On The Water

[Molarbu]

Will, that doesn't count. Unless they were up here skiing on Sunapee! Oh yeah, an astute observation, Peter called it--we want pics. Please don't tell me you left the camera charger home. . .I think you have recurring problems with technology and electricity.

Thought you boys might enjoy a 'Then and Now' picture. Only problem for me is, now I understand how someone could be a polygamist.

I like both pics, but the new one is better because you don't have the moustache!

That is a great boat.

[VinRLX]

Sweet boat jack. See if you can get a nice shot of the glitter.

Goose, here come a few shots of the Silver Metal Flake. However, I can say unequivocally that pictures do NOT do justice to the effect. Here's my non-physics educated theory: As a person moves, ever so slightly, the flake reflects light from different places, in different directions. When you take a picture, it is not moving and 'frozen in time.' So, you can see the flake in the pictures below but it is MUCH more stunning in person.

[VinRLX]

[VinRLX]

[UWSkier]

did you have to re-set your bunks at all to adjust for the new hull and/or paddlewheel?

[VinRLX]

I moved the bunks slightly to match the rearward trailer bunks (in ~3"). There is a very hard lifting strake that the bunk needs to be on one side or the other. If they are on the outside like the rear trailer bunks, the boat centers itself as you bring it up and you need a little less water depth to float the boat. My lake is low this spring, might have to move the lift out if they don't close the valves and/or we get some rain. Just put my friend's lift in last night--couldn't get my boat on it, so he is SOL for keeping his boat (used 08 RLXi) in the water for now.

The step guides were ok, but a little low for the freeboard of this boat, so I brought them up ~6". However, now they are on a wider part of the hull, so I need to move them out some. I have vinyl corner cushions on the aft part of the guides and they are now dragging slightly in one spot as the boat goes in or out. I plan to get some of those inflatable corner wheels in addition to opening the guides.

I suppose a few adjustments should be expected with a new boat. Attitude adjustment is next--the wife wants me to wipe the silly grin off my face.

[SmoothWaterMan]

Couple of opinions I'll let fly here -

- The 08 is not as pitch sensitive as the 07, for they went back to the standard of angling the tracking fins to help counteract driver weight and torque.

- If you have an evil wakeboard boat, and you need a slalom machine, order a Response (closed bow) with a monsoon. It's nearly untouchable.

- Monsoon with CATs. This engine has alot more going for it then people give it credit for. Because it has oxygen sensors, it is constantly calibrating PERFECT air/fuel mixtures. It's not just a map for an "average" engine, it makes your engine work as best as it can. And that's damm good. Yes, it's green and you get a huge hydrocarbon reduction and a near elimination of CO2, but from a driver's perspective, those are just side benefits. With better fuel ratios and more constant temps you have less ring blow by of fuel, less chance of making oil or burning off (evaporation) of oil, better long life expectancy, etc, etc..... I was on the phone just the other day with a Malibu tech service guy that you might as well call Mr. Engine. I should have recorded all the stuff he was saying, since even though I love my motors I was way behind the curve on what he was talking about.

- Last but not least....my favorite....the snappyness. This is a "time to write a letter to your politician"** moment. This is not due to the CAT's, unless it was part of Indmar's design if the O2 sensors couldn't keep up. But, I'm getting ahead of myself. The throttle by wire change was not a good thing from a driver's perspective. While it's great for smoothness and never replacing a cable.....it slows down engine responsiveness.

I have not determined which component is the weak link, or if it's the combination of both throttle control and throttle servo motor that slows down the responsiveness. On a cable throttle control a driver can "snap" the throttle open and shut, and the engine instantly responses to it. On a throttle-by-wire control, a driver can "snap" the throttle open and shut and the engine.....doesn't do a thing. My guess is that either the calibration is such that it can't process a reaction or won't allow it to happen, or a better guess is that the throttle body servo motor simply isn't sized to accelerate or move at a rate as fast as you can move the throttle control.

This is a major problem when trying to pull a show team pyramid off the dock and time the hit "now!", and other similar times. There is the chance that a faster reacting servo motor (And I HOPE it's not a stepper) would be a detriment to a slalom course skier, for when the speed control asks for more it would react too quickly and cause a "hard" pull. But I feel that could easily be filtered out by the speed control settings, so it's really a non-valid argument.

The point of all of this is performance: the feel of performance, the expectation of performance, and the deliverance of performance. Malibu was first and foremost a ski boat of incredible performance. Let's not water it down by chasing the "insert high-end car brand here" smoothness. Sometimes you want it rough, and NOW.

Peter

**Send a letter to your dealer, and copy it to Malibu Boats.

Edited April 17, 2008 by SmoothWaterMan

[Chef23]

had to offset all of that "ugly" surrounding the driver.

Yup. That boat is so gorgeous even YOU could drive it.

Sweet boat jack. See if you can get a nice shot of the glitter.

Absolutely will do. I tried to match the hull with the metal flake, so when it wasn't glittering it would look like one color. I think it works pretty well. But when that sun hits it--WaWow!

Hey Will, you KNOW I'll be in the water before you!

Had a great day with Drew Ross, Thomas Degasperi, Glen Campbell, and Mariana Mosti.

Will, that doesn't count. Unless they were up here skiing on Sunapee! Oh yeah, an astute observation, Peter called it--we want pics. Please don't tell me you left the camera charger home. . .I think you have recurring problems with technology and electricity.

Thought you boys might enjoy a 'Then and Now' picture. Only problem for me is, now I understand how someone could be a polygamist.

Great pics. I think my RLX is a dead ringer for your old one.

[1FootDan]

Couple of opinions I'll let fly here -

- The 08 is not as pitch sensitive as the 07, for they went back to the standard of angling the tracking fins to help counteract driver weight and torque.

- If you have an evil wakeboard boat, and you need a slalom machine, order a Response (closed bow) with a monsoon. It's nearly untouchable.

- Monsoon with CATs. This engine has alot more going for it then people give it credit for. Because it has oxygen sensors, it is constantly calibrating PERFECT air/fuel mixtures. It's not just a map for an "average" engine, it makes your engine work as best as it can. And that's damm good. Yes, it's green and you get a huge hydrocarbon reduction and a near elimination of CO2, but from a driver's perspective, those are just side benefits. With better fuel ratios and more constant temps you have less ring blow by of fuel, less chance of making oil or burning off (evaporation) of oil, better long life expectancy, etc, etc..... I was on the phone just the other day with a Malibu tech service guy that you might as well call Mr. Engine. I should have recorded all the stuff he was saying, since even though I love my motors I was way behind the curve on what he was talking about.

- Last but not least....my favorite....the snappyness. This is a "time to write a letter to your politician"** moment. This is not due to the CAT's, unless it was part of Indmar's design if the O2 sensors couldn't keep up. But, I'm getting ahead of myself. The throttle by wire change was not a good thing from a driver's perspective. While it's great for smoothness and never replacing a cable.....it slows down engine responsiveness.

I have not determined which component is the weak link, or if it's the combination of both throttle control and throttle servo motor that slows down the responsiveness. On a cable throttle control a driver can "snap" the throttle open and shut, and the engine instantly responses to it. On a throttle-by-wire control, a driver can "snap" the throttle open and shut and the engine.....doesn't do a thing. My guess is that either the calibration is such that it can't process a reaction or won't allow it to happen, or a better guess is that the throttle body servo motor simply isn't sized to accelerate or move at a rate as fast as you can move the throttle control.

This is a major problem when trying to pull a show team pyramid off the dock and time the hit "now!", and other similar times. There is the chance that a faster reacting servo motor (And I HOPE it's not a stepper) would be a detriment to a slalom course skier, for when the speed control asks for more it would react too quickly and cause a "hard" pull. But I feel that could easily be filtered out by the speed control settings, so it's really a non-valid argument.

The point of all of this is performance: the feel of performance, the expectation of performance, and the deliverance of performance. Malibu was first and foremost a ski boat of incredible performance. Let's not water it down by chasing the "insert high-end car brand here" smoothness. Sometimes you want it rough, and NOW.

Peter

**Send a letter to your dealer, and copy it to Malibu Boats.

...familly forum here...

[BlastRlxi]

Couple of opinions I'll let fly here -

- The 08 is not as pitch sensitive as the 07, for they went back to the standard of angling the tracking fins to help counteract driver weight and torque.

- If you have an evil wakeboard boat, and you need a slalom machine, order a Response (closed bow) with a monsoon. It's nearly untouchable.

- Monsoon with CATs. This engine has alot more going for it then people give it credit for. Because it has oxygen sensors, it is constantly calibrating PERFECT air/fuel mixtures. It's not just a map for an "average" engine, it makes your engine work as best as it can. And that's damm good. Yes, it's green and you get a huge hydrocarbon reduction and a near elimination of CO2, but from a driver's perspective, those are just side benefits. With better fuel ratios and more constant temps you have less ring blow by of fuel, less chance of making oil or burning off (evaporation) of oil, better long life expectancy, etc, etc..... I was on the phone just the other day with a Malibu tech service guy that you might as well call Mr. Engine. I should have recorded all the stuff he was saying, since even though I love my motors I was way behind the curve on what he was talking about.

- Last but not least....my favorite....the snappyness. This is a "time to write a letter to your politician"** moment. This is not due to the CAT's, unless it was part of Indmar's design if the O2 sensors couldn't keep up. But, I'm getting ahead of myself. The throttle by wire change was not a good thing from a driver's perspective. While it's great for smoothness and never replacing a cable.....it slows down engine responsiveness.

I have not determined which component is the weak link, or if it's the combination of both throttle control and throttle servo motor that slows down the responsiveness. On a cable throttle control a driver can "snap" the throttle open and shut, and the engine instantly responses to it. On a throttle-by-wire control, a driver can "snap" the throttle open and shut and the engine.....doesn't do a thing. My guess is that either the calibration is such that it can't process a reaction or won't allow it to happen, or a better guess is that the throttle body servo motor simply isn't sized to accelerate or move at a rate as fast as you can move the throttle control.

This is a major problem when trying to pull a show team pyramid off the dock and time the hit "now!", and other similar times. There is the chance that a faster reacting servo motor (And I HOPE it's not a stepper) would be a detriment to a slalom course skier, for when the speed control asks for more it would react too quickly and cause a "hard" pull. But I feel that could easily be filtered out by the speed control settings, so it's really a non-valid argument.

The point of all of this is performance: the feel of performance, the expectation of performance, and the deliverance of performance. Malibu was first and foremost a ski boat of incredible performance. Let's not water it down by chasing the "insert high-end car brand here" smoothness. Sometimes you want it rough, and NOW.

Peter

**Send a letter to your dealer, and copy it to Malibu Boats.

Peter, It's things like this that make it easier and easier to justify keeping my '05 for a long time.

[1FootDan]

Peter, It's things like this that make it easier and easier to justify keeping my '05 for a long time.

Plus, personnally the 03-06 hulls look better.

Edited April 18, 2008 by 1FootDan

[areamike]

anymore metal flake and you would have a glorified Bass boat.

[areamike]

Apparently the engines with cats have an oxygen sensor that controls the right gas/air ratio. Apparently this is why it is more fuel efficient and performant.

The new motors have oxygen sensors? I thought that was not possible with a wet exhaust system? So do the new motors have a relatively dry exhaust now?

[vette-ski]

- Last but not least....my favorite....the snappyness. This is a "time to write a letter to your politician"** moment. This is not due to the CAT's, unless it was part of Indmar's design if the O2 sensors couldn't keep up. But, I'm getting ahead of myself. The throttle by wire change was not a good thing from a driver's perspective. While it's great for smoothness and never replacing a cable.....it slows down engine responsiveness.

I have not determined which component is the weak link, or if it's the combination of both throttle control and throttle servo motor that slows down the responsiveness. On a cable throttle control a driver can "snap" the throttle open and shut, and the engine instantly responses to it. On a throttle-by-wire control, a driver can "snap" the throttle open and shut and the engine.....doesn't do a thing. My guess is that either the calibration is such that it can't process a reaction or won't allow it to happen, or a better guess is that the throttle body servo motor simply isn't sized to accelerate or move at a rate as fast as you can move the throttle control.

So are these tuned differently for marine applications than on the street? I've heard no complaints about reaction time off the line at the track for drive by wire cars. We're talking thousandths of a second here. You wouldn't even notice that in a boat on take-off. Not trying to cause a controversy here but I'm finding it hard to believe you can physically snap the throttle faster than it can react. I haven't tried it myself I just can't believe it wouldn't be tuned better than that. This would be a huge issue at the track, and I've never heard anything like this before. You'd have to hit the pedal at the 2nd or 3rd yellow before green.

[SmoothWaterMan]

So are these tuned differently for marine applications than on the street? I've heard no complaints about reaction time off the line at the track for drive by wire cars. We're talking thousandths of a second here. You wouldn't even notice that in a boat on take-off. Not trying to cause a controversy here but I'm finding it hard to believe you can physically snap the throttle faster than it can react. I haven't tried it myself I just can't believe it wouldn't be tuned better than that. This would be a huge issue at the track, and I've never heard anything like this before. You'd have to hit the pedal at the 2nd or 3rd yellow before green.

You should try one. I almost guarantee your hand is faster than the eye..err...throttle body servo motor.

pb

[SmoothWaterMan]

The new motors have oxygen sensors? I thought that was not possible with a wet exhaust system? So do the new motors have a relatively dry exhaust now?

Yes they do, and you are correct. The manifold is dryer longer, up until the sensor and CAT, then water is re-introduced into the flow.

pb

[WakeGirl]

So are these tuned differently for marine applications than on the street? I've heard no complaints about reaction time off the line at the track for drive by wire cars. We're talking thousandths of a second here. You wouldn't even notice that in a boat on take-off. Not trying to cause a controversy here but I'm finding it hard to believe you can physically snap the throttle faster than it can react. I haven't tried it myself I just can't believe it wouldn't be tuned better than that. This would be a huge issue at the track, and I've never heard anything like this before. You'd have to hit the pedal at the 2nd or 3rd yellow before green.

You should try one. I almost guarantee your hand is faster than the eye..err...throttle body servo motor.

pb

He's right. I was never, ever able to put words to how my boat drove different until Peter's explanation. There are times when you're pulling a newbie & you've got to be ready to go when they are, or you're pulling somebody that needs you to hit it RIGHT NOW (dock starts are a good example - I have to get to where I can anticipate it a bit, a tough balancing act) & it's just not there in the way that a traditional throttle is. While most people probably wouldn't notice it, I do but I never equated it to the throttle by wire. I thought that it was in tuning or maybe something else, but after reading that I know that that must be the difference.

[VinRLX]

Interesting thought, Tracie. That would also explain my feeling of non-instantaneous response, or lack of push-you-back-in-the-seat power. Not that power is lacking, just that it isn't as abrupt. Abrupt being good or bad, depending on what you're looking for.

[VinRLX]

And speaking of 2008 RLXis on the water:

[VinRLX]

And although it's nice, his boat is nowhere NEAR as bad-a$$ as mine. Well, maybe it is. In a different way.

[WakeGirl]

Interesting thought, Tracie. That would also explain my feeling of non-instantaneous response, or lack of push-you-back-in-the-seat power. Not that power is lacking, just that it isn't as abrupt. Abrupt being good or bad, depending on what you're looking for.

That's a good description of it. It's such a subtle difference that I think you really have to have spent a lot of time in both to really feel it.