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Alkalie lakes vs fresh water lakes


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So I went out to a lake on Sunday that has a lot of akalie in it (Salt water basically) and we were riding behind an 07 23' Malibu wakesetter. It's the first time I have rode behind a 23' and I wasn't impressed with the wake it just didn't feel as big or bigger than mine which I thought it would be. The guy driving was a non boarder, skier, etc just liked being at the lake and his driving sucked, and I don't think he ever really got the center ballast tank filled but I know it was at least 3/4 way full and yes the wedge was down. I was going my normal 22 miles an hour and the wake was just not there.

My theory is this, because of the amount of akalie in the water is it possible to not make as deep of a foot print at faster speeds thus causing a smaller wake or am I just loosing my mine and that my VLX puts off a better wake. Dontknow.gif I have never had my boat in anything but fresh water and I have never rode behind an LSV in fresh water, so I am a little confused. Is my theory correct or am I just loosing my mind?

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Can't speak to the characteristics of the boat however anything in Saltwater will be more buoyant than non-saltwater. This should, in theory, create smaller wakes and cause you to be riding higher in the water. Did you find your board a little more slippery than usual?

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Can't speak to the characteristics of the boat however anything in Saltwater will be more buoyant than non-saltwater. This should, in theory, create smaller wakes and cause you to be riding higher in the water. Did you find your board a little more slippery than usual?

As far as the board goes maybe, but I am really comfortable on the board so I can't say it was noticeable.

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They've used 21 footers in every wakeboard tournament I've been to. I'm sure Malibu and Mastercraft would love to show off their limos at events like this while pulling the pros, but it seems like the 21 footers definitely put out the better wake. It's probably easier to get the weight distributed properly in a shorter boat.

I wouldn't think the boat would ride any differently in salt water vs. fresh water. Unless you were in the Great Salt Lake, maybe. I'd hate to be filling up ballast with salt water, though. Probably not what those sacks and tanks were designed for ...

Edited by sunscapeJeff
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Uh oh :unsure: Do we really want to go here....VLX vs LSV-My boat is better than yours. Tease.gif

Really though, it makes sense to me that with stock ballast a VLX might produce a wake as big or possibly bigger than an LSV. I am baseing this on the fact that an object in water is buoyed up by a force equal to or greater than the amount of water displaced. An LSV has a larger hull than the VLX and therefore displaces more water. As such it requires more mass to sit lower in the water than a VLX. The LSV also has more surface area on the water which could alter the shape of the wake...for better or worse, depending on what you like. It really boils down to what you like.

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They've used 21 footers in every wakeboard tournament I've been to. I'm sure Malibu and Mastercraft would love to show off their limos at events like this while pulling the pros, but it seems like the 21 footers definitely put out the better wake.

Then why do some of Malibu's pro riders train behind a LSV?

From Malibu's Website:

Teacher’s pet. The Wakesetter LSV is a must-have instructional tool for coaches such as World Champion wakeboarder Darin Shapiro and Team Malibu rider Gerry Nunn. Shapiro works wonders behind the Wakesetter 23 LSV at his elite wakeboard camp, Ride the Spot. Nunn tours the country with his Wakesetter 23 LSV, teaching clinics on the Just Ride tour. This is ample testimony to the boat’s versatility for levels of wakeboard performance

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Uh oh :unsure: Do we really want to go here....VLX vs LSV-My boat is better than yours. Tease.gif

Really though, it makes sense to me that with stock ballast a VLX might produce a wake as big or possibly bigger than an LSV. I am baseing this on the fact that an object in water is buoyed up by a force equal to or greater than the amount of water displaced. An LSV has a larger hull than the VLX and therefore displaces more water. As such it requires more mass to sit lower in the water than a VLX. The LSV also has more surface area on the water which could alter the shape of the wake...for better or worse, depending on what you like. It really boils down to what you like.

Haha, just playin'. :)

That's the money answer right there. The LSV with stock weight is different, but smaller isn't the word that I'd used. Our VLX wakes with stock ballast & wedge are big & steep. The LSV with the same weight & wedge is rampier, not nearly as steep. Last fall at the rentalake, chathamsolutions rode behind my VLX & his first comment after finishing his set was that the wake was exactly like his LSV's. The problem is that we were in 6-7' of water & it was visibly flattening out the wake, making it a lot rampier. The other thing was that I wasn't running the wedge last fall (except for a couple of riders that demanded it), & that made the wake a lot rampier than it normally is.

So IMO, what you're experiencing is the difference between a VLX & LSV with identical weight & wedge configurations, & that the water didn't have much to do with it. Don't get me wrong, the LSV is a fantastic boat & many of the pros use it, & that means world class wake capability. But they also add insane amounts of weight to it to make that wake. :)

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Interesting Birm ... Maybe if you weight it down properly there's no difference? Dontknow.gif

Granted, mine's on the diamond hull, so it's not a very valid comparison to today's boats, but my 23' LSV seems to put out a different wake than the 21' diamond hulls I've seen or been behind. First of all, it seems the wakes are so much farther apart on my boat, and the shape is a little less ... "rampy" ... I don't know the proper term. Not that I really complain, though; I love my boat!

Like you said Birm, it probably just comes down to what you like.

Edited by sunscapeJeff
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Interesting Birm ... Maybe if you weight it down properly there's no difference? Dontknow.gif

Granted, mine's on the diamond hull, so it's not a very valid comparison to today's boats, but my 23' LSV seems to put out a different wake than the 21' diamond hulls I've seen or been behind. First of all, it seems the wakes are so much farther apart on my boat, and the shape is a little less ... "rampy" ... I don't know the proper term. Not that I really complain, though; I love my boat!

Like you said Birm, it probably just comes down to what you like.

Exactly, it just takes a little more to get it there. The cool thing about this is that the potential is there to make a wake that would be cleaner farther back than what the VLX is capable of.

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Ask slider what he thinks of a 23' LSV vs. our VLXs with stock ballast. I'll give you a hint, he likes the wakes behind our boats better. ;)

Fingerwag.gif I never had a complaint from you guys when we were using my 23 LSV at WOW? Dontknow.gif

Having owned (2) 23 LSV's and having used a VLX for 35 hours plus numerous pulls behind a VLX, I gotta say I liked the 23 LSV better. I like the rampier wakes better and have a hard time with a more steep/vertical wake

But, if you guys want a steep vertical wake, I'm sure we could put the power wedge down on the 247 and make a few adjustments Tease2.gif

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The 247 is a different animal altogether, in a class all by itself. :lol: The 23 is a great boat, but Stew I think that you nailed it with this comment:

"Having owned (2) 23 LSV's and having used a VLX for 35 hours plus numerous pulls behind a VLX, I gotta say I liked the 23 LSV better. I like the rampier wakes better and have a hard time with a more steep/vertical wake"

It comes down to personal preference. Tim bought the VLX because he loved the wake that it puts out & he didn't like the 23' because it's different. After pulling him at the rentalake, I can see why. He really likes a big, vertical wake & the 23' doesn't naturally put that out. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

And for the record, I didn't say that slider dislikes the LSV's wake, he just likes the VLX better. :) So there wouldn't be any complaints at all, after all it's a Malibu vdrive - it's going to be pretty darn good no matter what. Clap.gif

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Wow, what did I start? Thanks for all the input, I will admit I have gotten very use to my boat and I'm sure I would love the LSV if I rode behind it a little longer and had everything full of ballast with 5-10 of my friends on board. Biggrin.gif I have another INT event this weekend and it will be behind a 23' I think and it will be in fresh water so I will be able to see if my theory was true or not. The only two Malibu's I have been behind is the VLX and the 247 so I assumed the LSV would fall between them. Different isn't always bad, just different and takes time to get use to.

Like I said on my original post the driver didn't seem to want to full all the tanks and I questioned his driving style, or lack there of. At the end of the day I was still pleased because I was at the lake relaxing with friends and wakeboarding behind a Malibu. Clap.gif

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Wow, what did I start? Thanks for all the input, I will admit I have gotten very use to my boat and I'm sure I would love the LSV if I rode behind it a little longer and had everything full of ballast with 5-10 of my friends on board. Biggrin.gif I have another INT event this weekend and it will be behind a 23' I think and it will be in fresh water so I will be able to see if my theory was true or not. The only two Malibu's I have been behind is the VLX and the 247 so I assumed the LSV would fall between them. Different isn't always bad, just different and takes time to get use to.

Like I said on my original post the driver didn't seem to want to full all the tanks and I questioned his driving style, or lack there of. At the end of the day I was still pleased because I was at the lake relaxing with friends and wakeboarding behind a Malibu. Clap.gif

That would have accentuated the difference. And as for the 247 comparison, remember that the 247 is on the V25 hull, but it's different from what the VLX & LSV are on. How that changes things, I don't know. But the telling point would be to see how an '08 23' would perform since that boat will have exactly the same hull as the 247.

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  • 1 month later...

things float more in salt water, thats why you cant sink a boat as much in salt, hence smaller wake.

i ride in salt all the time and i can tell a difference in wake size when i put my boat in fresh,

but there isnt any fresh water within 2 hrs of me.

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Ask slider what he thinks of a 23' LSV vs. our VLXs with stock ballast. I'll give you a hint, he likes the wakes behind our boats better. ;)

would that statement be true for surfing as well? I am considering selling and getting a 23' wakesetter thinking i will get a better surf wake with the 23.

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