ready to do(try) an invert

[txwakejunkie]

Practice on a trampoline first. Makes a huge difference!!!

I'm also at the point where I too should be trying inverts. Although I'm not sure my body is ready to "start" this kind of thing at my age. So just a few weeks ago I bought a trampoline "for the kids". I've heard many times to practice this kind of thing on a trampoline, but I've yet to have the stones to try it yet having never done a flip before, although my kids are flipping all over the place. For some reason I'm thinking if I'm going to land on my head, I'd rather do it on the water.

We bought a trampoline a while back and cut down an old board to practice with. My wife can do tantrums and whirly's on the trampoline. I can jump, Im trying back flips but had a bad landing once a long time ago, and im still trying to get over the fear of landing on the ground instead of the tramp.

If your wife can do a whirly on a tramp then she is ready for a tantrum. Don't let her get in habit of throwing too many whirlies because that will get in her in the habit of throwing a tantrum over her rear shoulder and she'll do tantrums that same way, which will then make it harder to add some grabs to her tantrums. Have fun.

She took some gymnastics classes in college and has always been a tumbler. She is pretty comfortable upside down and twisting. I know she can do it if she trys, but building the courage for the first try is going to be tuff.

[txwakejunkie]

There is still a lot of style to be added going w2w instead of "just" jumping the wake. I'd also learn some grabs first as well. Do all the grabs, poke a leg out/bone it, grab blind, go nuclear, heli, backscratcher, etc. Then do it switched. This would allow u to start to get that sensation of moving the board while keeping the board under you when landing and spotting the landings.

I learned my first invert (backside backroll) behind a 04 vlx with no ballast. Mainly because the pro that was teaching me would not let me cheat with bad form. So my advice is to go get lessons from someone that is a good teacher. You'll learn faster, get immediate feedback on what went wrong and have much more fun down the road, as well as doing it safely. No need for a helmet, but wear a nice firm life jacket to cushion some of the under and over rotations, and face it you'll get a couple of eye peelers too. Just part of learning. But once you land it, you'll have a hard time wiping that smile off your face!

This is my advice, but there are many methods of describing the feeling... you'll just have to learn that for yourself:

Progressive edge, load the line and stand tall! That's the thoughts I have going into any invert. On the Roll, load the line by edging all the way through the wake away from the boat. Then turn your head over you right shoulder (if goofy foot) and spot your landing. Think of the rope/tower as throwing you across like a pendulum. Let physics do its thing and don't try to help it. Landings are much softer if you can hit the opposite wake on the downside, but you'll probably not do that for a while. Tough if you hit into the wake, so avoid it!!

I did not try it on the trampoline first. If you are not comfortable with flipping on things like a trampoline, perhaps you should think about it before trying it. You have to commit, and then DO IT. If you are afraid or do it half azz, then that is when things go wrong more often.

I've seen more backrolls landed than tantrums from beginners and if in competition the tantrum gets more points so it is somewhat more difficult to get the feeling.

I learned the Backside Roll-to-Revert as my second invert, then tantrum.

great info. Im not affraid of jumping or getting upside down, I was doing backflips on the tramp one day and landed with one leg on the trap and one wasn't.

I have been working on it an feel like I am getting over it.

Maybe if i wear my helmet on the tramp it would help.

Edited May 13, 2008 by txwakejunkie

[JohnDoe]

Have her stand on edge of platform on the side with a rope tied to the tower so it's tight. Then have her do a backflip to simulate the feeling of tha handle and the look of the water when her head comes around.

dizzy, I hate to do it, but I have to chime in on the terminology you're using. "cartwheels" are not rolls, they are flips. A front flip is a true cartwheel with the board going end over end. The definition of a roll is an invert that is led by one of the edge, as opposed to a tip. Hence, a heelside backrolls is led by the heelside edge of the board, a toeside backroll is led by the toeside, but rotation is back, a toeside front roll is like a flront flip on a trampoline, but is distinctly different from a toeside front flip because the roll is not a cartwheel, it is led by the toeside edge. I think you know what you're looking for, but some others might get confused.

[txwakejunkie]

ok, all good info!!

Last question before we give it a shot. She rides 21.5mph at 65-70ft and I ride 23mph at 70-75ft. Should we learn it at our comfortable speeds and rope lengths or slow down and shorten up?

[JohnDoe]

My personal opinion is it depends on how hard you're having to edge to cross the wake. For learning rolls and tantrums, I'd say you want to edge about 60-70%. I'd shorten up to whatever length allows to land in other trough comfortably. I always learned new moves at 50 feet at about 20...but thats just what I felt comfortable with, do whatever you feel comfortable with.

[txwakejunkie]

My personal opinion is it depends on how hard you're having to edge to cross the wake. For learning rolls and tantrums, I'd say you want to edge about 60-70%. I'd shorten up to whatever length allows to land in other trough comfortably. I always learned new moves at 50 feet at about 20...but thats just what I felt comfortable with, do whatever you feel comfortable with.

The wake is narrow for me, I like to try to go up and not out. I think it might be alittle wide for her, we will shorten the rope a bit to start and go from there.

Thanks to all for the info and we will update as we learn.

Edited May 13, 2008 by txwakejunkie

[Lieutenant Dan]

Practice on a trampoline first. Makes a huge difference!!!

I'm also at the point where I too should be trying inverts. Although I'm not sure my body is ready to "start" this kind of thing at my age. So just a few weeks ago I bought a trampoline "for the kids". I've heard many times to practice this kind of thing on a trampoline, but I've yet to have the stones to try it yet having never done a flip before, although my kids are flipping all over the place. For some reason I'm thinking if I'm going to land on my head, I'd rather do it on the water.

We bought a trampoline a while back and cut down an old board to practice with. My wife can do tantrums and whirly's on the trampoline. I can jump, Im trying back flips but had a bad landing once a long time ago, and im still trying to get over the fear of landing on the ground instead of the tramp.

If your wife can do a whirly on a tramp then she is ready for a tantrum. Don't let her get in habit of throwing too many whirlies because that will get in her in the habit of throwing a tantrum over her rear shoulder and she'll do tantrums that same way, which will then make it harder to add some grabs to her tantrums. Have fun.

She took some gymnastics classes in college and has always been a tumbler. She is pretty comfortable upside down and twisting. I know she can do it if she trys, but building the courage for the first try is going to be tuff.

I tried a little (ok, maybe more than just a little) Captain Morgan before I did my first try. For me, after that first try or two you get over the fear. BTW, I still haven't landed one (backroll) but I tried a number of times. Perhaps this year will be my year....I have a few months yet to acheive my goal of landing my first invert before I turn 50!

[txwakejunkie]

courage in a bottle huh. I will have to remember that.

[Bill_AirJunky]

A number of years ago a handfull of us went to a gymnastics studio in the winter & learned how to do inverts on a trampoline. It was a lot of fun..... great winter activity..... and we learned a lot about air sense, keeping your eyes open, spotting your landing, and adjusting the rotation speed in the middle or even late in the rotation.

One thing I learned in the long run: big, slow inverts are easier to land & hurt a LOT less when you crash. I've found that most guys will come screaming into the wake & huck that invert hard & fast. Their tough to slow down to ride away & the crashes can be miserable. So concentrating on things like a nice clean cut, BIG pop off the wake, and keeping the handle in on your hip (for a wake roll) seem to make things a LOT better. If you do it like that, even the crashes don't seem to hurt as bad, you just come around & land the board/foil on the water & fall over.

Get yourself a helmet...... and keep your day job.

Get video of your attempts. Show them to us for more tips (and a few laughs).

And GOOD LUCK!

Another thing I found...... one you can land a back roll.... front rolls are a piece of cake.

[txwakejunkie]

A number of years ago a handfull of us went to a gymnastics studio in the winter & learned how to do inverts on a trampoline. It was a lot of fun..... great winter activity..... and we learned a lot about air sense, keeping your eyes open, spotting your landing, and adjusting the rotation speed in the middle or even late in the rotation.

One thing I learned in the long run: big, slow inverts are easier to land & hurt a LOT less when you crash. I've found that most guys will come screaming into the wake & huck that invert hard & fast. Their tough to slow down to ride away & the crashes can be miserable. So concentrating on things like a nice clean cut, BIG pop off the wake, and keeping the handle in on your hip (for a wake roll) seem to make things a LOT better. If you do it like that, even the crashes don't seem to hurt as bad, you just come around & land the board/foil on the water & fall over.

Get yourself a helmet...... and keep your day job.

Get video of your attempts. Show them to us for more tips (and a few laughs).

And GOOD LUCK!

Another thing I found...... one you can land a back roll.... front rolls are a piece of cake.

We both have helmets and a spare (just incase) and we will have some video for everyones amusement.

Edited May 13, 2008 by txwakejunkie

[Ronnie]

A number of years ago a handfull of us went to a gymnastics studio in the winter & learned how to do inverts on a trampoline. It was a lot of fun..... great winter activity..... and we learned a lot about air sense, keeping your eyes open, spotting your landing, and adjusting the rotation speed in the middle or even late in the rotation.

One thing I learned in the long run: big, slow inverts are easier to land & hurt a LOT less when you crash. I've found that most guys will come screaming into the wake & huck that invert hard & fast. Their tough to slow down to ride away & the crashes can be miserable. So concentrating on things like a nice clean cut, BIG pop off the wake, and keeping the handle in on your hip (for a wake roll) seem to make things a LOT better. If you do it like that, even the crashes don't seem to hurt as bad, you just come around & land the board/foil on the water & fall over.

Get yourself a helmet...... and keep your day job.

Get video of your attempts. Show them to us for more tips (and a few laughs).

And GOOD LUCK!

Another thing I found...... one you can land a back roll.... front rolls are a piece of cake.

We both have helmets and a spare (just incase) and we will have some video for everyones amusement.

[Liquidmx]

I skimmed through most of the responses and here is what I think... First and foremost do you have all your basics down? This is w2w toeside, hs, and preferrably switch hs (and ts, but VERY few can do this) plus all the 180's, grabbing with lead hand (method, melon, nose,) etc.?

The reason I ask is that most people step into the invert world with very little board control. Yes they can do some inverts, feel good and look cool, but the reality is they do not have the proper basics and will eventually need to learn them anyways. Commonly the price paid for not learning the basics in the proper order is injuries. I have been there myself. I landed my first whirly before I ever landed a bs 180 or 360. I landed a tantrum before ever learning 180's or switch w2w. The ultimate cost of having several inverts under my belt with little board control was: several sprained ankles, a couple concussions, a pulled abdomen muscle and a torn ACL (all seperate instances). IMHO learning the basics will not only make wakeboarding much more fun and enjoyable but save you a lot of potential pain and suffering both physically and financially. I also wrote a similar article which was published as "letter of the year" in alliance's december 07 issue.

With that said, provided you are ready (and dont have access to a coach or friend who does inverts), grab a instructional dvd. Either murray's new detention 2012 or the book would be good to get an idea. Then work on the trampoline, get some good aerial awareness and go make it happen.

Keep us posted.

[chathamsolutions]

good advice all. Thanks.

[wakeup]

I skimmed through most of the responses and here is what I think... First and foremost do you have all your basics down? This is w2w toeside, hs, and preferrably switch hs (and ts, but VERY few can do this) plus all the 180's, grabbing with lead hand (method, melon, nose,) etc.?

The reason I ask is that most people step into the invert world with very little board control. Yes they can do some inverts, feel good and look cool, but the reality is they do not have the proper basics and will eventually need to learn them anyways. Commonly the price paid for not learning the basics in the proper order is injuries. I have been there myself. I landed my first whirly before I ever landed a bs 180 or 360. I landed a tantrum before ever learning 180's or switch w2w. The ultimate cost of having several inverts under my belt with little board control was: several sprained ankles, a couple concussions, a pulled abdomen muscle and a torn ACL (all seperate instances). IMHO learning the basics will not only make wakeboarding much more fun and enjoyable but save you a lot of potential pain and suffering both physically and financially. I also wrote a similar article which was published as "letter of the year" in alliance's december 07 issue.

With that said, provided you are ready (and dont have access to a coach or friend who does inverts), grab a instructional dvd. Either murray's new detention 2012 or the book would be good to get an idea. Then work on the trampoline, get some good aerial awareness and go make it happen.

Keep us posted.

ditto and is exactly what I was trying to say in my post. Set yourself up now for success later. Most people jump from beginner/interm moves on to advanced without getting the basics (switch as well). Most of the time its a boat full of people trying to get someone to do their first flip and then its dragging that person out of the water with a concussion because they had no clue what they were doing.

As far as getting hurt on a trampoline, I use a cut-out from heavy duty Styrofoam type stuff (not sure what it is) around my ankles to hold my legs in the same position as a wakeboard. You'd be surprised how different it might feel.

Have fun and give it a try!

(I have the old Detention series and its a classic!)

[DizzyG]

I totally understand my terminology and what the trick is, I've n ever liked the naming convetions of rolls and other tricks. The best example is a toeside front roll, in all reality you are doing a front flip on the ground. It isn't at all like a hell backroll and a toeside backroll feels more like a toeside backflip than anything. It's all on witch edge of the board you are using as an axis I guess. Cartwheel always made sense to me for some reason.

Anyway, I agree with all of the statements about basics. You'll find it easier to land any invert if you are comfortable and in control of your board, but you can't always wait to try things. That's not always fun, just puts you at risk for harder crashes

When I get bored and am not ready to try something totally new, I try things I know how to do regular, but do them switch. IF you can do it one way, you should be able to the other. The boards are symetrical for a reason

[Arctic Slalom]

if you can do a backflip you can do a tantrum. There's more thought/timing involved in a tantrum than a backroll because you have to let go with one hand, switch edges and do the flip. It's still not a bad one to start with. The backroll is pretty easy thought process wise because all you do is cut in, and pretty much tip your head to your rear shoulder.

Whichever one you do first, don't do it "just a little bit" to see hwo it goes. All or nothing. Half of an invert is a land on your head. Throw it harder than you think you need to but make sure you wait until you are at the very top/off the wake. If you can, try to wait 1 second longer than you think you should, throwing them early won't help you either. But again, not a half try, do it all the way and you'll be surprised how close you get!

as yoda would say "do or do not, there is no try" how can you argue with a 900 year old, jedi master?

[txwakejunkie]

Didnt get a chance to wakeboard this weekend, lake was a soup bowl (lewisville) did a lot of surfing. Going to the river this weekend, we will try something.

updates to come.

Edited May 20, 2008 by txwakejunkie