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scotchipman

Zero Off

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scotchipman

Received the below email today. Looks like all throttle by wire boats will use Zero Off in the future. Does anyone know when Malibu will start to offer Zero Off?

Aquastar, Inc.'s Zero Off, and EControls, Inc., reach an agreement with PerfectPass regarding GPS speed control technology rights.

Zero Off, the leader in GPS speed control technology, and EControls, Inc., the manufacturer of Zero Off, have reached an agreement with PerfectPass, the respected long time industry speed control provider. The agreement states that starting with the 2009 boat model year, Zero Off will be the exclusive GPS speed control system provided by OEM boat manufacturers for all "Throttle by Wire" applications. This technology is utilized by most leading engine builders in the inboard and stern drive marine markets.

"This is positive and exciting news for professionals as well as recreational athletes and enthusiasts. This agreement provides standardization for training athletes, and consolidates the integration of the speed control and engine management system for improved reliability and robustness." - Jeremy Lessaris - Marketing Manager AquaStar, Inc.

"The decision to sell this division of our business was a difficult one for all of us", stated company President Eric Horton. "Ultimately, we recognized that EControls had a competitive advantage due to their existing engine controls business. They were a natural buyer of our business which fits perfectly into their existing business model. EControls is a superb company with a strong engineering and management team."

Since its inception Zero Off has gained momentum and skier acceptance through its performance, ease of operation, and proven track record. Zero Off has had great success over the past two years; passing AWSA testing, gaining AWSA tournament certification, becoming exclusive supply partners with Correct Craft for the 2008 model year, and working with major OEM boat manufacturers for the 2009 model year release. In addition, Zero Off has been chosen as the official speed control for the 2008 Masters Waterksi Tournament as well as the MasterCraft Pro Tour - including the US Open.

"We all can relate to how GPS has made our lives easier in many applications. Aquastar, Inc., Zero Off, and EControls, Inc., have brought true GPS technology to the Waterski and Wakeboard Industry. This announcement and this team paves the way for future technology advancements to the boating industry, and the sport of Waterski and Wakeboard." - Andy Mapple

"Zero Off has proven to be the leader in GPS based speed control both in 3 event skiing as well as the wakeboard market. I'm extremely excited to see the future advancements a company like Zero Off can bring to our sports." - Freddy Krueger

"I never felt so light and so strong behind a boat before I experienced Zero Off. I ran six out of six 39's off in a Pro Event last year in 2007. The system has enormous potential and it will increase the level of this sport, it's a tremendous tool for this industry." - Thomas Degasperi

"I feel comfortable putting anyone in the driver seat now that I can depend on Zero Off to do the job. Whether I need a straight line or a huge double up, I know my speed will be dead on." - Shaun Murray

For more information on Zero Off GPS speed control visit us online @ www.zerogps.com

The future of speed control is here!

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98mallybu

The new Perfect Pass Star Gazer is awesome, i had a couple buddies upgrade that ski the course often and had no complaints.

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Malibudude

Given Malibu has their own system (Malibu Cruise) doubtful they'll use it ZO or PP.

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mlange

What I don't understand yet from this is what exactly will they be doing with all the existing non-DBW boats. You'd think that it would make sense for them to add support for ZO to mechanical boats now. I believe the only thing stopping them before was that PP had a patent on how they linked into the throttle with the server motor, etc...

And what level of support are they going to be providing to all the new SG customers. For all the good things we've heard about the ZO pull I have yet to hear a good story about their customer service, which is where PP excelled.

Mike

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JohnDoe

Perhaps stargazer will be the preferred system for non-dbw. After reading a lot about zero-off's (apparent) lack of suppport in addressing jumping issues, my thought is that this is bad for all except 0 off.

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Well, maybe this way there will be less of a fight for who's speed control to use. That fight doesn't benefit any skiers. I skied ZO for the week I was at Ski Paradise and I thought the pull behind ZO was great, I feel just like Thomas D.'s comments about slalom.

I'll be very interested to hear what is to be used for non-dbw boats and what is going to be done for Jump as that's where the ZO systems fell very short.(no pun intended)

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Mike00LXI

Doesn't GPS pinpoint off of land based points of reference? and if so how does it factor in water currents?

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SacRiverRat
Doesn't GPS pinpoint off of land based points of reference? and if so how does it factor in water currents?

GPS is satalite based... but can't factor in water currents - would be inaccurate in any moving water

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JohnDoe
Doesn't GPS pinpoint off of land based points of reference? and if so how does it factor in water currents?

GPS is satalite based... but can't factor in water currents - would be inaccurate in any moving water

There are apparently settings for it though.

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SmoothWaterMan
Doesn't GPS pinpoint off of land based points of reference? and if so how does it factor in water currents?

GPS is satalite based... but can't factor in water currents - would be inaccurate in any moving water

GPS will actually be "accurate" in any water conditions, because it doesn't base anything on the water. You have to factor currents into speed based units using a paddlewheel or pitot tube, for those are "in-accurate" due to the moving water.

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SmoothWaterMan

PP will remain supplying stargazer units to all 2008 and older models, as well as the entire I/O market. Unfortunately they will not be in the skiboat market from 2009 on.....

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JohnDoe
Doesn't GPS pinpoint off of land based points of reference? and if so how does it factor in water currents?

GPS is satalite based... but can't factor in water currents - would be inaccurate in any moving water

GPS will actually be "accurate" in any water conditions, because it doesn't base anything on the water. You have to factor currents into speed based units using a paddlewheel or pitot tube, for those are "in-accurate" due to the moving water.

Don't you have that backwards? What matters is speed relative to water, not land. So, if going up current, in a 2mph current, if zero off is going 36, it's going 38 on the water, which is too fast, which is why ppass was preferred for current situations, because if ppass thought it was going 36, it was relative to the water, who cares if its just 34 relative to the shore.

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Addictedto6
Doesn't GPS pinpoint off of land based points of reference? and if so how does it factor in water currents?

GPS is satalite based... but can't factor in water currents - would be inaccurate in any moving water

GPS will actually be "accurate" in any water conditions, because it doesn't base anything on the water. You have to factor currents into speed based units using a paddlewheel or pitot tube, for those are "in-accurate" due to the moving water.

Don't you have that backwards? What matters is speed relative to water, not land. So, if going up current, in a 2mph current, if zero off is going 36, it's going 38 on the water, which is too fast, which is why ppass was preferred for current situations, because if ppass thought it was going 36, it was relative to the water, who cares if its just 34 relative to the shore.

For purposes of slalom course speed control, it's not relative to moving water, but instead fixed positions on the course (which is the equivalent of land in this case). It doesn't matter what the water is doing - the boat speed needs to be adjusted so that the time in the course is correct, right?

Edited by Addictedto6

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JohnDoe
Doesn't GPS pinpoint off of land based points of reference? and if so how does it factor in water currents?

GPS is satalite based... but can't factor in water currents - would be inaccurate in any moving water

GPS will actually be "accurate" in any water conditions, because it doesn't base anything on the water. You have to factor currents into speed based units using a paddlewheel or pitot tube, for those are "in-accurate" due to the moving water.

Don't you have that backwards? What matters is speed relative to water, not land. So, if going up current, in a 2mph current, if zero off is going 36, it's going 38 on the water, which is too fast, which is why ppass was preferred for current situations, because if ppass thought it was going 36, it was relative to the water, who cares if its just 34 relative to the shore.

For purposes of slalom course speed control, it's not relative to moving water, but instead fixed positions on the course (which is the equivalent of land in this case).

True.

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Mike00LXI
Doesn't GPS pinpoint off of land based points of reference? and if so how does it factor in water currents?

GPS is satalite based... but can't factor in water currents - would be inaccurate in any moving water

GPS will actually be "accurate" in any water conditions, because it doesn't base anything on the water. You have to factor currents into speed based units using a paddlewheel or pitot tube, for those are "in-accurate" due to the moving water.

Don't you have that backwards? What matters is speed relative to water, not land. So, if going up current, in a 2mph current, if zero off is going 36, it's going 38 on the water, which is too fast, which is why ppass was preferred for current situations, because if ppass thought it was going 36, it was relative to the water, who cares if its just 34 relative to the shore.

That was my point.

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SacRiverRat
Doesn't GPS pinpoint off of land based points of reference? and if so how does it factor in water currents?

GPS is satalite based... but can't factor in water currents - would be inaccurate in any moving water

GPS will actually be "accurate" in any water conditions, because it doesn't base anything on the water. You have to factor currents into speed based units using a paddlewheel or pitot tube, for those are "in-accurate" due to the moving water.

Don't you have that backwards? What matters is speed relative to water, not land. So, if going up current, in a 2mph current, if zero off is going 36, it's going 38 on the water, which is too fast, which is why ppass was preferred for current situations, because if ppass thought it was going 36, it was relative to the water, who cares if its just 34 relative to the shore.

For purposes of slalom course speed control, it's not relative to moving water, but instead fixed positions on the course (which is the equivalent of land in this case). It doesn't matter what the water is doing - the boat speed needs to be adjusted so that the time in the course is correct, right?

So speed through the buoys is more important that speed of the water? Guess having a course in moving water isn't ideal, and that neither scenario is great... I imagine traveling 1 or 2 mph faster & slower across the water each direction would be pretty noticeable to a serious skier.. with the same buoy speed each way.

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Addictedto6
Doesn't GPS pinpoint off of land based points of reference? and if so how does it factor in water currents?

GPS is satalite based... but can't factor in water currents - would be inaccurate in any moving water

GPS will actually be "accurate" in any water conditions, because it doesn't base anything on the water. You have to factor currents into speed based units using a paddlewheel or pitot tube, for those are "in-accurate" due to the moving water.

Don't you have that backwards? What matters is speed relative to water, not land. So, if going up current, in a 2mph current, if zero off is going 36, it's going 38 on the water, which is too fast, which is why ppass was preferred for current situations, because if ppass thought it was going 36, it was relative to the water, who cares if its just 34 relative to the shore.

For purposes of slalom course speed control, it's not relative to moving water, but instead fixed positions on the course (which is the equivalent of land in this case). It doesn't matter what the water is doing - the boat speed needs to be adjusted so that the time in the course is correct, right?

So speed through the buoys is more important that speed of the water? Guess having a course in moving water isn't ideal, and that neither scenario is great... I imagine traveling 1 or 2 mph faster & slower across the water each direction would be pretty noticeable to a serious skier.. with the same buoy speed each way.

For purposes of course skiing, it's the time through the course and elapsed time the boat is moving forward as this impacts how much time you have to get from one side of the course to the other.

You are still traveling 34 mph relative to the buoys, and that's the most important. But yes, you are correct, having courses in moving water is not good.

Going faster/slower 2 mphs to compensate would be far worse of an impact.

I haven't spent much time skiiing a course in a current (just some subtle ones down in the delta), but I would imagine water currents and strong head/tail winds have similiar impacts on how it feels to the skier in the course.

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uk_exile

So if you are a higher end tournament skier and have a older non TBW boat you are essentially forced to upgrade your entire boat to a TBW boat as you can't retro fit ZO onto any non TBW boat. Those with $$$$$ rule

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JohnDoe
So if you are a higher end tournament skier and have a older non TBW boat you are essentially forced to upgrade your entire boat to a TBW boat as you can't retro fit ZO onto any non TBW boat. Those with $$$$$ rule

I don't think so, I think ppass would still be used and that you would "upgrade" to a stargazer model, which would use GPS, but that system will not be OEM equipment 09 and beyond.

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uk_exile

Yes, you could upgrade existing PP to SG but if skiers comments are true SG is not giving the same pull as ZO.

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Lieutenant Dan

Interesting development....if you read the PerfectPass press release (http://www.perfectpass.com/download/PerfectPass-EControls-press-release.pdf) you can see what was happening...i.e. EControls apparently already was doing engine controls and had the inside track for OEMing the GPS speed controls....looks like PP got some GPS know-how from them in trade for backing off the OEM market for Throttle by Wire and also some patents for engine connections....

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CedarLakeSkier
PP will remain supplying stargazer units to all 2008 and older models, as well as the entire I/O market. Unfortunately they will not be in the skiboat market from 2009 on.....

Peter,

Is that what this really meant? I thought it just meant you would only be able to get Zero Off from the factory (OEM), you could always add Perfect Pass in the aftermarket.

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JohnDoe

Truly a sad day if you ask me. Perfect Pass never lost sight of their core market (ski/wake) and would always be happy to help with whatever problem there might be, even just to call and walk you through a master reset. They're responsible for many world record performances and saved many marriages :) . The jury is still out on zero off's high-end capability. I'm not saying Andy Mapple is putting his name behind something thats not a good product, just that I"m not aware of any major events that zero off has pulled, and in many events, zero off is very unproven. Could perfect pass have done many things better and make it more user friendly, sure, but in the end it was probably the most revolutionary product the ski/wake segment has ever seen.

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jjackkrash

Here is the Perfect Pass press release.

http://www.perfectpass.com/download/Perfec...ess-release.pdf

I would guess that the buyout is part of a global settlement in the patent litigation pending in the Western District of Texas.

Edit: oops, didn't see the previous link.

Edited by jjackkrash

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