Prop questions holeshot versus top-end

[badbyz]

Im positive

[NorCaliBu]

WoW is my prop too big??

My boat came from the factory with 13.5 x 17.5 .150 four blade ACME

I have a Hammerhead 383. Seems to top out around 48mph at 5200.

Help I am very new to inboard boats and after reading this forum...very confused.

Those numbers just don't add up for me. Are you sure you read the prop right, or perhaps the v-drive has a gear reduction? That's a prop you would see on a Mastercraft with powerslot or a Nautique.

I'm positive

badbyz - I posted a reply to your question and it ended up being the last post on page four and electricjohn posted at the same time so maybe you missed mine. Your boat does have a gear reduction.

Different boats. The boat of discussion here is a direct drive (1:1), your boat is a v-drive and v-drive units have a gear reduction in them.

[areamike]

Eric will be sending me a prop or two to try out next week. I'll post my results once I've tested.

On a side note; I do have to say. I am amazed at the Customer service form both of these companies. Dave from SkiertoSkier, Eric from OJ and Bill from ACME have both been above and beyond GREAT and I want to say a huge thanks to them all.

If anyone ever has or will deal with these companies, they know exactly what I'm talking about. THAT is what Customer Service is all about. Too bad we live in a world where it is usually lacking.

[electricjohn]

WoW is my prop too big??

My boat came from the factory with 13.5 x 17.5 .150 four blade ACME

I have a Hammerhead 383. Seems to top out around 48mph at 5200.

Help I am very new to inboard boats and after reading this forum...very confused.

Those numbers just don't add up for me. Are you sure you read the prop right, or perhaps the v-drive has a gear reduction? That's a prop you would see on a Mastercraft with powerslot or a Nautique.

I'm positive

badbyz - I posted a reply to your question and it ended up being the last post on page four and electricjohn posted at the same time so maybe you missed mine. Your boat does have a gear reduction.

Different boats. The boat of discussion here is a direct drive (1:1), your boat is a v-drive and v-drive units have a gear reduction in them.

(gear reduction) That I did not know.

[badbyz]

WoW is my prop too big??

My boat came from the factory with 13.5 x 17.5 .150 four blade ACME

I have a Hammerhead 383. Seems to top out around 48mph at 5200.

Help I am very new to inboard boats and after reading this forum...very confused.

Those numbers just don't add up for me. Are you sure you read the prop right, or perhaps the v-drive has a gear reduction? That's a prop you would see on a Mastercraft with powerslot or a Nautique.

I'm positive

badbyz - I posted a reply to your question and it ended up being the last post on page four and electricjohn posted at the same time so maybe you missed mine. Your boat does have a gear reduction.

Different boats. The boat of discussion here is a direct drive (1:1), your boat is a v-drive and v-drive units have a gear reduction in them.

Ok next question.....

My boat does have a 1.2:1 gear reduction. As stated before I had a acme 817 that came stock on the boat. To make a long story short I damaged the prop. The only replacement I could find on short notice was a acme 381.

QUESTION: I am going to have the 817 repaired and since the only difference in the two props is cup, should I try and trade for a spare of a different size? We use the boat primarily for wakesurfing and wakeboarding and cruising around the lake. Bill from ACME recommended the acme 1125 which is a 13.5 x 16 .150 however when I queried I reported the gear ratio was 1:1. Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[D-GOOSE]

I see that you have an 08 with the HH eng. How was the prop wash and center roost with the 817?

If you keep the 381 you could have it sent in to be cupped to the .150 making it a 817.

The 1125 will give you better hole shot.

[badbyz]

I see that you have an 08 with the HH eng. How was the prop wash and center roost with the 817?

If you keep the 381 you could have it sent in to be cupped to the .150 making it a 817.

The 1125 will give you better hole shot.

Being new to inboards the best I can say is that the center roost is really only noticeable when ballasts are full and wedge down.

How much top end speed should I expect to loose and is better holeshot what I need??

Thanks for all the help

[areamike]

Anyone know if CVP still makes props? I am starting to think I may just get another SS CVP prop for my boat and forget this whole Nibral stuff.

I've tried 4 props so far from ACME(1) and OJ(3), and none have been satisfactory. ACME just sent me a 5th prop to try. A 425 13x13, after the 13x14 was a no-go. But I'm guessing I wont be fully satisfied with it either. Not to mention for over 450 bones, I would want stainless. I can't understand why the ACME is almost 100 dollars more than the OJ. They seem to look and perform similar and are made of similar materials. Not to mention the fact that ACME makes you pay shipping both ways. OJ only made me pay shipping one way one time. I've dumped over 75 bucks just in shipping costs.

Don't let my post fool anyone. I am NOT bad mouthing either company in ANY way. I am simply stating the differences.

[awilco]

Anyone know if CVP still makes props? I am starting to think I may just get another SS CVP prop for my boat and forget this whole Nibral stuff.

I've tried 4 props so far from ACME(1) and OJ(3), and none have been satisfactory. ACME just sent me a 5th prop to try. A 425 13x13, after the 13x14 was a no-go. But I'm guessing I wont be fully satisfied with it either. Not to mention for over 450 bones, I would want stainless. I can't understand why the ACME is almost 100 dollars more than the OJ. They seem to look and perform similar and are made of similar materials. Not to mention the fact that ACME makes you pay shipping both ways. OJ only made me pay shipping one way one time. I've dumped over 75 bucks just in shipping costs.

Don't let my post fool anyone. I am NOT bad mouthing either company in ANY way. I am simply stating the differences.

Hi,

Have you tried the Acme 449? I have one around that I am not using.

A

[areamike]

Anyone know if CVP still makes props? I am starting to think I may just get another SS CVP prop for my boat and forget this whole Nibral stuff.

I've tried 4 props so far from ACME(1) and OJ(3), and none have been satisfactory. ACME just sent me a 5th prop to try. A 425 13x13, after the 13x14 was a no-go. But I'm guessing I wont be fully satisfied with it either. Not to mention for over 450 bones, I would want stainless. I can't understand why the ACME is almost 100 dollars more than the OJ. They seem to look and perform similar and are made of similar materials. Not to mention the fact that ACME makes you pay shipping both ways. OJ only made me pay shipping one way one time. I've dumped over 75 bucks just in shipping costs.

Don't let my post fool anyone. I am NOT bad mouthing either company in ANY way. I am simply stating the differences.

Hi,

Have you tried the Acme 449? I have one around that I am not using.

A

Thanks, that's the next one ACME is apparently wanting to ship me. If this 425 does not workout and it looks like the 449 would be perfect for me, perhaps we should discuss...I'll let you know. thanks

I found a used 13x12.5 CVP stainless on craigslist for only 75 bones, but that would be too low pitch for me. 6000 RPM again does not sound good again

[BillFooter]

You might also look for an OJ 3 blade stainless. I bought 13 x 13 a couple of years ago on a close out sale. They don't make them anymore. Mine performs the same as my 13 x 13 CVP did.

[D-GOOSE]

I am having a hard time figuring out how both companys can't find a prop to fix your needs. Both have great customer survice and have done tons of testing and reports on all the props.

Mike you have a PM.

[mrothwell]

I've got 2 CVP stainless props that I'd sell you. Not sure on the pitch, one was original on my 97 Echelon, the second was original on my 99 SSLxi. I think one is a 13x13, the other is 13x12.5, but not sure. One is in great condition, the other has some rough edges.

[VinRLX]

Anyone know if CVP still makes props? I am starting to think I may just get another SS CVP prop for my boat and forget this whole Nibral stuff.

Mike, there is a reasons CVP is no longer in business. Throwing blades is one of them. Stainless from whatever company may be the best option in your application, which is different from most. However, were I you, I would test as many as possible and choose the best option from ACME or OJ. . .

[VinRLX]

Oh, and ACME is likely more because they were the first with CNC. OJ likely undercut the price to get back in the game. FWIW

[areamike]

Anyone know if CVP still makes props? I am starting to think I may just get another SS CVP prop for my boat and forget this whole Nibral stuff.

Mike, there is a reasons CVP is no longer in business. Throwing blades is one of them. Stainless from whatever company may be the best option in your application, which is different from most. However, were I you, I would test as many as possible and choose the best option from ACME or OJ. . .

I have no problem "testing" but the shipping costs are killing me.

Throwing blades? You mean a blade just comes off? Gone? Cya?

[D-GOOSE]

I see that you have an 08 with the HH eng. How was the prop wash and center roost with the 817?

If you keep the 381 you could have it sent in to be cupped to the .150 making it a 817.

The 1125 will give you better hole shot.

Being new to inboards the best I can say is that the center roost is really only noticeable when ballasts are full and wedge down.

How much top end speed should I expect to loose and is better holeshot what I need??

Thanks for all the help

let me know what you find from prop to prop on the roost. I have always thought if you have to much cup that the roost would increase with the wedge down.

I dont kow. Do you need more holeshot? What kind of weight are you putting in the boat and how often do you hit WOT?

If you want just PM so that we can talk a little faster.

[NorCaliBu]

Throwing blades? You mean a blade just comes off? Gone? Cya?

If you're lucky...comes off. Gone. Cya. If you're not lucky it comes up through the bottom of the boat.

I wouldn't run a CVP prop. There's a reason they are no longer in business.

[areamike]

ok..you guys are helping me in no way. Prop Blades flying off?

I have the 13x13 ACME on now. She is sitting in the driveway and we are heading to a private lake this Sunday to ski with a friend on a course and practice some Figure 8 footin'. Hopefully the lake is long enough to get some testing done with the prop. At the very least we will get to see what the middle range speeds/rpm's are and how the pull and wake turn out to be.

P.S. reason for edit. I have to go lay down now because I just threw up in my mouth a little with the thought of a prop blade flying through my hull.

Edited April 18, 2008 by areamike

[Eric Johnson]

Oh, and ACME is likely more because they were the first with CNC. OJ likely undercut the price to get back in the game. FWIW

This makes no sense to me. Yes, Acme was first to sell a CNC machined propeller to the tow boat market. We, OJ, had a propeller in the market a year later. We had 3 years of development in the project before we introduce the props. The other guys had many more than that before a prop was produced that was even close to our FORCE propeller line. We were both in development of the CNC props at the same time. Yes, our props came out after the Acme's did but how does that relate to price today? Acme and OJ both build quality parts from the same material using the same process. Why the price difference? Not sure. I do know that I have not, will not, deliberatly low ball a price to get business. That is just not how we operate and have stayed in the propeller business for over 70 years, specifically in the tow boat market for nearly 30 years.

The props cost what they cost, in todays volitale metals market those costs change frequently. The pricing for the metal we use is as nutty as fuel prices or lobster, you never know what you will pay from one day to the next. In fact we have seen the metal pricing consistanly increasing this year, as it has over the past 3 years, with no end in sight. The cost to machine a propeller is not cheap either. The amount of time it takes to machine propellers is much longer than the time it takes to hand finish the same number of propellers. This means a lot of machines to produce volume. The machines used are very expensive up front and to maintain. Five axis machining centers are complex and pricey. Want less expensive propellers? So do I. In this world of CNC machined propellers pricing will not go down. Hand finished props?

Pricing is a funny thing really. How much profit is too much profit? Anyone.....? Yes we are in business to make a profit however we are not in business to just make a profit. We price all of our products fairly with the guy who has to make the purchase in mind, as I am one of those guys too. We work very hard to keep the costs we can control low. Some costs we cannot control and have to be passed on. For me this thing we do is very personal in that it is my name, the name of my Father, Grandfather, Great Grandfather and hopefuly the name of my 10 year old son, that is on our products. So you guys will have to excuse me if this response seems a tad personal, it is.

Mike - I am still fine tuning the propellers we discussed. I have run the prop we had talked about and want to make a few changes. I will be cutting some new parts next week, so hang in there.

[areamike]

Thanks Eric, I'm not going anywhere.

[areamike]

Ah, that brings me to a question. Just what is CNC and what is the purpose?

[Eric Johnson]

Ah, that brings me to a question. Just what is CNC and what is the purpose?

The puropse is to produce a propeller that is fully machined on a mill. Producing a part that is repeatable time and time again within tight tolerances. The flip side is we produce parts that are hand finished, an art when done correctly, from castings that are produced from CNC machined patterns. The hand finishing process is a clean up of the CNC machined casting, minimal material being removed. Cupping would be added by hand, again an art. When done correctly and with care the hand finished propeller is a fine product. While the tolerances may not be that of the CNC machined part, the variances are still very close from part to part. Much closer than the plus or minus allowed for say engine HP, which is +/- 10%. Bottom line, we can produce the same style and type of propeller by hand that is produced via the CNC machining process. Remember when something built by hand was sought after? One wonders why a "factory bluprinted" (by hand) propeller from Mercury is a pricey and treasured piece. Yes I do understand that in todays world CNC machined anything is more sought after than a hand made anything but we have to understand we will pay a high price for that particular anything.

[areamike]

Ah, that brings me to a question. Just what is CNC and what is the purpose?

The puropse is to produce a propeller that is fully machined on a mill. Producing a part that is repeatable time and time again within tight tolerances. The flip side is we produce parts that are hand finished, an art when done correctly, from castings that are produced from CNC machined patterns. The hand finishing process is a clean up of the CNC machined casting, minimal material being removed. Cupping would be added by hand, again an art. When done correctly and with care the hand finished propeller is a fine product. While the tolerances may not be that of the CNC machined part, the variances are still very close from part to part. Much closer than the plus or minus allowed for say engine HP, which is +/- 10%. Bottom line, we can produce the same style and type of propeller by hand that is produced via the CNC machining process. Remember when something built by hand was sought after? One wonders why a "factory bluprinted" (by hand) propeller from Mercury is a pricey and treasured piece. Yes I do understand that in todays world CNC machined anything is more sought after than a hand made anything but we have to understand we will pay a high price for that particular anything.

The funny thing is. The 3 props I was sent from SkiertoSkier all looked like they had been run through a grinder. The front side of the prop looked ok. But the back side had no uniformity to the, what I would call, grinding marks. I'm sure they are all in balance etc. but the overall look did not look clean. The ACME's I have tested were basically the same way.

[D-GOOSE]

I have been dealing with ACME and OJ for the past 3 yrs and say that both companies put out top notch products. I know both companies will put forth great effort to make every customer happy and with Eric it is about families past, present and future history. When a company or vender like Skier to Skier is willing to ship out a new prop with no shipping cost, its cutting into the profits, but once again they are more then willing do what it take’s to make a customer happy. For me, seeing some one test over 5 props on a boat with out being happy with any of them and dealing with 3 very knowledgeably companies make me wonder what’s going on. I mean, why would it take this long to find just the right prop. I know you have a different deal with all the power. I don’t know maybe I’m missing some thing and need to be filled in.

As a side note. Why would you want to pull in a 4th company to see what prop would be best?