Oregon boaters

[GeorgeWBush]

There will be a law in the near future in Oregon to address boat stereos, everyone seems to be on board for that, but it take time to create a law... And as for a ban on ballast and wedges that would only be in that portion of the Willamette, OSMB has no desire to enforce something like that on lakes like Billy Chinook, and Detroit. But it is one of those things that someone could worry about snow balling I guess. The thing with overloading is that it automatically equals an "especially hazardous condition" by the way the law is written. But a Moomba with its ballast tanks full and 6 people on board? It is impossible to articulate that that alone is creating an especially hazardous condition. It leaves room for interpretation which laws should not do...

[SKI LVR]

The music being played (blasted) has not been the focus of complaints by the homeowners. That being said, I agree that I don't want to listen to someone else's expletive laden music. This comes down to being curteous of others.

I imagine that laws will eventually be handed down that will regulate this as well.

obski, do you think the loud music is the real reason they're upset? But they're using the erosion as a means?

My feeling is the homeowners feel the river experience is degrading, with loud stereo's and large wakes causing it. They perceive the large, overloaded, loud wakeboard/party boat as the largest offender.

Loud music is harder to legislate, like on the highway not really much you can do; but the large wake seemed like a better opportunity to legislate a difference. So they went after that first.

I've been on a dock with a surfer passing by, 3' wake lifting the moored boat, with blasting music from a boat going only 10 mph. It offended me, and I love boating. If we can't walk is another's shoes, It won't turn out well.

[GeorgeWBush]

My feeling is the homeowners feel the river experience is degrading, with loud stereo's and large wakes causing it. They perceive the large, overloaded, loud wakeboard/party boat as the largest offender.

Loud music is harder to legislate, like on the highway not really much you can do; but the large wake seemed like a better opportunity to legislate a difference. So they went after that first.

I've been on a dock with a surfer passing by, 3' wake lifting the moored boat, with blasting music from a boat going only 10 mph. It offended me, and I love boating. If we can't walk is another's shoes, It won't turn out well.

Actually the stereo issue is state wide. Here in Jefferson Co. we are looking into making it a county ordinance (to cover Lake Billy Chinook), which can be done a lot faster than a state law. Loud music is also really easy to bust (way easier than say articulating that a boat is overloaded). The law would probably copy the noise violations that are on the books for traffic (which are really well written). Currently there are laws against engine noise, so we already have the sound meters. They did not go after the wake first, they have been wanting to to something about stereos for a long time, but that has happened more quietly because nobody is throwing a fuss against it like they are for wake enforcement.

[jetskipro550]

I would think that a river that can flucuate in depth 15+ feet from winter to summer would do more damage then 2-3 foot rollers from boats. Loud stereos is another thing. At this stage in my life I don't care at all about loud music, but I can see how it would bother other people. I am sure that if I had young children and someone a half mile away was blaring music with swearing in it I would be upset too.

[skurfer]

Just curious, how close was the boat to the dock when it went by? Is it just me, or do surf wakes tend to mellow out after awhile. Just have to give it some distance.

The music being played (blasted) has not been the focus of complaints by the homeowners. That being said, I agree that I don't want to listen to someone else's expletive laden music. This comes down to being curteous of others.

I imagine that laws will eventually be handed down that will regulate this as well.

obski, do you think the loud music is the real reason they're upset? But they're using the erosion as a means?

My feeling is the homeowners feel the river experience is degrading, with loud stereo's and large wakes causing it. They perceive the large, overloaded, loud wakeboard/party boat as the largest offender.

Loud music is harder to legislate, like on the highway not really much you can do; but the large wake seemed like a better opportunity to legislate a difference. So they went after that first.

I've been on a dock with a surfer passing by, 3' wake lifting the moored boat, with blasting music from a boat going only 10 mph. It offended me, and I love boating. If we can't walk is another's shoes, It won't turn out well.

[obski]

The music being played (blasted) has not been the focus of complaints by the homeowners. That being said, I agree that I don't want to listen to someone else's expletive laden music. This comes down to being curteous of others.

I imagine that laws will eventually be handed down that will regulate this as well.

obski, do you think the loud music is the real reason they're upset? But they're using the erosion as a means?

No, I don't think that is the main reason, but it is part of the reason.

I don't think the homeowners have a problem with a few boats out on the river skiing, boarding, tubing, or whatever. I really do think that it is the sheer number of boats that is creating the problem. The biggest reason for an increase in the number of boats is directly tied to the recent popularity of wakeboarding. The river is a zoo on the busiest times. I don't think we would be hearing about any legislation etc. if there were just a few boats out wakeboarding.

Edited April 5, 2008 by obski

[SKI LVR]

I would think that a river that can flucuate in depth 15+ feet from winter to summer would do more damage then 2-3 foot rollers from boats. Loud stereos is another thing. At this stage in my life I don't care at all about loud music, but I can see how it would bother other people. I am sure that if I had young children and someone a half mile away was blaring music with swearing in it I would be upset too.

River fluctuate 15+ feet??? Hardly. This is a mile or two upstream from the Falls at Oregon City. The falls keep the river level above them pretty stable. Now beneath the falls is very different. At Clackamas, Ross Island, the level can drop a LOT (deadheads appear south of Ross Island for instance in summer). Except for heavy rains and the releases from Detroit Dam, the river level does not change much above the falls.

[SKI LVR]

Just curious, how close was the boat to the dock when it went by? Is it just me, or do surf wakes tend to mellow out after awhile. Just have to give it some distance.

Maybe 75 feet

But the river is only 300' wide, so that is typical if there are a few boats out.

Wakes do mellow out some with distance, but only some in a river that size. Remember a pebble dropped into smooth water spreads out forever. If you've ever wanted smooth water, wakes from another boat don't disappear.

[jetskipro550]

I would think that a river that can flucuate in depth 15+ feet from winter to summer would do more damage then 2-3 foot rollers from boats. Loud stereos is another thing. At this stage in my life I don't care at all about loud music, but I can see how it would bother other people. I am sure that if I had young children and someone a half mile away was blaring music with swearing in it I would be upset too.

River fluctuate 15+ feet??? Hardly. This is a mile or two upstream from the Falls at Oregon City. The falls keep the river level above them pretty stable. Now beneath the falls is very different. At Clackamas, Ross Island, the level can drop a LOT (deadheads appear south of Ross Island for instance in summer). Except for heavy rains and the releases from Detroit Dam, the river level does not change much above the falls.

I didn't realize that. Down here in Salem it has changed 30+ feet during flood times. But usually changes at least 15ft in the winter vs. the summer.

[obski]

I would think that a river that can flucuate in depth 15+ feet from winter to summer would do more damage then 2-3 foot rollers from boats. Loud stereos is another thing. At this stage in my life I don't care at all about loud music, but I can see how it would bother other people. I am sure that if I had young children and someone a half mile away was blaring music with swearing in it I would be upset too.

River fluctuate 15+ feet??? Hardly. This is a mile or two upstream from the Falls at Oregon City. The falls keep the river level above them pretty stable. Now beneath the falls is very different. At Clackamas, Ross Island, the level can drop a LOT (deadheads appear south of Ross Island for instance in summer). Except for heavy rains and the releases from Detroit Dam, the river level does not change much above the falls.

I didn't realize that. Down here in Salem it has changed 30+ feet during flood times. But usually changes at least 15ft in the winter vs. the summer.

In the flood of 1996 the river rose 10 feet above flood stage. The river does fluctuate by 20 feet or more during the winter. See the following link for 200 days of data from Newberg.

I went to put in once this year, but the ramp was closed as it and the approach were completely under water.

[SKI LVR]

I would think that a river that can flucuate in depth 15+ feet from winter to summer would do more damage then 2-3 foot rollers from boats. Loud stereos is another thing. At this stage in my life I don't care at all about loud music, but I can see how it would bother other people. I am sure that if I had young children and someone a half mile away was blaring music with swearing in it I would be upset too.

River fluctuate 15+ feet??? Hardly. This is a mile or two upstream from the Falls at Oregon City. The falls keep the river level above them pretty stable. Now beneath the falls is very different. At Clackamas, Ross Island, the level can drop a LOT (deadheads appear south of Ross Island for instance in summer). Except for heavy rains and the releases from Detroit Dam, the river level does not change much above the falls.

I didn't realize that. Down here in Salem it has changed 30+ feet during flood times. But usually changes at least 15ft in the winter vs. the summer.

In the flood of 1996 the river rose 10 feet above flood stage. The river does fluctuate by 20 feet or more during the winter. See the following link for 200 days of data from Newberg.

I went to put in once this year, but the ramp was closed as it and the approach were completely under water.

Floods, winter storms, agreed. ('96 flood went above the retaining poles!)

I'm referring to summer when the issue at hand is relevant (lots of boats out, people on docks/yards).

In summer the level is relatively constant above the falls; thus trying to blame the erosion problem on boat wakes.

Look at the same graph at Newberg changing 'days back' to '365 days': during the summer the level hardly changes at all. (the falls are like a rim of a bathtub)

As previously discussed, the erosion issue can gain traction broad based; a few people's boats rocking and crashing in their moorage slips from a huge surf wake doesn't gain that traction.

Edited April 5, 2008 by SKI LVR

[GeorgeWBush]

I would think that a river that can flucuate in depth 15+ feet from winter to summer would do more damage then 2-3 foot rollers from boats. Loud stereos is another thing. At this stage in my life I don't care at all about loud music, but I can see how it would bother other people. I am sure that if I had young children and someone a half mile away was blaring music with swearing in it I would be upset too.

River fluctuate 15+ feet??? Hardly. This is a mile or two upstream from the Falls at Oregon City. The falls keep the river level above them pretty stable. Now beneath the falls is very different. At Clackamas, Ross Island, the level can drop a LOT (deadheads appear south of Ross Island for instance in summer). Except for heavy rains and the releases from Detroit Dam, the river level does not change much above the falls.

I didn't realize that. Down here in Salem it has changed 30+ feet during flood times. But usually changes at least 15ft in the winter vs. the summer.

In the flood of 1996 the river rose 10 feet above flood stage. The river does fluctuate by 20 feet or more during the winter. See the following link for 200 days of data from Newberg.

I went to put in once this year, but the ramp was closed as it and the approach were completely under water.

Floods, winter storms, agreed. ('96 flood went above the retaining poles!)

I'm referring to summer when the issue at hand is relevant (lots of boats out, people on docks/yards).

In summer the level is relatively constant above the falls; thus trying to blame the erosion problem on boat wakes.

Look at the same graph at Newberg changing 'days back' to '365 days': during the summer the level hardly changes at all. (the falls are like a rim of a bathtub)

As previously discussed, the erosion issue can gain traction broad based; a few people's boats rocking and crashing in their moorage slips from a huge surf wake doesn't gain that traction.

You know you'd think that home owners and boat owners alike would want to team up on a real problem, like say mmm I don't know, the raw sewage in the river. Didn't somebody actually contract the flesh eating virus from swimming in the Willamette a few years ago?

[obski]

I would think that a river that can flucuate in depth 15+ feet from winter to summer would do more damage then 2-3 foot rollers from boats. Loud stereos is another thing. At this stage in my life I don't care at all about loud music, but I can see how it would bother other people. I am sure that if I had young children and someone a half mile away was blaring music with swearing in it I would be upset too.

River fluctuate 15+ feet??? Hardly. This is a mile or two upstream from the Falls at Oregon City. The falls keep the river level above them pretty stable. Now beneath the falls is very different. At Clackamas, Ross Island, the level can drop a LOT (deadheads appear south of Ross Island for instance in summer). Except for heavy rains and the releases from Detroit Dam, the river level does not change much above the falls.

I didn't realize that. Down here in Salem it has changed 30+ feet during flood times. But usually changes at least 15ft in the winter vs. the summer.

In the flood of 1996 the river rose 10 feet above flood stage. The river does fluctuate by 20 feet or more during the winter. See the following link for 200 days of data from Newberg.

I went to put in once this year, but the ramp was closed as it and the approach were completely under water.

Floods, winter storms, agreed. ('96 flood went above the retaining poles!)

I'm referring to summer when the issue at hand is relevant (lots of boats out, people on docks/yards).

In summer the level is relatively constant above the falls; thus trying to blame the erosion problem on boat wakes.

Look at the same graph at Newberg changing 'days back' to '365 days': during the summer the level hardly changes at all. (the falls are like a rim of a bathtub)

As previously discussed, the erosion issue can gain traction broad based; a few people's boats rocking and crashing in their moorage slips from a huge surf wake doesn't gain that traction.

Right, but JSP's argument was that the large fluctuations in river depth from winter to summer had more to do with erosion than boat wakes. I don't know if that is right or wrong.

[jetskipro550]

Thats what I was trying to say

[skurfer]

I would think that a river that can flucuate in depth 15+ feet from winter to summer would do more damage then 2-3 foot rollers from boats. Loud stereos is another thing. At this stage in my life I don't care at all about loud music, but I can see how it would bother other people. I am sure that if I had young children and someone a half mile away was blaring music with swearing in it I would be upset too.

River fluctuate 15+ feet??? Hardly. This is a mile or two upstream from the Falls at Oregon City. The falls keep the river level above them pretty stable. Now beneath the falls is very different. At Clackamas, Ross Island, the level can drop a LOT (deadheads appear south of Ross Island for instance in summer). Except for heavy rains and the releases from Detroit Dam, the river level does not change much above the falls.

I didn't realize that. Down here in Salem it has changed 30+ feet during flood times. But usually changes at least 15ft in the winter vs. the summer.

In the flood of 1996 the river rose 10 feet above flood stage. The river does fluctuate by 20 feet or more during the winter. See the following link for 200 days of data from Newberg.

I went to put in once this year, but the ramp was closed as it and the approach were completely under water.

Floods, winter storms, agreed. ('96 flood went above the retaining poles!)

I'm referring to summer when the issue at hand is relevant (lots of boats out, people on docks/yards).

In summer the level is relatively constant above the falls; thus trying to blame the erosion problem on boat wakes.

Look at the same graph at Newberg changing 'days back' to '365 days': during the summer the level hardly changes at all. (the falls are like a rim of a bathtub)

As previously discussed, the erosion issue can gain traction broad based; a few people's boats rocking and crashing in their moorage slips from a huge surf wake doesn't gain that traction.

I'm referring to the winter. It's hard for me to believe wakes cause more erosion in the summer during low water conditions than high water (more current) in the winter. Look at the color of the river in the winter, it's brown! Which means more erosion! If you don't agree, prove to me that wakes from boats are causing more erosion than high runoff in the winter/spring!! Then this recommendation will sit better with me. Sorry, I can't just believe what some homeowner says! This is why I have such a problem with the OSMB, they admit they have no data to support the homeowners claims, yet they want to make more laws?

My point is, the Willametter River watershed has many more important problems than erosion caused by wakeboard boats. Someone touched on the sewage already, tack on logging, development, urban runoff, farming, pesticides, toxic mixing zones, etc. Look at the studies on resident fish in the Willametter River and Newberg Pool. So filled with toxins they make BIG warning signs not to eat them! Especially pregnant women! But, let's not concentrate on the bigger problems with the Willamette, let's pick on wakeboard boats?

[skurfer]

I'm referring to summer when the issue at hand is relevant (lots of boats out, people on docks/yards).

In summer the level is relatively constant above the falls; thus trying to blame the erosion problem on boat wakes.

In the bigger picture, I don't see the relevance!

Edited April 6, 2008 by skurfer