Poorman's Gate

[saidainc]

Make it bigger (think refrigerator or bank vault door sized), have a camera handy and then we'll talk $

[rugger]

I can help answer a few of these. I've been using manual surf gates (opens and closes) on my 03 23 LSV for a little while now. It is a game changer because of the convenience. Hope Malibu sells a ton of boats.

On my 03 the steering is stiffer, but it's still MUCH better than turning around a heavy listed/leaning boat. This made my wife happy for sure. And because it's evenly weighted, the boat doesn't sway as much in the big rollers. I have to manually open and close, so we just leave one side open until we switch riders. Yes, power retraction would be better but not absolutely necessary, except for switching wake to wake while surfing.

Nyryan2001 is right too, the water is directed out. My gates are underwater while under way. But weight changes still affect the wake with SG deployed. With equal weight, it feels like a "second" sweet spot farther back in the wave compared to the leaned version setup I've used. But when we shifted people around the wake changed for sure. I still ended up telling people where to sit for the optimum wave.

The last time we went out it was choppy and the SG wake was not as good -- but that would be true of the old ways too and I would expect that. Lots of variables. I can't comment on a fully listed boat with surf gate, because I have no reason to even try it. My boat will never see bags sitting on top of seats again. That defeats the purpose for me.

MA -- I love seeing that Setter throwing a wake like that! Looking forward to your eventual power/integration with your GPS control system. That's awesome you have that system already. I'll be calling you for sure for coding help if I switch to an automated system some day.

[OStateVLX]

Lets see some pictures of yours rugger?

[rugger]

I will post them. I'm not home right now. Just wanted to add to MA's experience based on what I've found so far for anyone starring at their transom with cardboard cutouts. IMO the convenience is worth the effort, or upgrading if you're in that market.

My install is a bit different than most anyway because I have a funky step/shelf in my transom (older 23 diamond).

Can't wait to see MA's finals, he's got some pretty slick ideas. We talked the other day.

[khelfrich]

instead of speed would it be easier to use the controls that are used on the hse and base it on engine rpm

Ken

[ajinid]

For those who have rigged a home-made version, what angle did you fixed your gate at compared to the hull/transom? I made one with the angle just slightly more obtuse than the outside wall of the hull and I got major spray over onto the face of the surf wake. I did get a little better push and much better length, but the spray was ridiculous. Mine is on a hinge and is tucked away enough that when closed, there is no effect on my great slalom wake. (Mine is attached to the underside of my teak swim deck and looks very similar to this one:

)

AJ

[martinarcher]

AJ,

Are you referring to the first pic shown in the video, aka what angle is the gate leaving the side of the boat? Mine comes off the side of the hull at 24 degrees right now. Also, keep in mind - that guys set-up is a bit deceiving on where the top of the gate really is since he has three 2X4's raising his platform up. I checked out that video pretty closely before building mine. I would guess at rest, the top of his gates are right at the water's surface. The top of my gate is much higher, but I'm convinced they don't need to be.

[martinarcher]

instead of speed would it be easier to use the controls that are used on the hse and base it on engine rpm

Ken

You certainly could, but I want these safely stowed when I'm at wakeboard or ski speeds. My target deployment speed will be about what Malibu's is. I'm thinking 6-13mph would be good.

[martinarcher]

Make it bigger (think refrigerator or bank vault door sized), have a camera handy and then we'll talk $

Let's do it on your boat - I'd love to see the wave!

[newbie1000]

Rugger thanks for the insight. I have virtually the same boat so would be VERY interested in seeing your gate setup. Thx

[ajinid]

Martinarchrer,

I was actually referring to the angle of the gate relative to the outside wall of the hull as viewed from sitting behind the boat. (You are referring to the angle of the gate as view from above while standing on swim deck ) when viewing the gate from behind the boat, When my gate is deployed, the gate is not parallel to the hull, the top of the gate is angled out steeper toward the outside of the hull. I'll try moving in next time out to see if the spray goes away. -AJ

[martinarcher]

These angles in words are hard to picture, but I think I know what you mean. I cut the "hinge" side of my gate to match the transom angle of my boat so that the top and bottom surfaces of the gate are parallel with the top and bottom edges of the boat's side.

[NorCaliBu]

Time to read up on surfgate. The gate isn't lifting the boat much if any. While under way with the boat evenly weighted there is very little if any list to the boat. It is delaying the convergence of the wakes that makes it work. By extending the one side of the boat, the water coming off the other side can rush back toward the center of the boat and create the wave as it meets the other wake father from the boat. That make sense?

Ya, it does. Thanks for the explanation, and thanks for NOT being an A-hole about it. I am obviously no hydrodynamics engineer. Good luck with your tinkering.

[Levi900RR]

I can't wait to see Ruggers

[nyryan2001]

Rugger / Martin-

Malibu still has work to do in working on the shape of the gate. Currently the surfgate as is is limited by how far you sac out the back of the boat. right about the point you have stock ballast +500-750's or so in the trunks, the gates are so far under water that the water comes over the gate and its a much diminished wave. we havent seen what full stock ballast +1100s + a boat load of folks will do. It"ll be insane.

IMO, the gate need to be another 4+ inches higher when deployed, so we can start to see the true potential of what the delayed convergence can do.

While a starigh piano style hinge being taller like that would be awkward when not being used... ie gates sticking 4"+ above the swim platform on the sides..... perhaps there could be a way to angle it some where when retracted, its even with the swim platform.... and when deployed the 12" or so out from the platform, its 6" higher than the swim platform. gotta put some thought into that

that additional 4-6" will have a huge impact in what folks are able to create

[shawndoggy]

for proof of concept maybe somebody could stick on some big pieces of plexy to a surfgate boat with vhb tape or something like that?

[martinarcher]

Rugger / Martin-

Malibu still has work to do in working on the shape of the gate. Currently the surfgate as is is limited by how far you sac out the back of the boat. right about the point you have stock ballast +500-750's or so in the trunks, the gates are so far under water that the water comes over the gate and its a much diminished wave. we havent seen what full stock ballast +1100s + a boat load of folks will do. It"ll be insane.

IMO, the gate need to be another 4+ inches higher when deployed, so we can start to see the true potential of what the delayed convergence can do.

While a starigh piano style hinge being taller like that would be awkward when not being used... ie gates sticking 4"+ above the swim platform on the sides..... perhaps there could be a way to angle it some where when retracted, its even with the swim platform.... and when deployed the 12" or so out from the platform, its 6" higher than the swim platform. gotta put some thought into that

that additional 4-6" will have a huge impact in what folks are able to create

I was thinking the exact same thing when building my gate which is why I made it so darn tall (a good 5 inches above my platform). When stowed I want it to tuck up almost flush to the platform. Makes me wonder if I could add a second hinged gate that stows behind the main gate with another actuator to deploy it and swing it into place. Of course it would be easier to make one somewhere in the middle and deal with the extra height when stowed and the lack of height when deployed, but we all want our cake and want to eat it too!

[Fab]

Hi guys... I've been following your stuffs with a BIG interest...I'm currently doing some prototypes on my boat but it's not a Bu, it's a 08 MC X2 !! My current surf tabs is smaller than the one malbu designed but it does some serious improvement on my wake too !!

you'r damn right about sacking the boat and therefore putting the gate under the water, I have the same problem on my design, but If you add some weight to the surf side then non surf side is ifted up and so is the gate...Still this doesn't have much if we have to weight the boat like old style surfing...

Weather has been s***ty here so nopics or vid but hopefully i could get some soon...

keep up the good jobs!

[martinarcher]

Nice. Glad to hear someone else is messing with gates. Its fun to mess with! Be sure to post up some pics of your set-up. I know I'd love to see it!

[kayakwv]

This winter "project season" and during the next 6 months should be veryh interesting to see what all the DIY minds come up with. Great to hear how these manual designs are working well. My boat has a manual wedge, so why not a manual Surf Gate as well. I know if Malibu offered a manual retro kit, that I'd be on the wait list right now.

With ballast systems, the DIY modifications are done over top of the stock systems on nearly all the boats. So maybe the DIY Surf Gate system mods will prove to be just as good or even superior to the stock systems. Should be interesting to see what comes out.

[msuwaterski]

I have a feeling that TMC admins are going to have to start a new discussions folder under the forums tab for all of the surf gate DIY threads that are going to be popping up.

[pkh]

I wonder how long it is before people start modding even the factory surf gate.

Its just screwed on there, unscrew and slap a bigger gate on there.

[wakebrdr94]

I don't think malibu will make that adjustment for the extra weight. I think the concept is to work as it is, no extra weight other than factory. The majority of people are not going to sac out their boats and have bags every where. They may make changes to the angles, but you won't see a gate sticking 4" out of the water to account for weighting the surf wake. It would also make Malibu more liable for if some Moron tries to weight the boat improperly, he can make a claim saying that the boat is designed for it. Even now you can be ticketed if the cops wanted to for overloading a boat. The capacity limits are # of people, OR weight. Do we go above and beyond that limit? Yes, but Malibu isn't going to put themselves at risk for making a design, then in a way, telling you to overload your boat. They were talking about safety, weighting evenly and still producing a surf able wake, and safer driving.

Edited August 28, 2012 by wakebrdr94

[teamerickson]

I don't think malibu will make that adjustment for the extra weight. I think the concept is to work as it is, no extra weight other than factory. The majority of people are not going to sac out their boats and have bags every where. They may make changes to the angles, but you won't see a gate sticking 4" out of the water to account for weighting the surf wake. It would also make Malibu more liable for if some Moron tries to weight the boat improperly, he can make a claim saying that the boat is designed for it. Even now you can be ticketed if the cops wanted to for overloading a boat. The capacity limits are # of people, OR weight. Do we go above and beyond that limit? Yes, but Malibu isn't going to put themselves at risk for making a design, then in a way, telling you to overload your boat. They were talking about safety, weighting evenly and still producing a surf able wake, and safer driving.

+1

[skurfer]

Another surfgate project. So much for it just can't be done on any other boat. Have to buy a new Malibu....

http://www.mastercraft.com/teamtalk/showthread.php?t=50562