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Water powered engine modification...


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Apparently, there is a way to modify an engine so that it run's on hydrogen that is extracted from water using electrolyses...

I met a guy from collège last week that told me that he is going this at his house to power a power generator to produce part of the electricity needed for his house.

The way he goes this is that using electrolyses (seperating the hydrogen and oxygene from water using electrodes). The oxygene and hydrogen mixture is injected in the carburator using a propane engine modification kit. A circuit modifies the DC pulses in frequency according to the power needed. The more power that is needed, the faster the frequency. The hydrogen/oxygen mixture is produced on demande, so there is no dangerous quantities of hydrogen stored onboard your boat. He says he only needs about 3/4 of a liter of water a month and produces 10% of his electrical consumption. The only maintenance needed other than changing the oil is adding water and cleaning out the electrodes.

I immediatly transposed this to my boat... not only this would not pollute the air, it would actually de-pollute the water because the poluted water from the lake would enter the reservoir, pure water would be exhausted after combustion and all the impureties would remain in the electrode tank.

Has anyone ever tried or heard of this?

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If that college kid can figure out how to separate the hydrogen and oygen using less energy than his machine will produce he'll be famous indeed. This includes the power from the power company for the electroysis.

It's fine to operate you house on Hydrogen that you 'generate' yourself, but if it could be done without using more power than it consumes, it would be common place, don't you think?

He's not trying to sell you a set plans for such a machine, is he? Whistling.gif

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If that college kid can figure out how to separate the hydrogen and oygen using less energy than his machine will produce he'll be famous indeed. This includes the power from the power company for the electroysis.

It's fine to operate you house on Hydrogen that you 'generate' yourself, but if it could be done without using more power than it consumes, it would be common place, don't you think?

He's not trying to sell you a set plans for such a machine, is he? Whistling.gif

Plus1.gif I agree, if this were that easy, wouldn't we all be using this Dontknow.gif Although, here in AZ there are those people who have paid to put up solar panels on their roofs and "created" enough energy for all the electricity they need. As a matter of fact, one particular gentleman I spoke w/ had a "reservoir" of some sort that stored the extra energy he acquired from the sun and then he sold it back to the power company. The setup cost him nearly $10 thousand, but after tax breaks (I believe he said around $4,000) and the power that he makes and uses and sells back to the power company he would have this original investment pd for in less than 2 years Drool.gif

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If that college kid can figure out how to separate the hydrogen and oygen using less energy than his machine will produce he'll be famous indeed. This includes the power from the power company for the electroysis.

It's fine to operate you house on Hydrogen that you 'generate' yourself, but if it could be done without using more power than it consumes, it would be common place, don't you think?

He's not trying to sell you a set plans for such a machine, is he? Whistling.gif

No, he isn't trying to sell me anything and I am aware of the theorie that nothing is lost and nothing is created (energy is transformed). But in this case, the energy that comes from the explosion would be much greater than the energy needed to seperate the oxygen and hydrogene molicules from a water molicule. I am not saying that it works or not, but the theory is plausible (not sure that is spelled right...) ...no? Dontknow.gif Apparently his generator is a crank start and the power produced from the alternator is sufficient to seperate the H and O molicules.

Are there any physicians (not doctors but someone who has studied physics) that are part of the Crew? Maybe someone can tell us how much energy (joules) it takes to seperate a litre or gallon of water and how much energy is produced by the hydrogen and oxygen produced by that same quantity of water?

EDIT: When I say a guy from college, it is a guy who I went to college with about 15 years ago, not an actual college student... not that a college student is not bright enough, but this guy has a few years experience under his belt.

Edited by 1FootDan
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A long, tough read...just go to the bold stuff at the end...

Question

How much Hydrogen can be extracted from a gallon of water? Is there any reason why a fuel cell powered aquatic vehicle (boat, submarine) could not supplement the Hydrogen supplies on-board with Hydrogen extracted from sea water, thus extending their range?

Asked by: Michael Ogilvie

Answer

The amount of hydrogen extracted from a gallon of water can be found very easily using the molecular weight of H20 (water), Hydrogen and Oxygen, along with mass conservation. the molecular weight of water is 2 H (molecular weight 1) + 1 Oxygen (Molecular weight 16) for a total of 18. And for every Molecule of water converted, we would get 2 Molecules of Hydrogen.

So, now the question is, how many molecules of water are there in a gallon of water? The density of water is 1g/(cm3) so in 1 gallon of water ( about 3.785 Liters or 3785 cm3) the mass of the water is, 3785g. 1 mole of 6.02x1023 molecules of water is equal has the mass in grams equal to the molecular weight or 18 grams per mole. so 3785 grams corresponds to about 1.265 x 1026 molecules of water.

Now, if every single one of those molecules were converted into Hydrogen we would get twice as much hydrogen as we had of water. or 2.53 x 1026 molecules of hydrogen. however since hydrogen is a diatomic molecule, meaning that the hydrogen that we talk about is H2, we would get 1.265 x 1026 molecules of hydrogen. at 1 atmospheric pressure and 273K, 1 mole of hydrogen fills approximately 22.4L of volume. so 1.265 x 1026 molecules or about 210 moles, would fill 4707 Liters of volume.

As for the reason that you cannot merely extract hydrogen to continuously power your aquatic vehicle, it is due to simple conservation of energy. Simply put, the energy you use to convert the water in the ocean into hydrogen would be at most equal to the energy that hydrogen could provide. Of course due to frictional losses, from things like resistance in your apparatus, you would actually end up using up more energy to get the hydrogen than you would gain from using it as a fuel source.

Frictional losses in your friends case would be spinning a generator to produce the electricity to power 10% of his home.

If he's on to a new technology, more power to him (no pun intended), and I'd be very interested in reading about it.

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good ideas

The handling of H2 is not easy at all

I used propane in my old boat (caburator system)

and will use it in my new one as well (mpi system)

propane is on the half price of gas here ...

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