*The DIY Surf Gate Thread*

[Launch22]

I can't get your pics to pull up.

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[Launch22]

I found them on the other sight. That wave looks great. Has anyone tried this on a malibu???

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[FastFreddy]

I think I'll be trying out the NSS style instead of SG style. It seems simpler and just as effective.

[FastFreddy]

High Alt.

1. How did you mount the plywood to the swim platform?

2. How do you switch it back and forth from goofy to regular?

Pictures would be great.

[Tao of Wake]

I think I'll be trying out the NSS style instead of SG style. It seems simpler and just as effective.

I'll be working on a NSS style solution on my VLX over the next week. I'll be sure to post pics and info.

[Launch22]

I'll be working on a NSS style solution on my VLX over the next week. I'll be sure to post pics and info.

I'm trying to figure out how to mount it. Having a fiberglass swim platform makes it a little challenging.

[shawndoggy]

Not mine

[High Altitude]

High Alt.

1. How did you mount the plywood to the swim platform?

2. How do you switch it back and forth from goofy to regular?

Pictures would be great.

Hmmm....not sure why you can't see the pics. The pics on page one have most of the answers for you in respect to question 1. With that said...the plywood has two 2x4s that stick out towards the aft of the boat. I then use a 3/8 lag to secure those to the swim deck.

As for switching, I just remove the lags and pull off the plywood (and 2x4s). I then have another one cut for the other side and lag those in. Takes about 3 minutes. I use that three to have the next person get ready and pump some water to the other side.

If you need more photo's PM or post what you need. -Marc

[Andrew63]

shawndoggy

Like the Vid, is this with the Surf gate style or NSS style system?

Do you have any pics of the system on the boat illustrating mounting etc?

[shawndoggy]

shawndoggy

Like the Vid, is this with the Surf gate style or NSS style system?

Do you have any pics of the system on the boat illustrating mounting etc?

It's SG style. Thread here. http://www.mbboatowners.com/index.php/topic/1606-2013-modifications-are-done/page-2#entry16569

I'm hoping he figures out how to clean up the goofy side. The regular side is ridiculous. If he gets goofy dialed I'll be installing for next season, methinks.

[Launch22]

Well I tried my version of the NSS on my BU this weekend. It didn't workout so well. At a very slow speed 8-10 mph the wave was very tall but a very short pocket. After putting down the wedge, adding weight, and moving the speed up to 11-12 mph the water wanted to shoot up and over the plate. I think the angel on the back of my hull is going to make it hard to dial this one in. I think I'll scrap this idea and start working on a gate.

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[ajinid]

I had the same results. I fabricated an NSS style extending out 1 inch. Could never get a very good wave developed, even with the wedge down and about 1500lbs of ballast (tried 60/40 and 70/30 to the surf side). Gained a little more length, but very little push. The wave was pretty washed out and difficult to ride very far ropeless. I think the wave was better sacking out. It seemed like the wave was not diverted enough? Maybe I need to extend the NSS gate out more? (Its a little confusing since TrickyNicky kept reducing his gate size).

TrickyNicky: You mentioned the wave was worse off when you had the gate extended out further. What was the initial wave like? Was it causing the surf side to overpower the diverted side too much?

[TrickyNicky]

I had the same results. I fabricated an NSS style extending out 1 inch. Could never get a very good wave developed, even with the wedge down and about 1500lbs of ballast (tried 60/40 and 70/30 to the surf side). Gained a little more length, but very little push. The wave was pretty washed out and difficult to ride very far ropeless. I think the wave was better sacking out. It seemed like the wave was not diverted enough? Maybe I need to extend the NSS gate out more? (Its a little confusing since TrickyNicky kept reducing his gate size).

TrickyNicky: You mentioned the wave was worse off when you had the gate extended out further. What was the initial wave like? Was it causing the surf side to overpower the diverted side too much?

My reasoning for shortening the gates was NOT due to the active gate. It was my stowed gate that was interrupting the surf wave. By shortening the gate/s, the closed gate interfered less (although still some) with the waterflow coming off the surfside of the boat and into the surf wave. I also have a surfgate system not an NSS system.

[rugger]

I had the same results. I fabricated an NSS style extending out 1 inch. Could never get a very good wave developed, even with the wedge down and about 1500lbs of ballast (tried 60/40 and 70/30 to the surf side). Gained a little more length, but very little push. The wave was pretty washed out and difficult to ride very far ropeless. I think the wave was better sacking out. It seemed like the wave was not diverted enough? Maybe I need to extend the NSS gate out more? (Its a little confusing since TrickyNicky kept reducing his gate size).

TrickyNicky: You mentioned the wave was worse off when you had the gate extended out further. What was the initial wave like? Was it causing the surf side to overpower the diverted side too much?

Time will tell, but I really think Surf Gate will outperform the NSS style at surf speeds when you compare apples to apples (hulls to hulls). I just can't see how the intercept concept would work as well at slow speeds. This is not a shot at NSS, which is a cleaner setup. The G23 waves look phenominal -- but that thing is a huge, monster wake maker period. I'd love to see someone compare SG and NSS on the same hull. Maybe I'm wrong.

Also -- someone needs to try trim tabs with SG. Might be a great way to dial in/clean up the wake with different ballast and crews on the boat. A slight list with SG is usually better than flat, but throwing weight on the seats takes space and loses the convenience factor anyway.

Perhaps the intercept (like the Volvo QLs?) would work for doing this, otherwise I think the surf tabs would work together with SG. Somone will try it.... just hope they post results.

[TrickyNicky]

Okay folks, back from the dead. So my SG is officially complete and yet you're all going to hate me. I installed lenco 102 actuators and beautifully dash integrated lenco rocker switches . I used the same HD SS hinges that MA had used. I than proceeded with 2x10 for the gate. This was flush with the platform and I found too much water was going over. I than substituted for 3/4" plywood running about 6" above my swim platform. This created a full "vertical-angle-vertical" jog in the gate to align with the transom similar to the MXZ's. Combination of this shape and my lack of carpentry skills created an exaggerated spray gate. I also found that the closed gate would drag too much in the water and create a "step/mini-trough" in the surf wave. So I trimmed up the trailing edge of the SG to lift the closed gate out of the water a bit. All of this happened in the spring over countless weekends and after a while I just had to put it on hold and enjoy the weather.

I spent the summer surfing listed with only the non surf-side gate on. We would use the gate from time to time to clean up the non-surfside water splashing over, resulting in a cleaner looking wave. Over time I began to learn that the more deployed the gate was when listing, the softer the front of the wave was and the less push there was further back in the wave. As a result we surfed listed with surfgate closed (or ~2-3" open) most of the summer. This is just an observation of a listed wave where the SG blocked the non-surfside water from wrapping around the transom and creating a high pressure ridge at the front of the wave.

Finally it came time to wrap up the season (albeit early) because I have some busy weeks-years ahead. I couldn't let this project of mine (and investment of my fathers) go unfinished. So I employed a new ski friend to help measure-cut the final plastic plates to follow the contour of the hull. I ditched the 6" extension above the platform and went with about 3" which leaves my gate the same height up the transom as an official one. Therefore it has a "vertical-to-angle" transition but not back to vertical. The hinges were mounted vertical so the gates would rotate horizontally instead of digging into the water when extended and raising when stowed. As a result we made wedge shims out of HDPE so the plate would share the same angle from vertical as the side of the hull. The gates themselves are made out of 1" UHMW. I believe 3/4" would have been fine, I ordered 1/4" originally and it was WAY too flimsy, so I went overboard on the 1".

Here are some pictures of the gates:

So why did I start this post with a sentence that you guys are going to hate me? Because I don't have any surf pics and you aren't going to get any, at least not in the next year or so. The gates were installed on a rainy morning. I took the boat out and with no ballast at surf speed I was receiving better results than with my previous gates with the same setup. Mainly I was having trouble creating anything but full-blown turbulent wash with 2 wood gates and FAE at surf speed. I wouldn't get the appropriate v-shape wake until 13 mph. With this setup I was able to create a clean but obviously very small wave at 10 mph with no ballast. I had a very busy weekend winterizing/cleaning the boat and removing the docks and lift. As a result I didn't surf it, nor set it up appropriately so I have no pics. I had to winterize early this year because I'm moving out west in 2 weeks (to the day ) without the bu ( ) and as a result you may not see any pictures of this surf wave for a very long time.

Here are previously posted pictures of the original 2x10 gates wave (I believe setup is full MLS including bow, about 300 lbs in each rear locker, manual wedge, no recollection of speed ~10mph, I may have a more accurate post previously in this thread):

My verdict:

My friends and I are committed to our watersports. From our experience thus far, and the reasoning for our summer preference, is that if were going to surf, we'll list the boat. One 750 sac in the back and one 370 tube sac in the bow with 4 people on the surf side makes an AWESOME wake on the VTX at about 11 mph. It's an awesome wave, relatively firm at the front and very long. Seriously I had a riot this year riding that wave! On the other hand, this is a family boat and seeing as I will be away next summer there will be less committed people to drive/setup the boat for 8 hrs a day every weekend. As a result I think my family will enjoy SG. They will load 8 people in the boat, open the surfgate and have fun. Because they won't have back-to-back surfs with this years listed wave they will find the wave sufficient. If they need too they can add a 750 sac to each rear locker and the 370 tube sac to the bow. Granted manually filling sacs in BOTH rear lockers is a royal PITA. You need to remove every life jacket in the boat! So that's my verdict on the future surf uses of my bu as well as the practicality and benefits of SG vs my traditional surf setup.

If your looking at this post and asking yourself if you should do this, I'll try and sum it up like this:

If your picky about your wave and you are constantly shifting weight and people and speed on a case by case basis to make the optimal wave than don't do it. You will not be satisfied enough for the effort it will require.

If you just fill the same ballast every time and let people sit where they want because really you just want to surf and have fun than this will probably be beneficial to you. I won't say anything in this project was "hard" but it was very time consuming and expect a lot of trial and error on gate sizes. Also I recommend trying a manual and removable setup first. But certainly don't be afraid of a project like this.

Edited September 23, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[martinarcher]

Looks good man. That gate wedge block looks familiar. I'm shocked you weren't happy with the gate deployed with the listing boat. On my hull there is no comparison. After being on the gate wave there is simply no going back. I believe your the first one I have seen with a gate on a diamond. Great info.

One thing to think about....

On my boat, if I were to only retract the non-surf side gate as far as you did (where it touches your platform) it would still have water coming off the hull touching the face of the gate. I messed with it this way and it absolutely kills the wave on our boat if the face of the gate has water on it. If my platform was not cut to allow the gates to fully tuck in out of the water there is no way I would be as happy with my gates as I am. I know with my non-surf side gate retracted, there is no water contacting the face of the gate. Just something to think about. It might be interesting to pull the platform and mess with the gates retracted a bit further and see if the results change.

[MalibuTime]

Great write up T-N.

[TrickyNicky]

Looks good man. That gate wedge block looks familiar. I'm shocked you weren't happy with the gate deployed with the listing boat. On my hull there is no comparison. After being on the gate wave there is simply no going back. I believe your the first one I have seen with a gate on a diamond. Great info.

One thing to think about....

On my boat, if I were to only retract the non-surf side gate as far as you did (where it touches your platform) it would still have water coming off the hull touching the face of the gate. I messed with it this way and it absolutely kills the wave on our boat if the face of the gate has water on it. If my platform was not cut to allow the gates to fully tuck in out of the water there is no way I would be as happy with my gates as I am. I know with my non-surf side gate retracted, there is no water contacting the face of the gate. Just something to think about. It might be interesting to pull the platform and mess with the gates retracted a bit further and see if the results change.

I wasn't happy with a listed boat with the gate extended. It just tamed the wave. Made the rooster very flat and soft and for reasons I can't explain it took all the push out of the back end of the wave. Ie riders kept loosing the wave when they were in a regular section of the pocket, I attributed it to there riding and than had to take my foot out my mouth when I tried. After bringing the gate back in the rear of the pocket would provide more push and the front of the wave firmed up more although looked less clean.

Now, aside from that the level SG wave I did enjoy, just not as much as my listed wave. It had the same properties as adding SG did to the listed wave but not nearly as drastic. At the end of the day I just preferred the listed wave. Preference based on the wave characteristics, manually filling 1 bag in the locker and 1 bag in the bow is easier than filling two rear lockers and potentially another in the bow and finally (and this should be noted as VERY important), I have 6+ years of listing boat experience and have probably put in a solid 1 week of SG weighting. It will be interesting to see how the fam uses it next year.

As for the water touching the closed SG, I completely understand what you are talking about. This is what resulted in the "trough/step" in the wave with the wood gate. There is still some of that evident although it seems to be much less. This is why I trimmed up the trailing end of the gate. As for getting the gate completely out of the waters path, not a chance. Maybe it's just a hull difference, but at surf speeds I have my water flowing over 1/4 of my rear swimstep so having the gate to the side and lower in the water it is a complete impossibility to have it out of the waters path. My original hope was to have them retract underneath the platform but that would only allow me to have an 8" tall gate which I did not feel would be sufficient. I would actually be curious to see how the gates work with a slight list to the non-surfside as this creates a small air pocket around the corner of the transom (all you listers look at the non-surfside corner next time your surfing), which may route the water far enough around the gate. The logical modification for anyone thinking of doing this would be to raise your platform by 4-6" and than have the gates tuck underneath. This could easily be done by removing the platform from the support brackets and than re-installing with a 4-6" spacer. Therefore not requiring any modification the hull or mounting points themselves.

And yes that wedge idea, came to me in a dream

EDIT: I'll also add the water hitting the closed gate is why I ran just one gate for most of the summer. It was an improvement over the original wood one and even these ones. But the plastic ones are a large improvement in that regard over the wood, although not as clean as the single gate setup. Yet another reason to start with a removable manual setup.

Edited September 23, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[Extremecdx]

So anyone know if i should get the 102 xd.. secondly i just mounted a plate and wanted to post the picture on here to get feedback but im not seeing how to post pictures besides a link.

[martinarcher]

I am running standard 102's.  You could use either the XD's or the standard actuators.  

Supporting members can attach pics directly to a post.  If you aren't a supporting member you can upload them to a hosting site (photobucket, etc) and then link to the pictures.