*The DIY Surf Gate Thread*

[TrickyNicky]

on my '08 vlx, when i install an automatic system, will i need to have my swim platform modified to accept the retracted gate?

It really depends on how tall you want the gate and where your brackets are. On my 07 I have 10" of transom below the swim platform where I could hide the gate. I'll probably make my gates so they are shorter further from the transom to prevent interruption of the wake when stowed. I am guessing your 08 VLX will be very similar. If you would like a taller gate (~12") than you need to butt up to the platform and I just think the width difference between our platform and transom doesn't allow for a clan stowed gate setup.

[martinarcher]

I guess I'm using the term step wrong...

No, you're step just runs down the side of the hull instead of across to transom.

[Intense]

I guess I'm using the term step wrong...

Nate, if you want to swing down my way and see what I've done and how it works, just let me know. My set-up works really well. I'm quite pleased we were able to replicate similar results on a older Bu.

[Intense]

Pic of SwingSurf -

These pics are from our test 'paddles'. I've gone to different hardware for the final version.

[martinarcher]

Looks great!! We need some wake pics!

[Intense]

You'll get some soon, I promise. Had some early season issues pop up over the weekend.

[TrickyNicky]

Looks real clean Intense. You have very similar parameters as me with your swim platform so this really helps me put things into perspective. Regarding the gap between the platform and gate when stowed. Does this pose any concerns for you? I've been wondering about people swimming back there and pulling on the gates or somehow accidentally stepping on them. It's the source of my debate between going with a shorter gate and stowing it under the platform or a taller gate and doing exactly as you did. Did you try out a shorter gate at any point? Do you have an spray issues? It seems that to avoid the spray, most people think the water should flow over the gate a bit??? Also do you get any interference from the stowed gate when surfing (or any other sport) or is it tucked nicely away out of the flow of water?

The reason I ask all these questions is because once I mount my actuators I do not have the freedom to change both my stowed angle and extended angle. And specifically my stowed angle would be drastically different if I choose to go under the swim platform.

[Chia]

Intense.

the Lenco's look bolted and the hinges look screwed.....is this correct?

thanks

[TrickyNicky]

What's the verdict from you guys regarding securing through the transom. Through bolting with a backing plate or pilot holes and than screwed into the fiberglass?

[Intense]

Tricky, I do have some concerns about the gap between the gate and the swim platform. My roommate and I were talking about this. I might make some sort of triangular shaped piece that bolts to the top of the gate to prevent people from grabbing it. As you can see from the side, the gate sits just below the platform when retracted, so I'm not really worried about people stepping on it.

I did test a shorter version of the gate, the wave didn't change all that much. I think I settled on this length due to aesthetics and strength of the gate relative to the placement of the actuator mount.

Cervelo, correct. The actuators are bolted through and the hinges are screwed in. Why? The location of the hinges are such that some of the screws come through the transom below the floor. Since I can't pull my floor up (that I know of), I wasn't going to be able to put a nut on if I had used bolts. Both the actuator mounts and hinges are also secured with 3M 5200. I highly doubt I'll have a problem.

[Intense]

Darn tapatalk doesn't show the original message in a reply.

Anyways, when the boat is weighted, the gates are fully submerged. Water definitely flows over the top of the gates. How much does this affect the wave quality? Hard to say, but I'm guessing not much.

Do the retracted gates affect wakeboarding wake and steering? The gates are always in the water, so I suppose they do/will. How much, I don't know yet. I haven't taken a wakeboarding set this year, yet. Steering, couldn't tell a difference vs. when I didn't have the gates. I will say the ability to evenly weight the boat for surfing greatly improves the steerability when getting dropped riders. That, in itself, is worth it!

As for the question about using backing plates on the inside of the transom. I don't think they're necessary. I'm no hydrodynamasist, but it seems the highest load would be at the end of the gates. Due to the location of the actuator mount, I would expect there is a pitching moment at the mount. Causing a slight push of the actuator against the transom. In other words, pushing into the transom, as opposed to pulling away. I suppose there is some lateral force created water pressure on the gate itself. But that's more of a sheering force on the screws holding the hinges in place...I think. In that case, the liberal application of the 3M 5200 would be critical. I really want to get into a discussion about load along axis', but I'll spare you guys the boredom.

I wish I had access to Abacus or some other FEA tool. All of these loading and stress questions could be easily answered. In lieu of that, I just over-engineered the crap out of the system, I hope.

[rugger]

*** Has anyone else played more with gate height? I'm tweaking my system from last summer (Lencos now) and thought about trying a taller gate. Last summer I briefly tried it but didn't have much time to really test it. Anyone? I suspect I'll use the same gates/height but would love to hear more.

Intense -- I think you're right about the mounts. The footprint of the hinge is enough and there's not too much pressure at that point. Plus -- if you don't have access to the back anyway then problem solved!

We did think there was a difference with moving the shape/angle of the stowed gate last summer. It also seems like of the best results of DIY SG have been with just one gate, where the opposite side had no flow change at all. I think cutting the bottom edge (taper) to angle up towards the back seemed to helped for sure. The OEM gates are like that. Looks like from the picture that Intense did that as well.

[TrickyNicky]

Tricky, I do have some concerns about the gap between the gate and the swim platform. My roommate and I were talking about this. I might make some sort of triangular shaped piece that bolts to the top of the gate to prevent people from grabbing it. As you can see from the side, the gate sits just below the platform when retracted, so I'm not really worried about people stepping on it.

I did test a shorter version of the gate, the wave didn't change all that much. I think I settled on this length due to aesthetics and strength of the gate relative to the placement of the actuator mount.

Cervelo, correct. The actuators are bolted through and the hinges are screwed in. Why? The location of the hinges are such that some of the screws come through the transom below the floor. Since I can't pull my floor up (that I know of), I wasn't going to be able to put a nut on if I had used bolts. Both the actuator mounts and hinges are also secured with 3M 5200. I highly doubt I'll have a problem.

Thanks Intense,

So much good info. When you say the wave didn't change that much, would you have been happy with the shorter gates?

I was also wondering about how to lift the floor if I went with through bolts. Are your actuators able to be through bolted because they are above the floor or because they are far enough to the centre that they lie within the engine bay area?

Finally where did you get the hinges, I've been flipping through pages of SS hinges and marine specific hinges but ordering through an american website is going to kill me cost wise.

[TrickyNicky]

I guess I'm using the term step wrong...

Hey Nate,

Have you considered making a gate to the top of that "step"?

[Ndawg12]

Hey Nate,

Have you considered making a gate to the top of that "step"?

My latest gate was way too big, steering left was nearly impossible and felt like I was abusing the steering system. My next approach is modify my mount and devise an NSS style system.

[martinarcher]

My latest gate was way too big, steering left was nearly impossible and felt like I was abusing the steering system. My next approach is modify my mount and devise an NSS style system.

Just an FYI, my final gate designed is almost impossible to steer against, which IMO is good since it is moving some serious water. If you can fold the gate back in, your steering will be as if the gate's aren't there at all.

[Intense]

*** Has anyone else played more with gate height? I'm tweaking my system from last summer (Lencos now) and thought about trying a taller gate. Last summer I briefly tried it but didn't have much time to really test it. Anyone? I suspect I'll use the same gates/height but would love to hear more.

Intense -- I think you're right about the mounts. The footprint of the hinge is enough and there's not too much pressure at that point. Plus -- if you don't have access to the back anyway then problem solved!

We did think there was a difference with moving the shape/angle of the stowed gate last summer. It also seems like of the best results of DIY SG have been with just one gate, where the opposite side had no flow change at all. I think cutting the bottom edge (taper) to angle up towards the back seemed to helped for sure. The OEM gates are like that. Looks like from the picture that Intense did that as well.

I think I mis-understood height for length. I've tried a couple different lengths to see how they affected wave shape, size, and length. As far as height, I've not tried different sizes. For me, the overall height was determined by the top of the swim platform and the bottom of the hull. I would think extending the height above the edge of the swim platform would introduce all kinds of issues with people stepping on or tripping over it. Fortunately, the Malibu swim platforms are above the water when not loaded down.

Thanks Intense,

So much good info. When you say the wave didn't change that much, would you have been happy with the shorter gates?

I was also wondering about how to lift the floor if I went with through bolts. Are your actuators able to be through bolted because they are above the floor or because they are far enough to the centre that they lie within the engine bay area?

Finally where did you get the hinges, I've been flipping through pages of SS hinges and marine specific hinges but ordering through an american website is going to kill me cost wise.

I think what you're asking is; if you made the gate shorter, could you store the gate under the swim platform? I would think that's undesirable for two reasons,

1) Assuming you mount the entire gate under the swim platform, it would put the gate inboard of the side of the boat. Which would kinda defeat the purpose of the gate. Which is to extend the side of the boat and facilitate delayed convergence of the wave.

2) The gate would be so short that it's effectiveness would be reduced.

I'll get you the name/model of the hinges I bought. These are the same ones that MartinArcher used for TeakGate.

[TrickyNicky]

Intense,

If I went with a shorter gate I would have the hinge mounted in the same spot as yours but when stowed I can tuck it to almost 45 degrees in and under the platform. So the only exposed part of the gate would be a 3" triangle (edges being transom, gate, platform). When deployed they could be set to the same angle as yours and potentially be up to 2 ft long. The only restriction I add in is the height of the gate. Which is why I keep pestering you with questions . Another thing that aids me with this setup, is I plan on mounting my hinges completely vertical and than adding in a wedge block block between the gate and hinge ( I think teakgate has this) to get the desired transom angle when deployed. This way when my gates retract they will not come "up" at all, but swing completely horizontal. Finally by having such a tight storage angle by going under the swim platform I can make my gates full depth of the transom (height from bottom of platform to bottom of hull) because they will not stick very far out when stowed compared to gates running (roughly) parallel to the sides of the platform.

What was your results with different gate lengths? Also when you said you played with height, how short did you go? I estimate mine to be max 10" in height if I go under the platform. I really don't want to give much in terms of quality of wave but I love the idea of having my gates completely hidden.

Thanks ahead of time for the hinge info.

[Chia]

Which Lenco's should i be buying?

102 Series

4.25" Stroke Standard Actuators With Hardware

15059-001

102-2

5/16"

5/16"

4 1/4" Stroke Actuator W/ 6' Wire

or

102 XD Series

4.25" Stroke Extreme Duty Actuators With Hardware

15060-001

102 XD-2

5/16"

5/16"

4 1/4" Stroke XD Actuator W/ 6' Wire

or a different one altogether?

thanks

[TrickyNicky]

I went with the 102 and I believe Matt did too with teak gate.

Edited April 17, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[Chia]

I went with the 102 and I believe Matt did too with teak gate.

did you order them from the USA, they appear to be half price down there ($350 here, $180 there)?

[TrickyNicky]

I did but by the time they got up here they were...well too much. I would see if a crew will take delivery and ship them to you. Between the shipping, tax, and "border officer" fees that UPS charged me I was less than pleased.

EDIT: Where are you located Cervelo?

Edited April 17, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[Chia]

I did but by the time they got up here they were...well too much. I would see if a crew will take delivery and ship them to you. Between the shipping, tax, and "border officer" fees that UPS charged me I was less than pleased.

EDIT: Where are you located Cervelo?

I have had similar experience with UPS, never again. I am in Edmonton.....snow is almost all gone.

[Chia]

Jamestown distributors has a video on how to install trim tabs, at the 2:59 minute mark the installer is screwing the actuator to the boat, not bolting it to the boat. Has anyone used screws instead of bolts to mount the actuator?

[Intense]

Which Lenco's should i be buying?

102 Series

4.25" Stroke Standard Actuators With Hardware

15059-001

102-2

5/16"

5/16"

4 1/4" Stroke Actuator W/ 6' Wire

or

102 XD Series

4.25" Stroke Extreme Duty Actuators With Hardware

15060-001

102 XD-2

5/16"

5/16"

4 1/4" Stroke XD Actuator W/ 6' Wire

or a different one altogether?

thanks

I used the 102s in my system. The XD version are supposed to be the heavy duty ones. Mine have been working just fine.

Jamestown distributors has a video on how to install trim tabs, at the 2:59 minute mark the installer is screwing the actuator to the boat, not bolting it to the boat. Has anyone used screws instead of bolts to mount the actuator?

I suppose using screws wouldn't be too different that using bolts. The bearing load on the screw/bolt head should be pretty much the same. Again, I'd say a liberal amount of 3M 5200 should really ensure a quality connection.

edit- when you order the Lenco's, order the mounts too. The actuators didn't come with them. Mine didn't, at least.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Intense