Slalom wake evolution

[Arctic Slalom]

sethro,

thanks for the clarification! I guess I'm looking for the echelon LX. Those two boats (echelon and echelon LX) were the same length and ran on the same engine/hull/tranny correct? it will be a while before I'm really serious about upgrading as i've only had this boat for about 70 hours (since april).

btw, i work with a bunch of ISU alumi hard-cores. they are all architects, engineers and landscape architects....a great group of people; took one of them skiing last weekend in fact!

thanks,

CR

[Sethro]

CR,

Yes, they share the same hull/engine/tranny/etc. This is up for debate, but I was told back when I bought my 98 Echelon that the 98 model year would be a step-over bow like the Response LX. Now, I've seen a 98 Echelon LX (at least it was claimed to be a 98) for sale on boattrader or something like that with a walk-through to the open bow so who knows. 93-97 will have walk-thru bow. Supposedly very few 98 Echelons (or Echelon LX) were made as they were phased out that model year, and in fact the only 98 other than mine that I've seen was that one listed for sale.

I wouldn't consider myself a hardcore alum, only been back once in 10 years.

Seth

[Woodski]

Wake spray on the MC starts at 32 off and is pretty serious at 35 and up. I always ski with goggles behind the Prostar which is a 91 in this case. The new ones are better as I understand it for spray. MC was sold to AMF in the mid 90's and Rob Shirley, the founder went off to do other things, and eventually built the Infinity boat that has now been sold to Svara. The hull of the Response and Echelon are the same, it is the top cap that is different, the Echelon available with the walk through hull as the LX model. The Response is the step over. The 98 Echelon was a special order boat only and then gone after that. The Response LXi is basically the replacement for the Echelon. I would certainly ski the boats you are interested in before you purchase, that way you can have a good idea of what you'll be getting. Everybody likes something slightly different. If you find some old Waterski Magazine articles on the boat tests from the mid 90's you will see that when the SV23 hull came along, that really put Malibu on the map for the slalom skier and the boat won several Boat of the Year awards through the 90's.

[TLo]

The echelon lx has no storage. At least with the closed bow echelon you can put stuff behind the observers seat.

[meb885]

sethro,

thanks for the clarification! I guess I'm looking for the echelon LX. Those two boats (echelon and echelon LX) were the same length and ran on the same engine/hull/tranny correct? it will be a while before I'm really serious about upgrading as i've only had this boat for about 70 hours (since april).

btw, i work with a bunch of ISU alumi hard-cores. they are all architects, engineers and landscape architects....a great group of people; took one of them skiing last weekend in fact!

thanks,

CR

Come hang out with me in MI. you can ski as much as u want behind my 94 Echelon Closed Bow.....in exchange for gas money :-P Or in exchange for more funds you can tow it home with you. hahaha.

-Mark

[Arctic Slalom]

thanks guys for all the good perspectives...

i will ski behind all these before I purchase. my wife has 3 more years of residency (radiology) at mayo, so a newer boat b4 then is unlikely anyway...i've been looking around a bit at both echelons and responses and i keep finding late 90's and early 00's sunsetters. these are a bit longer and wider than the response, correct? how are these to ski behind? it looks like I can get a nice echelon for about 15k and a nice response/sunsetter for 20k. is this about right?

thanks,

CR

Edited July 24, 2007 by Arctic Slalom

[TLo]

You see some pretty weird radiographs at Mayo. X-rays can be tricky enough as it is with all the superimposed structures, but throw in somebody with unusual anatomy, that's tough.

[Woodski]

Keep up the good work and get that degree. I like the fact that my doc knows what the course is so he can keep me out on the water and on the slopes!

The Echelon and Response have the same lower section of the hull, basically they are the same boat. The Echelon LX is a walk through style while the Response LX is a walk over. The Echelon was the top end Malibu boat in the 90's, then the Response came out at a lower price point in about '96, the Echelon was made a couple more years. The Sunsetter is a bigger boat, you are correct on that. Prices sound about right.

If you get an open bow, since in MN, you will want a cover for the bow or a blocker for the walk through on cooler days. Options that you should look for to improve boating will be a heater and hot water shower, you should several boats with those options on them in your area.

[Sixball]

The 99 SSlxi up to I think 04 is on the diamond 23 hull and is a outstanding ski boat and not bad with a wedge for intry to mid level boarders. It is not weight sensitive like the smaller boats. I ski with two friends 99 and 03 SSlxi they ski as good as my 07 Rlxi. at short line no spray and great wake.

[Arctic Slalom]

You see some pretty weird radiographs at Mayo. X-rays can be tricky enough as it is with all the superimposed structures, but throw in somebody with unusual anatomy, that's tough.

Tlo,

You'll have to talk to my wife about that. She is the smarty-pants resident ; of course with her out of the house and working hard it gives me time to read themalibucrew (oh, yeah and watch the two kids)!

Et al,

back to boats...

What year did the Echelon turn into an EFI? What year could you get a Monsoon motor in these? I saw an Echelon with EFI and a Monsoon motor for sale but don't recall what year is was. How do the monsoon EFI motors compare to the old 5.7 mercruiser in fuel consumption? Is 08 Malibu Response going to come out with a turbo diesel (VW powerplant) or is MC just blowing smoke with a concept motor?

thanks!

CR

[smooth as glass]

Concur on the spray from the mastercraft 205. You simply cant go wrong on the 2000 lxi and up especially shortline! we ski both regularly.

[TRBenj]

You also have to be careful as to which year MC you get, they lost their way in the mid 90's and had some trouble's with the wake. The same applies with the Nautiques, but a '92 has a great wake, and the new ones are quite good. Both brands changed hulls a few times throughout the '90's.

Thats not quite true. If youre looking for a good slalom boat, I would avoid the 96+ Prostar 205 (which later became the first X-Star). The '95 and earlier is supposed to be very good (similar to the '91-94 190) which has a flat wake but some spray at shorter line lengths.

The '98-00 Prostar 190 is the boat to avoid. Its been called the Deathstar and has been said to have been a step backwards from the previous hull. It handled poorly and had a bigger wake. MC came out with fixes (adding strakes, redesigning the rudder, etc) to address the problems. The 91-94 and 95-97 190's, on the other hand, ski beautifully.

Regarding the Ski Nautique (called the 196 starting in '03), the hull has only changed a few times in recent years- once in '90, again in '97 (called the TSC hull) and again in '02 (called the TSC2). The TSC3 was a minor change made in '06, but it only affected the trick wake, not slalom. Each version was a worthy improvement over the one it replaced.

I dont know much about the 89-92 Sport Nautique hull, but I suspect it wasnt much of a slalom boat since it had a moderate V design. The 93-97 Sport had an OK slalom wake, as it was largely modeled after the 90-96 Ski Nautique. It has a very good wakeboarding wake when weighted. The 98-02 Sport/Air (not Pro Air) hull is supposed to be very good for slalom. It is based on the TSC hull and is said to be as good or better than the 90-96 Ski Nautique wake, which is not bad at all.

I cant comment much on the Malibu hulls, as my time behind them has been limited. The '88 Skier I used to ski behind had a terrible (very large) wake, IMHO- but it wasnt well maintained and had a 454, so it was heavy. The '01 Response LX Ive skied has a tiny wake, though noticeably harder than my dad's 196.

[meb885]

What year did the Echelon turn into an EFI? What year could you get a Monsoon motor in these? I saw an Echelon with EFI and a Monsoon motor for sale but don't recall what year is was. How do the monsoon EFI motors compare to the old 5.7 mercruiser in fuel consumption? Is 08 Malibu Response going to come out with a turbo diesel (VW powerplant) or is MC just blowing smoke with a concept motor?

My 94 has a 5.7 Mercruiser 350 Mag but its EFI. so EFI was an option for most of the run on all engines.... im pretty sure it was 96 or 97 they started using Indmar engines..... i could be completely wrong.... I love how my Merc pulls out of the water, honestly i think it pulls just as well as the monsoon 320 in a response.....even tho its less horsepower..... now i could just be spoiled since my 94 only has 160 hours on the original engine so she skis like new.

[Woodski]

Monsoon was available in 96. Fuel consumption is pretty close, we ski behind both types.

My point on the wakes of the MC and the SN's, you should try before you buy. Like I said, there were changes in the hulls, some good, some not so good.

[Malibudude]

Concur on the spray from the mastercraft 205. You simply cant go wrong on the 2000 lxi and up especially shortline! we ski both regularly.

Amen brotha!

[Addictedto6]

The 99 SSlxi up to I think 04 is on the diamond 23 hull and is a outstanding ski boat and not bad with a wedge for intry to mid level boarders. It is not weight sensitive like the smaller boats. I ski with two friends 99 and 03 SSlxi they ski as good as my 07 Rlxi. at short line no spray and great wake.

[Arctic Slalom]

what does the SS in sslxi stand for? I think the sunsetter lxi on the diamond sv23 is the way to go for me. it might be a while before I can afford it, so i'll keep looking and see what I can find in the midwest. I found a 97 sunsetter lx down in texas for 18K on boattraderonline. it only has 259 hours and is in 'mint' shape. however, this boat has the SV23 and not the SV23 diamond hull? however, it does look to be really clean and the 21' hull is just a stretched out echelon or response of the same era, correct? any thoughts on this particular boat (the 97 LX sunsetter vs the 99 LXI sunsetter)?

[Sixball]

SS = Sunsetter LXI 99 to 04 you will love it all your bud's will want to take your boat. It is the best 21.6' out thair for skiing.and not bad for boarding Keep looking thay are had to find most people know what thay have.

[Arctic Slalom]

sixball,

ya, they look really nice. I agree that people know what they have, cuz there is certainly a price difference for the lxi with the diamond hull vs. the older 21' lx on the SV23. I like the storage compartment in the back with the gas shocks, just like all the newer boats. why doesn't malibu offer this boat anymore? is it just because the slalom demand has dropped off? it seems like most of the other inboard companies offer a 21-1/2' boat which is a true inboard which isn't AWSA certified, but still offers a great wake and has family/crossover capabilities. imagine if they offered a current (08) ss lxi with cut-diamond hull and optional hammerhead, wedge and mini-tower, that would be a sweet slalom and family boat.

et al,

One more question. on the 99-03 SSLXI if you look at the transom detail, it appears the boat is using a 20' diamond hull (like the response) but the extra 18" or so is just added over the back (overhanging the hull, under the rear storage compartment). It's kinda different cuz it looks like they used a 21'-6" upper shell (cap) on a 20' diamond hull? Is this correct, or did they make a different hull for the SSLXI?

[Malibudude]

what does the SS in sslxi stand for? I think the sunsetter lxi on the diamond sv23 is the way to go for me. it might be a while before I can afford it, so i'll keep looking and see what I can find in the midwest. I found a 97 sunsetter lx down in texas for 18K on boattraderonline. it only has 259 hours and is in 'mint' shape. however, this boat has the SV23 and not the SV23 diamond hull? however, it does look to be really clean and the 21' hull is just a stretched out echelon or response of the same era, correct? any thoughts on this particular boat (the 97 LX sunsetter vs the 99 LXI sunsetter)?

As I’ve skied both the SLX is a good ski boat just the wakes are a bit more pronounced and harder than that of the SLXI. Accomplished skiers w/ good mechanics could shortline w/ the SLX and do very well. Though the SLXI again will provide a larger boat more storage and a softer wake and slightly smaller imho.

SLX 21’ long and 93” inch beam, 18” draft w/ a 38 gallon fuel capacity

SLXI 21’8” long and 93.5” beam, 18” draft w/ a 35 gallon fuel capacity

sixball,

ya, they look really nice. I agree that people know what they have, cuz there is certainly a price difference for the lxi with the diamond hull vs. the older 21' lx on the SV23. I like the storage compartment in the back with the gas shocks, just like all the newer boats. why doesn't malibu offer this boat anymore? is it just because the slalom demand has dropped off? it seems like most of the other inboard companies offer a 21-1/2' boat which is a true inboard which isn't AWSA certified, but still offers a great wake and has family/crossover capabilities. imagine if they offered a current (08) ss lxi with cut-diamond hull and optional hammerhead, wedge and mini-tower, that would be a sweet slalom and family boat.

et al,

One more question. on the 99-03 SSLXI if you look at the transom detail, it appears the boat is using a 20' diamond hull (like the response) but the extra 18" or so is just added over the back (overhanging the hull, under the rear storage compartment). It's kinda different cuz it looks like they used a 21'-6" upper shell (cap) on a 20' diamond hull? Is this correct, or did they make a different hull for the SSLXI?

The hull on the SSLXI is 21’ of wetted surface and 8” of cantilevered trunk. The Response is a 20’ boat and while it shares the same diamond hull characteristics it’s not the same mold.

[Arctic Slalom]

malibudude,

thanks for the clarification..."21’ of wetted surface and 8” of cantilevered trunk", well said!

CR