Switching?

[vette-ski]

What will the boss think? That's like showing up for work at Ford driving a Chevy (although I'm sure there's plenty that do that).

[CedarLakeSkier]

The one thing I noticed about CC at the boat show is that when you sit in the seats they are not as high off the floor of the boat as they are in a Malibu. I felt like I was sitting on a miniature chair in a kindergarden room because my knees were so high up in my face, I didn't like it at all.

When you look at the general shape of the boats the CC narrows near the stern of the boat. I'm guessing that this makes for a narrower wake, but I don't know for sure. The fact that you lose that space at the stern of the boat is a little irritating to me. When you look at a comparable 'Bu, there is a little narrowing at the stern, but not nearly as much as in a CC.

Other than that the boats looked well constructed and, to be honest, I don't like the looks of the Malibu dash on the new '08 models (the squared off look doesn't "do it" for me). The guages on the CC seem a little more on the classic side which I like. It wouldn't sway me to by a CC over a 'Bu though.

Edited April 1, 2008 by CedarLakeSkier

[BlastRlxi]

The one thing I noticed about CC at the boat show is that when you sit in the seats they are not as high off the floor of the boat as they are in a Malibu. I felt like I was sitting on a miniature chair in a kindergarden room because my knees were so high up in my face, I didn't like it at all.

When you look at the general shape of the boats the CC narrows near the stern of the boat. I'm guessing that this makes for a narrower wake, but I don't know for sure. The fact that you lose that space at the stern of the boat is a little irritating to me. When you look at a comparable 'Bu, there is a little narrowing at the stern, but not nearly as much as in a CC.

Other than that the boats looked well constructed and, to be honest, I don't like the looks of the Malibu dash on the new '08 models (the squared off look doesn't "do it" for me). The guages on the CC seem a little more on the classic side which I like. It wouldn't sway me to by a CC over a 'Bu though.

I have to agree with this even though I don't think it is the case on a v-drive as much as it is on their slalom boats. I think that boat design, with the narrowing in the stern, goes back to their wooden boat building days. I don't like the look of it in their skiboats.

[MalibuNation]

I thought it might be an April Fools joke a day early.

[Sippi]

I have heard rumors that CC is building ANOTHER boat, naming it differently and giving it the 06 and older 210 hull. Could just be a rumor, but either way, not a big deal to me. Either way, who posts stuff like that on a Bu forum? whether you were a bu fan or not, i think its disrespectful and childish, and is almost like you are just looking to start an argument. Go write that stuff over at planetnautique or something. I mean to each his/own on the preference. I'm sure you'll like either one. Honestly, if i were GIVEN a boat and didn't have to pay for it, i'd like it to! I'd like it b/c it'd give me the money to get what i wanted after i sold it, but that's a different issue

[chathamsolutions]

Asking questions about another brand is A OK here.

You just have to be willing to take the ribbing for years to come...

[relentless]

I'll never stop being amazed by the young folks making the buying decisions re Dad's boat..... or drilling holes in Dad's boat..... or feeling they've "helped" because they added the stereo system. The ballast system that we installed was as a demo for the Pro-x series fly high sacs. we were one of the first ones to buy a set up with the wiring harness and everything so we took some pics and wrote a full review for them about the process. As a result we got them for cost. We did a similar deal with wet sounds. What we did there was since they had no dealers in the area we talked to all the local boat dealerships and got some to sign with wet sounds.

As you're making the decision..... have you figured out what dad will be paying for this upgrade? Have you figured out what he lost in depreciation on the current boat? Actually because of what we put in it and the deals we got on that, not to mention the deal we got on the boat in the first place we will be making money on the boat. And he is doing another deal similar to the others stated above to help them get some publicity since they are a new dealership.

I kinda think you're still smarting from the negative "young fella" comment from the Malibu dealer. Trouble is, I think I might sound just like him/her.

On that note the Malibu sales men here is one of the best I have ever seen if not the best. He is nice and really makes sure you are being taken care of. The only problem is that his manager does a really good job of undoing all of this. I have noticed however that the manager tends not to do this if you buy a new boat from him. Since we bought a used boat though he takes every extra penny. Example: we ordered a bimini top with cover. JJ the sales men was in the process of giving it to us when the manager stopped him took the cover gave us the bimini and then asked us to pay extra for the cover.

Oh.... by the way..... what kind of boat does Dad want/need? Betcha that 2004 LSV Sunscape's doin' just fine. This is all him

"More innovative and user friendly seating"

Personal opinion.

"storage above the engine that keeps life vests warm"

Malibu has the same thing.

"steps going down to the platform"

I would never want this in a boat. Takes up valued deck space. The one exact reason my wife didn't like the SV211 that we considered buying.

"wakeplate provides more adjustments uses less gass"

Is this an assumption or are there facts to back it up? This is a fact. The wakeplate allows you lift the back end of the boat when you are cruising. The part that adds the wake is the cut out in the bottom of the hull that allows it to sit a little deeper in the water, keep in mind it is about half inch deep so it is not like they took out a huge part of your hull.

"boat in-general needs less weight to produce the a similar or better wake(depending on your style) the difference is even greater when add the theoretical weight that the wedge(mounted on hollow stringers) adds"

Someone said the samething about a Tige vs. Nati. Also, someone said the samething with a MC vs Nati. Might be another personal opinion.

"Keyless entry(not all think it as a plus that you will never forget your key)"

Cool feature, but is there an extra cost to have it?? Since I have been boating for 20 years and cannot EVER remember forgetting the keys, I would not pay extra for this feature. I can say that I would never pay extra for that either. It is standard.

When I owned MC, I use to really like the looks of the Nati's and never paid much attention to Malibu. When it came down to selling my MC and buying a Nati, someone from Wakeworld suggested I look at Malibu. I checked them out and was sold in about 5 minutes. In my opinion (and my wife's) there is no comparison. We will be back in an MC before we go to a Nati.

Good luck.

First of all he's not even comparing what I would consider comparable boats. The nauti he speaks of should be compared with a wakesetter, not sunscape which is on diamond hull. I am not comparing it to our boat for the exact reason that you stated. That just happens to be what we have. If you're just about wakeboarding, then clearly you should be using the wake hull for comparison. I think some nautiques are good looking, but as soon as they're on the water I remember why I prefer malibu. Have fun having to ask youir friends to rearrange themselves each time you get up so the wake doesn't wash! Take a hull thats been used from the mid eighties (SN 2001), design a flashy yet unpractical top deck and that's innovative? Not to mention that a "wakeplate" is the biggest marketing ploy ever. It CANNOT increase water displacement, it can only decrease running attitude and REDUCE the wake. I have been on the boats to know what you are talking about. The wakeplate its self is not what makes it bigger it is the notch that is in front of it. If they filled that notch with fiberglass then it would be like the plate was down all the time. The wake plate is there so that you can cruise while using less gas. They trick you because they set it down, wake looks small, then pick it up and it looks bigger...its the same size it would have been if it wasn't even on!! Actually we start with it down because we push the fact that it is the notch in the hull that makes the wake bigger not the wakeplate. All the wakeplate does is save you gas while cruising.

That said, is it totally normal to be/work around something and naturally see its benefits and none of its faults, sure, but CCs don't do anything for me personally.

That local Malibu shop that told him no actually happens to be the shop I go to. I sure know I don't want someone young messing with my boat. Also, the Natique dealership has since lost Natiques and they are selling at another shop. Not sure what that says. I would not have been working on your boat just cleaning it and help keep the shop looking good. What happened is that it was a dual ownership and the majority owner would not allow the local owner do some of the stuff that he wanted to do to help the customers so he moved. When he did this Nautique followed him.

I am sorry if you guys got the impression that I was some spoiled kid who made decisions with his dads money. This is my dad's obsession and choice. I will not deny that it share the same passion but I did not push this change. He just respects my opinion so I make sure I know as much as I can about the subject before I give it to him so that he will continue to respect it. Sorry if you don't respect your kids opinion that would really suck.

[NorCaliBu]

That's like showing up for work at Ford driving a Chevy (although I'm sure there are plenty that do).

"Keyless entry(not all think it as a plus that you will never forget your key)"

Cool feature, but is there an extra cost to have it?? Since I have been boating for 20 years and cannot EVER remember forgetting the keys, I would not pay extra for this feature.

I can say that I would never pay extra for that either. It is standard.

Nothing's free. You're paying for it. It's just built into the price of the boat.

First of all he's not even comparing what I would consider comparable boats. The nauti he speaks of should be compared with a wakesetter, not sunscape which is on diamond hull.

I am not comparing it to our boat for the exact reason that you stated. That just happens to be what we have.

So you have extensive experience behind a VLX on a wake hull?

I am sorry if you guys got the impression that I was some spoiled kid who made decisions with his dads money. This is my dad's obsession and choice. I will not deny that it share the same passion but I did not push this change. He just respects my opinion so I make sure I know as much as I can about the subject before I give it to him so that he will continue to respect it. Sorry if you don't respect your kids opinion that would really suck.

No offense but if I was dropping that kind of money on a brand new boat I wouldn't just follow anyone's recommendation. Not my son's, not a salesman's, not my neighbor's or my ski buddy's. I would be doing all of my own research and then demo my top 2 or 3. I think the main reason that you got the response that you did is because you just started spouting off all of the CC marketing BS. That only works on people who don't know much about the subject in question and are willing to blindly believe what they are told. That is very definitely not this group.

That, and the simple fact that you're wrong. (j/k - It's all opinion and personal preference anyway)

Enjoy whatever boat you end up with.

Edited April 2, 2008 by NorCaliBu

[stewart]

I am sorry if you guys got the impression that I was some spoiled kid who made decisions with his dads money. This is my dad's obsession and choice. I will not deny that it share the same passion but I did not push this change. He just respects my opinion so I make sure I know as much as I can about the subject before I give it to him so that he will continue to respect it. Sorry if you don't respect your kids opinion that would really suck.

Nothing wrong with that.

[relentless]

"Keyless entry(not all think it as a plus that you will never forget your key)"

Cool feature, but is there an extra cost to have it?? Since I have been boating for 20 years and cannot EVER remember forgetting the keys, I would not pay extra for this feature.

I can say that I would never pay extra for that either. It is standard.

Nothing's free. You're paying for it. It's just built into the price of the boat.

I never said it was free

First of all he's not even comparing what I would consider comparable boats. The nauti he speaks of should be compared with a wakesetter, not sunscape which is on diamond hull.

I am not comparing it to our boat for the exact reason that you stated. That just happens to be what we have.

So you have extensive experience behind a VLX on a wake hull? I would not say extensive but I have been behind one on 6 different occasions.

I am sorry if you guys got the impression that I was some spoiled kid who made decisions with his dads money. This is my dad's obsession and choice. I will not deny that it share the same passion but I did not push this change. He just respects my opinion so I make sure I know as much as I can about the subject before I give it to him so that he will continue to respect it. Sorry if you don't respect your kids opinion that would really suck.

No offense but if I was dropping that kind of money on a brand new boat I wouldn't just follow anyone's recommendation. Not my son's, not a salesman's, not my neighbor's or my ski buddy's. I would be doing all of my own research and then demo my top 2 or 3. He has done his own research. So you are telling me that once you do your research you refuse to hear what others may think as well? I think the main reason that you got the response that you did is because you just started spouting off all of the CC marketing BS. That only works on people who don't know much about the subject in question and are willing to blindly believe what they are told. That is very definitely not this group.

That, and the simple fact that you're wrong. (j/k - It's all opinion and personal preference anyway)

Enjoy whatever boat you end up with.

[NorCaliBu]

...So you are telling me that once you do your research you refuse to hear what others may think as well?

That's exactly what I'm saying. If I'm paying for it...I'm making the decision. Period. Others could chime in with their opinions but you know what they say about opinions...

I think a main difference here may be in who uses the boat. For our boat, I'm the main user, mostly slalom (with some barefootin' and wakeboarding). Is your father an avid wakeboarder? Or are you? If the main "user" is you then your opinion of the wake quality would definitely be important. If I didn't participate (or was very casual about it) and my son was a very avid "skier, wakeboarder,...whatever" then I would probably put more weight on his opinion. If I'm an avid user and I'm paying the bill...I'm making the decision. You'll understand someday.

[07vrideblue]

Best April fools joke I have heard ever !!!! Great job kid !!!

[doughickey]

If Dad is just as much of an enthusiast as you say he is...... betcha he's still younger than many of us on this forum. I, for one, am a grandfather (as are a few on The Crew) ...... but still do my own research. Yes, I take input, but similar to NorCaliBu, I pay the bills, so I make the decisions. But I make decisions on many factors..... some beyond the scope of a high-school age student. No offense meant..... but.... you may be a bit clouded in your judgement. As has been said, if you're working at a CC dealer..... might you not already be biased.

You also added new info. Sounds like you/Dad get others to pay for your trinkets and bling for your boats. Hmmm, might you be swayed by who you can get the most free/cheap stuff from..... vs....... who really offers the BEST towboat for your needs.

I also get a kick out of when you mention buying stuff.... you keep mentioning when WE ordered stuff, WE got deals, WE, We, We. Excuse me, who exactly wrote the cheques? Careful..... when dad let's you say WE too many times, you'll start to act like it's YOUR boat.

So..... please get him to read all these posts. Ask him to respond her. Love to hear what he has to say about all of his decisions.

Or.... do you tell him just what you want him to hear..... 'cause you want a new CC.

What does HE want? Have you asked him? Did he ever end a ski run, or climb back into the boat saying "Son, we just gotta get a better wake.... whatcha think."

Like I said before..... betcha that 2004 is doin' just fine.... especially with the new prop and all that extra stuff you (and him) got at cost!

[relentless]

He actually does not ski anymore, maybe once a year. this is because he has decided that he enjoys surfing and wake skateing better. I didn't even know we were purchasing a new boat until he had already gotten 70% of the way through the process. Also he decides what he wants and then cuts deals with people. Oh and since you brought it up he is 49 years old. Beside I never claimed I was all knowing I otherwise I would not have posted in the first place. Me posting is like admiting that I can learn more I would like opions that I can learn from that is why I posted this on here because yeah as expected there is a little poking and jabing but there are usually really advise to learn from.

Edited April 2, 2008 by relentless

[jetskipro550]

If Dad is just as much of an enthusiast as you say he is...... betcha he's still younger than many of us on this forum. I, for one, am a grandfather (as are a few on The Crew) ...... but still do my own research. Yes, I take input, but similar to NorCaliBu, I pay the bills, so I make the decisions. But I make decisions on many factors..... some beyond the scope of a high-school age student. No offense meant..... but.... you may be a bit clouded in your judgement. As has been said, if you're working at a CC dealer..... might you not already be biased.

You also added new info. Sounds like you/Dad get others to pay for your trinkets and bling for your boats. Hmmm, might you be swayed by who you can get the most free/cheap stuff from..... vs....... who really offers the BEST towboat for your needs.

I also get a kick out of when you mention buying stuff.... you keep mentioning when WE ordered stuff, WE got deals, WE, We, We. Excuse me, who exactly wrote the cheques? Careful..... when dad let's you say WE too many times, you'll start to act like it's YOUR boat.

So..... please get him to read all these posts. Ask him to respond her. Love to hear what he has to say about all of his decisions.

Or.... do you tell him just what you want him to hear..... 'cause you want a new CC.

What does HE want? Have you asked him? Did he ever end a ski run, or climb back into the boat saying "Son, we just gotta get a better wake.... whatcha think."

Like I said before..... betcha that 2004 is doin' just fine.... especially with the new prop and all that extra stuff you (and him) got at cost!

Whats it to you who paid for the boat? Just sounds like you are trying to start an argument.

[sunscapeJeff]

If surfing is such a big deal, then is the Nautique really the best choice? I've surfed behind the Malibu 247, and I thought it was killer, and the VLX was great too. The diamond hull doesn't really produce that great of a surf wake -- at least mine doesn't, but I would think the Nautique wouldn't be much better than that or the VLX, when it comes to surfing. Regardless of which one you're talking about, it requires a hell of a lot of weight to get a good surf wake, and the numbers you posted in your OP don't sound too far-fetched.

I've heard that the Centurions throw a sensational surf wake. Hope to see it in person sometime soon. I've surfed behind a Supra 24SSV, and I was extremely impressed with the surf wake behind it. I would hope that you guys are shopping around a bit, other than just looking at the Malibu or the Nautique. IMHO Nautiques are way overpriced. Then again, Malibu's seem to be getting there, IMHO. Really, so are most of the wake boats these days, I guess.

[Longjohn]

If I worked for a Nautique dealership, I most certainly would buy a Nautique. If I thought Malibu was better, I wouldn't be working for Nautique. We can debat which boat is better until we are blue in the face. It all comes down to personal preference. I think it is far stretch to say one company is more innovative, one has better seating, one has a better wake, etc....IT IS ALL PERSONAL OPINION.

Also, the wake plate might provide better gas mileage when it is up, but still does not mean the gas mileage is better then a Malibu. That was the point I was trying to make.

BTW, I wish my dad gave me your reins when I was your age. I was happy with his 14ft Valco alluminum fishing boat with a trolling motor.

[doughickey]

If Dad is just as much of an enthusiast as you say he is...... betcha he's still younger than many of us on this forum. I, for one, am a grandfather (as are a few on The Crew) ...... but still do my own research. Yes, I take input, but similar to NorCaliBu, I pay the bills, so I make the decisions. But I make decisions on many factors..... some beyond the scope of a high-school age student. No offense meant..... but.... you may be a bit clouded in your judgement. As has been said, if you're working at a CC dealer..... might you not already be biased.

You also added new info. Sounds like you/Dad get others to pay for your trinkets and bling for your boats. Hmmm, might you be swayed by who you can get the most free/cheap stuff from..... vs....... who really offers the BEST towboat for your needs.

I also get a kick out of when you mention buying stuff.... you keep mentioning when WE ordered stuff, WE got deals, WE, We, We. Excuse me, who exactly wrote the cheques? Careful..... when dad let's you say WE too many times, you'll start to act like it's YOUR boat.

So..... please get him to read all these posts. Ask him to respond her. Love to hear what he has to say about all of his decisions.

Or.... do you tell him just what you want him to hear..... 'cause you want a new CC.

What does HE want? Have you asked him? Did he ever end a ski run, or climb back into the boat saying "Son, we just gotta get a better wake.... whatcha think."

Like I said before..... betcha that 2004 is doin' just fine.... especially with the new prop and all that extra stuff you (and him) got at cost!

Whats it to you who paid for the boat? Just sounds like you are trying to start an argument.

Hmmm..... this from another guy who drives around in Dad's boat. Yes, it makes a difference.

Sure, I've been poking away at the fact that some folks are making buying decisions without all the responsibilities of ownership. Full responsibility often drives a different set of conclusions. Much easier to have an opinion and make a decision..... if you don't have to live with the FULL consequences.

When the OP asked for opinions..... good set of questions.

When he started making claims.... based on HIS buying criteria...... that's when things fell apart.

Who pays drives a closer scrutiny of available best options.

For example..... buying a prop or a wakeboard or whatever. It's real easy to spend somebody else's money and try a bunch of props/etc... send them back and forth... pay the shipping.... use for the gas to test. Conversely, if it's YOUR $400 bucks your spending on a prop, you do LOTS more homework, decisions are made with a broader criteria. Who pays makes a difference.

[D-GOOSE]

Can some one please post a set of cliff note's for me. I don't have time to read 3 pages.

Our current boat, a 2004 21LSV Sunscape threw a solid wake for skiing, wakeboarding and surfing

Is that a good thing for skiing

[NorCaliBu]

Can some one please post a set of cliff note's for me. I don't have time to read 3 pages.

Just read it...it's entertainment. Of course, I don't have TV.

Our current boat, a 2004 21LSV Sunscape threw a solid wake for skiing, wakeboarding and surfing

Is that a good thing for skiing

I don't think he was speaking literally.

[Sippi]

If its just wake you (and your dad) are looking for. Have you looked at the Epic? That things ugly as hell IMO but it throws a killer wake! for boarding, and surfing.

I was raised on the water, learning from my dad (46 year old cancer surviver). When i was little he used to compete in trick, slalom, and was an avid footer. when he was diagnosed in 03, he sold both our boats (nautique 2001 was his ski boat and the wakesetter). but in 04 i ended up buying an 03 RLX to suprise him. we've made it into a pretty versitile boat. He doesn't foot anymore or slalom that much, but the man rips on a trick ski. Next time we go out i'll video him. I am actually in the market for a new boat (wakeboard boat of somekind). and for my dad's bday which is may 7th, i'm going to sign over there title to the rlx to him. so i'm in the market as well. i've looked at just about everyboat, still can't make up my mind based on a few minor things, but by the end of it, i'm leaning more towards the vlx. I just love the wake on them, the interior, and the make. but that's my opinion. Im not biased towards other boats as i am looking at them too. just tellin ya where i'm leaning.

[chathamsolutions]

He actually does not ski anymore, maybe once a year. this is because he has decided that he enjoys surfing and wake skateing better. I didn't even know we were purchasing a new boat until he had already gotten 70% of the way through the process. Also he decides what he wants and then cuts deals with people. Oh and since you brought it up he is 49 years old. Beside I never claimed I was all knowing I otherwise I would not have posted in the first place. Me posting is like admiting that I can learn more I would like opions that I can learn from that is why I posted this on here because yeah as expected there is a little poking and jabing but there are usually really advise to learn from.

Keep it coming. Sounds like you have a thick skin. As long as you can sift through the ribbing, you'll keep getting bits of good information.

...

Whats it to you who paid for the boat? Just sounds like you are trying to start an argument.

Hit a little close to home?

Spoken like a guy who hasn't had any kids yet...

Keep it coming J, you'll learn soon enough.

For those of you looking to pick a fight, remember:

[NorCaliBu]

For those of you looking to pick a fight, remember: ...

The PC crowd will be looking for their rope right about now.

[jetskipro550]

He actually does not ski anymore, maybe once a year. this is because he has decided that he enjoys surfing and wake skateing better. I didn't even know we were purchasing a new boat until he had already gotten 70% of the way through the process. Also he decides what he wants and then cuts deals with people. Oh and since you brought it up he is 49 years old. Beside I never claimed I was all knowing I otherwise I would not have posted in the first place. Me posting is like admiting that I can learn more I would like opions that I can learn from that is why I posted this on here because yeah as expected there is a little poking and jabing but there are usually really advise to learn from.

Keep it coming. Sounds like you have a thick skin. As long as you can sift through the ribbing, you'll keep getting bits of good information.

...

Whats it to you who paid for the boat? Just sounds like you are trying to start an argument.

Hit a little close to home?

Yes.

Spoken like a guy who hasn't had any kids yet...

Keep it coming J, you'll learn soon enough.

I hope to keep it that way

For those of you looking to pick a fight, remember:

[chathamsolutions]

For those of you looking to pick a fight, remember: ...

The PC crowd will be looking for their rope right about now.

Well, since you ARE one of the kings of 'stir it up'...