are good and bad.

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pennery

I don;t think I would buy a Wake Boat without at least some sort of Automatic ballast these days especially if you are getting into Wake Surfing... That would kill the re-sale value of it IMO... I would be going for the VLX.. I had 6 people and my 3 month old in his huge car seat in my VLX this morning and I didn't think it was crowded at all.. I came from a Direct Drive that we regularily had about 7-8 people on board..

I have the manual wedge on mine and think it is fine but I do not have any experience with the power wedge.

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KSilva
I don;t think I would buy a Wake Boat without at least some sort of Automatic ballast these days especially if you are getting into Wake Surfing... That would kill the re-sale value of it IMO... I would be going for the VLX.. I had 6 people and my 3 month old in his huge car seat in my VLX this morning and I didn't think it was crowded at all.. I came from a Direct Drive that we regularily had about 7-8 people on board..

I have the manual wedge on mine and think it is fine but I do not have any experience with the power wedge.

How does the manual wedge work? Does it lock into position, or does it move to the speed of the boat? I know with the power wedge you can position it to how big you want your wake...

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pennery

The Manual Wedge changed in 07 to the Free Floating Wedge and it does not lock into place and floats for the optimal angle of the boat.. There is no adjustment though..

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fever5

I would go for the VLX:

- better resale (sunscape what's that?); if you need more room VLX go to wakesetter 23 LSV

- ballast

- optimized for creating a wake

- did i say better resale?

To me the sunscape series seems antiquated. I've never seen a single one around here. It's too much of a generalized 'meets all needs' which means its not really optimized for any particular sport. might as well get a cobalt Whistling.gif (just kidding). i'm sure it has its place but this is what I'd do (as mentioned previously): price a wakesetter 23 LSV vs VLX. forget sunscape

As for room, the 23 LSV is subjectively quite a bit bigger than the VLX, however the other question I'd say is unless you have a LARGE family (think Brady bunch) VLX is probably perfect. It's always nice to think about how many people you could fit it, but call me selfish, I find I have such limitd time to ride as it is, the more people I bring = less ride time (also to be polite) and more gas burned. (i am joking). I've had 11 ppl in my boat most of last summer and it was only a huge problem if everyone is going boarding. if not, you just keep most of the non riders up front. the VLX isn't tiny either. A vRide however is more on the tiny side of things and I wouldn't want to put more than 4-6 in that even though they definitely have their place in the market.

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jtrovato

I say spend the extra $5,000-6,000 and get the new 23 LSV with everything you want on it. It's a small price to pay when you're talking $55k+ for the boat in the first place. If you regularly have that many people in the boat, you'll appreciate the 23 footer. You'll also be kicking yourself in a year or two for not having ballast if you go with the Sunscape. The VLX may be fine for you, but the fact that you're having a hard time deciding between it and a 23, I'd pony up the extra $$ if you can afford it and get exactly what you want. Don't sacrifice in one area to gain in another or you'll always wonder what it would have been like if you went with the other one.

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jtrovato
I would go for the VLX:

- better resale (sunscape what's that?); if you need more room VLX go to wakesetter 23 LSV

- ballast

- optimized for creating a wake

- did i say better resale?

To me the sunscape series seems antiquated. I've never seen a single one around here. It's too much of a generalized 'meets all needs' which means its not really optimized for any particular sport. might as well get a cobalt Whistling.gif (just kidding). i'm sure it has its place but this is what I'd do (as mentioned previously): price a wakesetter 23 LSV vs VLX. forget sunscape

As for room, the 23 LSV is subjectively quite a bit bigger than the VLX, however the other question I'd say is unless you have a LARGE family (think Brady bunch) VLX is probably perfect. It's always nice to think about how many people you could fit it, but call me selfish, I find I have such limitd time to ride as it is, the more people I bring = less ride time (also to be polite) and more gas burned. (i am joking). I've had 11 ppl in my boat most of last summer and it was only a huge problem if everyone is going boarding. if not, you just keep most of the non riders up front. the VLX isn't tiny either. A vRide however is more on the tiny side of things and I wouldn't want to put more than 4-6 in that even though they definitely have their place in the market.

Have you ever been in a vRide? They are smaller than a VLX, but certainly not limited to 4-6 people if you're saying you put 11 in your VLX and were comfortable. I've had 8 adults in the vRide and been very comfortable (2-3 up in the bow and 5 out back). The VLX is only 4.5" wider and 6" longer than the vRide, with deeper gunnels. I don't think that equals 5 extra people.

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KSilva

I think the LSV is going to be a bit too much... I'm coming in from 1987 Reinell.... 18 ft boat... Jumping into a 21 VLX is going be plenty of room....lol

The two black and yellow boats are pretty much what i' am looking at... The one with the black hull and yellow stripes is loaded.... The one with the yellow hull is missing the 2nd battery and the power wedge... only difference... The 2nd battery is not a big deal... for 150 bucks I can have my local Malibu dealer do it for me...

MAN THIS IS KILLING ME!!!!

Kevin

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LSVSharks

Get the boat you want. I think either of the VLX's are great boats. I have the 23 WS LSV. I love it. Big boat though. I found that out trying to put it in my side yard - it is in inches that it fits. Good luck. From where you are coming from to the VLX will be a GI-HUG-NORMOUS difference. What motors do the VLX come in?

Brad

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KSilva
Get the boat you want. I think either of the VLX's are great boats. I have the 23 WS LSV. I love it. Big boat though. I found that out trying to put it in my side yard - it is in inches that it fits. Good luck. From where you are coming from to the VLX will be a GI-HUG-NORMOUS difference. What motors do the VLX come in?

Brad

I think the motors were the standard Chevy motors 320 or 340 hp....

I'll have to double check...

Kevin

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Matt_Alger

Kevin,

Was the $5k - $6k between a 07 and 08 VLX or the 07 23 LSV Sunsetter to an 08 23 LSV Wakesetter?

If it was the 23 LSV Sunsetter to the 23 LSV Wakesetter that is clearly worth the price if you have all the options you want on the 08 23 LSV Wakesetter. Right now $6k may seem like a lot but if that is truly all the price difference that you are being quoted it is a no brainer and you will more than make that up in resale value and if you aren't planning to sell anytime in the next 5 years then the $6k is a drop in the bucket for all the extra fun the built in ballast will deliver alonght with the other options (like heated driver's seat, rider pre-sets, etc...) that you will get to enjoy.

If you are set on one of the VLX's it seems that floating wedge vs power wedge is the only concern. I understand the frustration anyone would have if the power wedge was stuck part way down and ruined the day. I almost went with the floating wedge for the same concern (that and I could add a Scarpa Supression Plate for barefooting if I wanted). However, the PITA of moving up and down my old manual wedge stuck in my head. Jumping out and in the boat every time you want to raise or lower the wedge. Since my family skis, foots and wakeboards and not every wakeboarder uses the wedge it was frustrating always jumping in the water to raise or lower the wedge. I know they have an access port on the swim platform but it was much easier to jump in the water and make sure it was locked up or down.

Wakesurfing might give an advantage to the power wedge but that comment isn't from first hand experience.

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KSilva
Kevin,

Was the $5k - $6k between a 07 and 08 VLX or the 07 23 LSV Sunsetter to an 08 23 LSV Wakesetter?

If it was the 23 LSV Sunsetter to the 23 LSV Wakesetter that is clearly worth the price if you have all the options you want on the 08 23 LSV Wakesetter. Right now $6k may seem like a lot but if that is truly all the price difference that you are being quoted it is a no brainer and you will more than make that up in resale value and if you aren't planning to sell anytime in the next 5 years then the $6k is a drop in the bucket for all the extra fun the built in ballast will deliver alonght with the other options (like heated driver's seat, rider pre-sets, etc...) that you will get to enjoy.

If you are set on one of the VLX's it seems that floating wedge vs power wedge is the only concern. I understand the frustration anyone would have if the power wedge was stuck part way down and ruined the day. I almost went with the floating wedge for the same concern (that and I could add a Scarpa Supression Plate for barefooting if I wanted). However, the PITA of moving up and down my old manual wedge stuck in my head. Jumping out and in the boat every time you want to raise or lower the wedge. Since my family skis, foots and wakeboards and not every wakeboarder uses the wedge it was frustrating always jumping in the water to raise or lower the wedge. I know they have an access port on the swim platform but it was much easier to jump in the water and make sure it was locked up or down.

Wakesurfing might give an advantage to the power wedge but that comment isn't from first hand experience.

The price diff. was with the VLX, I didn't even bother to ask about the LSV.

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zornman

Speaking for someone with a Sunscape, I'd go with the Wakesetter. Although I don't think people are losing too much money in resale, they are having a much harder time finding a buyer for a Sunscape. I was suckered into the arguement that the VLX was a bad boat for skiing. If you are not trying to ski a course, you probably aren't the type of skier who will really care that the VLX has a larger wake. If you learned to ski behind an I/O, the VLX is much better. I started skiing when I was 5, but I would kill for a better boarding wake now. In fact, I still have not figured out how to get a good boarding wake from my Sunscape. I'm hoping more weight and a new prop (to get the loaded slug moving) will help. I just started boarding last year and can jump wtw behind many other boats, but I can't do it on mine.

As for surfing, I am able to get a very good surf wake, but it takes a LOT of weight. My normal set up is one 750 in port V-Drive locker with a partially filled 400 on top of that, one 370 bag filled as much as possible under the port seats, one 370 pound bag in the ski locker, 400 pound bag in the bow on port side, manual (locked) wedge and 2-5 people scattered port side on the boat. I'm adding automated ballast right now, but I will still probably add extra weight for surfing.

I definitely would get exactly what you want and spend the extra now. It'll cost me $20k+ to change to a new VLX now...Good luck!!

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KSilva
Speaking for someone with a Sunscape, I'd go with the Wakesetter. Although I don't think people are losing too much money in resale, they are having a much harder time finding a buyer for a Sunscape. I was suckered into the arguement that the VLX was a bad boat for skiing. If you are not trying to ski a course, you probably aren't the type of skier who will really care that the VLX has a larger wake. If you learned to ski behind an I/O, the VLX is much better. I started skiing when I was 5, but I would kill for a better boarding wake now. In fact, I still have not figured out how to get a good boarding wake from my Sunscape. I'm hoping more weight and a new prop (to get the loaded slug moving) will help. I just started boarding last year and can jump wtw behind many other boats, but I can't do it on mine.

As for surfing, I am able to get a very good surf wake, but it takes a LOT of weight. My normal set up is one 750 in port V-Drive locker with a partially filled 400 on top of that, one 370 bag filled as much as possible under the port seats, one 370 pound bag in the ski locker, 400 pound bag in the bow on port side, manual (locked) wedge and 2-5 people scattered port side on the boat. I'm adding automated ballast right now, but I will still probably add extra weight for surfing.

I definitely would get exactly what you want and spend the extra now. It'll cost me $20k+ to change to a new VLX now...Good luck!!

WOW.... You have no idea how much you just helped me.... THANK YOU SOOO MUCH.... I am speechless... Really.... I'm working on looking around for the best deal....

Thanks again...

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