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Boomer

Wakeboard size

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Boomer

Ok, I'm not too heavy, just too short... Crazy.gif

Near the end of last of last year I bought a Hyperlite Premier DNA sized for my weight (230lbs), it's a 141cm. This is a pretty advanced board, designed by Danny Harf, and most say it's a very good board. It's a subtle 3-stage, the center stage being very flat with no grooves.

I've been trying to ride it all year, and just never felt good. In fact, I was getting pissed about my riding, it wasn't fun. I could barely cut, or jump. The board feels very controllable, but I just never could cut hard or jump much with it.

Flash to yesterday. As we were about to leave, I decided to give my wife's Hyperlite Divine 134 a try, just for fun. The Divine is basically a Hyperlite Motive, with girl graphics. I think this design is a few years old, made by Shaun Murray.

Man, I felt like a new man. It ROCKED. I was cutting hard, jumping, sliding in perfect control. I couldn't believe how much better I was riding on the lower-end Divine. It was fun, I freaking took two more sessions before we left the lake I was having so much fun on it. Now I'm all pumped again, after being frustrated all year so far.

Now hear this, according to all the charts, the 134cm is way small for me. I'm 230 lbs. the 141 Premier should fit, but I'm pretty short. Does height have as much to do with board size as weight? Maybe I'm too short for a long Premier 141?

Would a short Premier feel good to me, or is it just the design of the Motive more matching my style? I'm really wondering if it's the size I am liking, or just the design of the board itself.

I'm thinking size has a lot to do with it. I used to have a LF Trip 143, which never felt near as good to me as my brother's Trip 138, even though the 143 was supposed my size based on weight.

As it stands, I'm about to order me a 134 motive. It freaks me out to do it, because all the charts say it's "up to 175 lbs" which I'm way over, but DAMN it felt awesome. I also feel like an idiot ordering up a short Motive over my Premier DNA, and I screwed up?

Comments from wakeboarders appreciated...

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aneal000

Before we go much farther I want to question your speed and rope length? Because they will affect the feeling/performance of the board.

Your height has very little to do with the feeling you have. The Devine/Motive is Murray's shape from circa 2000/2001. Great board! Very stable, forgiving, easy to ride shape. Hyperlite knew it was such a good board they hated to ditch the molds; so you still find it in production with the chicks graphics and in the Experience Line as the Motive. I rode the 134 and 140 versions of it for a long time and my wife currently has a 134 Divine. The Premier is an interesting board. I know a lot of people that love them and hate them, I'm on the dislike side of that shape. I've rode them a few times but they don't do much for me.

The basics behind your weight. Yes a 134 (anything) is to small for a 230 pound rider. But what does that mean? The board will actually feel more reactive than the same shape in the proper (larger) size. The biggest problem with riding a small board is landing/sticking tricks. A board that is to small is very easy to A) catch an edge, B) stick the nose in, C) slip out from under you. Many years ago I thought I knew what I was doing and spent a summer on a Hyperlite Juvi 131 HC - btw I weigh close to 200 lbs. While the board felt really cool and light, etc.. I was as inconsistent as they come! Long story short, I broke the board and played around on a byerly 142 until my new one showed up and I was amazed at how much more stable it was and how my consistentsy improved. I then moved to the Murray/Belmont 140 and was very happy.

Wakeboarding is about having fun, so don't sweat the charts and graphs to much, ride something that is fun. Every board has a different feel, I think you should try some different boards before you buy a new one. One that I would highly recommend is the Motive 140, it's the same shape as your Divine, but bigger for your weight, it might be just what your looking for. Or if you can find one somewhere, check out the Belmont 141 (pre Temet shape from Murray) very good riding board! Good luck!

Edited by aneal000

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Boomer

Ended up at 20 mph (calibrated), about a 70-foot line I think. I was trying to go faster, but I'm just not ready yet. Was trying 21 and 22, but on the Premier at least, I couldn't freaking turn at all hardly.

Even at 20, I just can't seem to cut hard on the Premier. It's so wide and big. My edge toward the wake sucks, I just cant dig in the edge, it wants to stay flat.

Landing tricks right now is sorta not that high on priority. I'm just over novice. Last summer I could go wake to wake pretty good, etc. but I'm a long way from really "landing tricks." I have pretty good board control. I can do surface 180's pretty easy, butterslide, etc. I'm a long way from a tantrum though, heh.

Another problem for me is I was a slalom skier for years, so I keep having to break slalom habits. My instinct is to absorb and cut through the wake instead of "standing tall" and jumping.

The short motive seemed to let me cut hard, like a ski, whereas the big Premier was hard to turn on.

Even wierder, the Premier didn't pop as good for me, although being a 3-stage it should pop better. I guess because I couldn't get it on edge as well as the shorter Motive.

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hyperlitenerd

I used to ride a motive 134 too. Try demoing some boards, I really like my liquid force team 139, I am 6'2 and 175 wet. If you want a really edgy board, try a lf balance, my friend just tried that and fell in love with it.

I tried the premier 2 years ago, and it was really hard to ride even though it was a 135 and I was riding my 134. So its not you, its the board.

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painterdrew

I think that your foot position and posture is the problem, not the board. You probably need to install your bindings at the widest point with a slight out turn at the toes. My guess is that you are not getting the fins deep enough into the water and you are predominantly riding on the center/ungrooved part of the board. No traction no grip no cut.

Try widening your stance, bend you knees and keep your shoulders squared over the board parallel to the board. Don't twist into a slalom stance. If you learn the proper way to stand you wont have to ride an incorrect board size to compensate.

Its better to break it down now and get it right, then to get the basics wrong and have re-learn later in order to improve.

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stewart

I have never ridden the Premier, but I do agree with Tony, the Motive is a great board! I rode that board the last 2 summers and it worked great.

You can find deals on them all over the net. If you want a 144, I have an extra I can part with.

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SacRiverRat

I think I can relate to Boomers issue... I tried a 138 HL TFD, and really loved how smooth it was off the wake. It was really intended to be my GF's board, so liking it so much I purchased a 142 TFD, and found it controllable, but a little harder for me to keep the pop from causing me to break at the knees (as Boomer mentioned)

I think it is more technique than anything, but can confirm that the smaller board probably doesn't hit as hard with the pop, and feels smoother...

of course - you are out to have fun.. if it feels good - do it! ;)

Edited by SacRiverRat

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WakeAndSno

I also had a similar experience with boards. I bought into alot of hype about 3-stage boards and none of them fit my riding style. Of course I didn't know it until i went to Ride The Spot. When I got there, I had a discussion with Darin (and Jonathan Nadolski) about my riding abilities and all. I had hit a wall and was having trouble with pulling my jumps consistenetly and could barely ever land my tricks. The first thing they asked was "What board do you ride?" I told them that I alternate between the Byerly 142 and the Absolute 141 - They pretty much responded in unison - "Oh no! Not another Byerly!" I continued to discuss it with them and basically they had proven over time that a continuous rocker (or at least progressive-continuous rocker) was the key to consistent pop - not necessarily the super pop, but just consistent, repeatable jumps. Of course at the time, Darin rode for Obrien and had the Demented. I rode his board and it made EVERY difference in the world. I now have two Obrien Demented 141's - despite the fact taht Darin is no longer using them) and my riding has improved an amazing amount. I'm by no means trying to sell the demented, but I would recommend demoing some more continuous rocker (like the motive) or at most a subtle 3 stage board. It really made a huge difference for me. I do recommend demoing as many boards as you can, you will defintiely find one that clicks and just feels right.

JZ

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Boomer

Ok, dropped by one of the big local shops, and talked with the local pro a while. Very cool guy...

He agreed that the Premier is one of those love it, or hate it boards. Some guys love it, other's don't. I'm not giving up yet, but after feeling the night/day difference yesterday when I rode the Motive, I am really thinking it's not for me.

Like Drew suggested, I'm going to move the boots out all the way tomorrow and see if that helps. Right now They're 2nd from the outside. I agree I need to get the board back on the end where the grooves are, but at my height, that's not easy on a board so big and thick.

The guy at the dealer said the Premier is the same for him, it tries to stay flat. It's a relatively thick board (looks almost 1" thick), and hard to sink. It's also very wide, and at my height I just don't know if I have the leverage.

He wasn't that thrilled with me wanting a Motive though, and feld I'd outgrow it too fast. He suggested some newer boards with similar styles I am going to demo.

As someone mentioned, maybe the 3-stage hype got me, and a continuous rocker board is better for me. It works good for Shaun Murray. :)

He suggested I try an '04 Temet demo they had, and maybe a newer Murray. He also had a few LF's I might try with similar designs. I might also try a shorter 3-stage board, so see if I like it. Maybe a LF Substance.

Right now I want to determine if it's the size difference, or board difference mainly I felt. I'm going to take a larger, 140 Motive out, to see if it feels good to me, or lousy like my big Premier.

If the 140 Motive feels good, I'll try some other 138-140 boards. He just felt a 134 was to small for me, regardless of how it felt to me that day, that I'd start burying the nose once I started jumping higher, etc.

I just want a freaking board I like, argh! I'm so stoked to go out again now after I rode that board, my Premier was really getting me down.

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gvnightrider

I have a premier now and I ride it finless, I used to have a continous team. Love both boards, they can produce the same level of out put. But the big difference is what kind of wake you are hitting and how you like to ride. Continous boards are more for those smaller wakes, and it takes speed to produce your pop. 3 stage is a little bit slower but if you take off the fins you will have a loser feeling or more of a continous feeling (IMO), but this board is more for big wakes. In short form, you want to go up and out in the flats, ride continous. If you want to pop up and down onto the wake you want the 3 stage.

What sounds to me what your biggest problem is your technique. Because you should be able to produce these results on any board. You might be standing straight with your legs and leaning over with your head over the handle. If you have the wakeboarding magazine, they explain the 3 ways to edge. But the way I think about edging is a rocking chair, the further you lean back the more force you are going to create. When you lean back, make sure your arms are straight and towards your hip or belly button. You can either keep your legs straight or bent. I suggest keeping your legs bent at this time, then dont take a 90 degree angle at the wake, more like a 45 angle, you want to go with the boat not away from the boat, and then stand tall. Remember, at the top of the wake knees bent = small jump, stand tall means huge jump. Its all timing and it just comes with practice.

Lastly, I have the vlx weighted and after reading a article on the two different board styles, I decided to demo the 3 stage and it completely change my riding style. Another thing that helped is focus on your edge and not think about the wake, once you have the edging down you can cut out 5 feet and still get the same pop if were to start out at 10ft

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gvnightrider

oh boomer i see your from austin, if you come to the texas wow, look for a yellow/black bu, wont miss it the hull is solid yellow and you can either hop on with me or vice versa and I can give you some pointers. I am not the best just intermidiate to advance rider. And I ride the river year round, so I should find some good water, well maybe not that weekend depending on the turn out.

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Boomer

More good advice, thanks. Maybe I'll mess with the Premier some more before giving up on it. I know it's a great board.

First I'm going to move the bindings all the way out, and probably back a little, so my heels are closer to the edge. I just looked at the board again, and this board should be able to cute hard, it's got a killer rail on it on the ends. I just can't seem to hit the wake on edge, the board wants to flatten out it's so big.

Maybe I'll take the center (small 0.8) fin off, but the board already feels plenty loose to me, I want to cut harder, not slide easier.

My whole thinking in trying the subtle 3-stage board was what you mention. I don't want speed, and flying way out into the flats. I'm too old for those high-speed crashes, lol. I want to pop up more, at a slower speed. That was my thinking anyway...

I still want to demo some other boards, continuous and 3-stage. Temet, Murray, maybe a LF Team, Subjekt, or Substance. I am not brand loyal with wakeboards, whatever works best for me I want.

I have an '05 VLX, so wake isn't the issue. Rockon.gif

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WakeAndSno

I'm going to have to disagree with some of gvnightrider's comments. I think he is right to a degree that the continuous will give you a little more out versus "POP" but like I said, the key part of it is the consistent pop/jump/distance/etc. The consistency is really the key and unless you are a really agressive rider, I tend to think that the 3-stage is not a great board type....

FWIW, I also tend to disagree about the wake comment as well. I don;t htink its necessarily "better for small wakes" and in fact I disagree, I think its great on big wakes. You will find peoplel from many camps taht feel strongly about the board type they ride. I'm jsut telling what I know from my experience. I had trouble on my 3-stage boards and then I switched to the continuous and have made HUGE strides in my riding.

Really, the best thing to do is demo until you find one YOU like.

JZ

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Boomer

I guess that's what it boils down to, I have to find what's right for ME. I think I'm going to demo a 138 Motive or Temet as the continuous rocker representative, then a LF substance 138 as the 3-stage representative.

I think the continuous rocker on the Motive may have been why I was jumping better, as you said, more consistent. Then again I was never very good on my continuous rocker Trip, sigh.

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WakeAndSno

FWIW - if you are anything like me - I hated the LF boards I rode (Trip and others) they were a bit too skatey for me. I'd also recommend looking into the State and you could get a great deal on my favorite the Obrien Demented these days since Darin is no longer with them :)

JZ

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Greg_S

Good reading,

its the type of post that may cost me a couple hundy Innocent.gif

Greg

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Boomer

Greg, I hear ya. :)

JZ, what do you mean by "Skatey." What kind of feeling does that describe?

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WakeAndSno

To me, "Skatey" mwans really loose ont he water. Imigagine a board without fins at all. (I think it may have been an LF substance a couple model years ago that was really like that).

JZ

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gvnightrider

I am not board loyal either, but it is true IMO continous sends you out to the flats and 3stage sends up and down. Far as my wake comment, you can see it on films that a continous will cut through the top of a huge wake, I would say beginner riders usually have a difficult time with that and it can cause a nose digger. The c shape of a 3 stage has the better angle on a big wake. On a dd, weighted, I can produce the same pop with a continous as I can create on a 3stage on a vlx wieghted. I am not saying one board is better than the other, I like both depending on the wake. That is why I still own both and ride them. You are correct demo demo until you find one that you like. But I do believe as you progress, it really dosnt matter what board you ride. It sounds to me his form is what is causing the issue. I am only 195 and I have no problem using this board, and I know a high school that this only a buck fifty and rides the same board. I bet if we could see a vid of his edging then that could produce our answers.

Another thing, how does he edge, does he use his feet to go heel side and toe side, or does you use his legs for the motion? I use my legs or shins, I have the zeuse bindings and they are pretty tall bindings. I didnt realize that I used my legs for my edging until my bindings broke and I had to use a pair of bylerlies. These bindings were just above my ankle and I could ride for crap and couldnt understand. Then once I got my zeus bindings back, I realized how much taller they were and notice my riding came back and that I was using my lower leg for board control than my feet.

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stusumm

Your style of riding will matter greatly. I am a rail rider like gvnightrider and the LF Substance tracks like a dream for me. I agree with the demo, demo, demo mentality. By the way, just let me know and you can borrow my 138 Substance.

And don't forget Gator boards when demoing. They have a really good product.

Edited by stusumm

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Greg_S

Boomer,

Another thing you may want to take a look at is this months WB mag, it has a good style / learning page on edging and and body positioning for good edging.

I ride a trip 143, not even sure which construction it is, and I hold a good edge on it. I'm 6'2" and pass you by 15 in the lb. department.

I also learned a lot from 'The Book' on body positioning for edging, surface 180's etc. It also showed me i'm more of a beginner than I thought I was, but that's ok because I'm having a great time!

Greg

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Boomer

Ok, going out for a few hours today, and I have a couple boards to demo. A Hyperlite Murray to represent the continuous rocker, and a LF Substance to represent 3-stage. Both are '05's.

Almost got a new HL State, which looks cool, but I know the Substance is recognized as a great 3-stage board, so I know the design is solid.

I passed on trying a HL Parks or Byerly. I think those are just too over my head.

Just looking at it, I think I'll like this Substance. Bottom looks a lot like the motive, but it's 3-stage. It's also very light and thin compared to the Murray.

I'll report back...

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Greg_S

Out riding on a Tue morning, THE LIFE!!!

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Boomer

Hah! I'm "renting" my services to several people from my wife's office, as an off-site for them. They have someone in from their London office who wants to wakeboard, and apparently he's pretty good. I'm going to be trying these new boards in the process, and will have them available for the guests to try as well.

Anyway, they're paying for it all. :) I took a day off. About to head out, it's 90 degrees outside right now, water 84 degrees. :)

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srud
Hah! I'm "renting" my services to several people from my wife's office, as an off-site for them. They have someone in from their London office who wants to wakeboard, and apparently he's pretty good. I'm going to be trying these new boards in the process, and will have them available for the guests to try as well.

Anyway, they're paying for it all. :) I took a day off. About to head out, it's 90 degrees outside right now, water 84 degrees. :)

I am pretty sure I hate you about now! Biggrin.gif

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