Upgraded to Stargazer Perfect Pass and it Doesn't Hold Speed

[formulaben]

I doubt this is your issue, but pointing it out in case someone else searches for a speed issue on Stargazer.  I typically go up a canyon at our home lake and when I get to certain areas where we are somewhat close to the canyon walls (due to traffic) I can get a momentary loss of signal on the GPS, resulting in a fairly heavy swing in speed while it hunts for a signal lock.

[RedWakesetterVLX]

Did you get this figured out?  

[justgary]

I just use RPM mode for general skiing and cruising.  It's simple and works like a champ. 

[ProtoType210]

Have to reup this post.

Have read the hole post and have exactly the same Problem on my boat I bought this year.

Have you find a solution to fix the Problem? Have contacted  perfect pass already but they didn´t find the problem. Have the stargzer GPS Modul and retrofit a paddlewheel. Both have the same Problem.

[Woodski]

@ProtoType210- new boat, used boat purchase?  New system or existing system on a used boat?  Do you have the latest software, PP improved the speed holding with the latest software.  The GPS puck and its location / orientation are important.  How are you using the system, skiing / boarding?  The setup parameters also make a difference on how the system responds, lots of threads on best parameter settings to optimize the operation.  Also, good supply voltage and strong throttle return spring are important.  PP also has several video's on troubleshooting the system.

[justgary]

6 hours ago, ProtoType210 said:

Have to reup this post.

Have read the hole post and have exactly the same Problem on my boat I bought this year.

Have you find a solution to fix the Problem? Have contacted  perfect pass already but they didn´t find the problem. Have the stargzer GPS Modul and retrofit a paddlewheel. Both have the same Problem.

The exact same problem... when I read the original complaint, I see two separate problems.

1- Too long to control speed after capture.  This is operator error.  The servo in PP is not all that fast, so don't expect it to take you from wide open throttle to your set speed in a flash.  Throw it a bone and meet it in the middle somewhere.  If you absolutely must hammer the throttle down to pull someone up, watch the RPM and pull the throttle back as the boat speed builds.  You will soon learn what RPM you need for the speed you want to go, so your pulls will be consistent and with no overshoot.

2- Speed fluctuation.  This is something that shouldn't happen, so if this is your problem, continue to investigate it.  @Woodski just posted some good information that should help.

As a little background information, PP can only reduce the throttle, not speed it up.  This is a fail safe design, so that it always leaves the maximum speed in the driver's control.  The mechanism pulls against the throttle setting provided by the driver to slow the engine to the control speed.  This is why it will tell you "More Throttle" if you don't give it enough to work with.  That is also why it takes some time to spool in any excess throttle that you give it.  Learn to provide slightly more throttle than it needs, and you will truly enjoy how it works. 

I can generally show a complete newbie how to pull me barefoot by explaining that I want them to roll in throttle until it gets to this place on the upholstery, then watch the RPM and pull the stick back to this spot on the upholstery as it approaches 4200 RPM, then ignore it and drive in a straight line.  They usually need three practice runs to get the roll in part right so they don't drown me or rip my arms out.

[csleaver]

Changing the KDW (adjustable throttle rate) setting can make the servo motor move faster or slower.  It is set at 90 from the factory but setting it lower will give a smoother speed change, especially on lighter boats, and adjusting it higher will make the speed change more aggressive for heavier boats.

On sterndrive boats with a very short throttle throw I usually set the KDW around 40 to 60,  but on a vdrive boat with a long throttle throw and ballast I set it at 100 to 120.

[ProtoType210]

I tested KDW and NN settings for a full day. It got better but still not usable.
I'll try to describe the problem in more detail. When the wakeboarder starts to move out, the boat slows down. Only when the wakeboarder is completely outside and starts to drive in again, does the boat react and accelerate. It accelerates too much or too little, depending on the KDW setting but in both cases much too late. As a wakeboarder, I have the feeling that the system always reacts with a 3-4 second delay. when it has accelerated, it overshoot the set speed. 
The more often the wakeboarder cuts out , the worse the speed fluctuation is.
Without ballast and wakeboarder, the boat keeps its speed perfectly. RPM mode also without problems.

The lower the NN setting, the more precisely the boat reacts, but at some point it becomes too nervous.
The problem is the same with paddlewheel and also with GPS.

PerfectPass (Mark) went through all of the issues with me. Servo test, linkage test, voltage test, everything works great. The throttle spring also works, even if it feels a bit weak. Here I will test again on hang a rubber to increase the spring force.

My guess was the propeller that was wrong for wakeboarding. The original was built in 13.5 x 17.5, now I have ordered a 13.5 x 14.25 in the hope that it will get better.

It is a Stargazer system with software 7.0.64 is installed. According to PerfektPass (Mark), this is the last software version that supports a paddlewheel. The system was already installed in the boat when I bought it, but I dont think it is the original System, because the boat is from 2002.


I retrofitted a hydrophase system in my old boat (Air Nautique). After an hour of adjustment, the system went perfectly and keeps its speed perfectly. That's why I know exactly how to run such a system and that you have to give enough throttle. But I think stargazer should do just as well.

Thanks for any help

 

Edited August 12, 2021 by ProtoType210

[ProtoType210]

Good Morning,

I was testing a lot the last days with the perfect pass.
I have added a new propeller on the boat with a much lower pitch. (13,5 x 14,25) So the boat have got more rpm at wakeboarding and is more aggressive. Speed holding is much better than before. But still not perfect.

So I added a rubberband to the throttle to increase the spring force. This makes a big difference too.
But when I put the NN Setting to 100, the speed fluctuation is still there.
With NN at 55 the boats holds speed good, but the engine is very nervous. 
So I decided to try the GPS speed again with the new rubber and the new prop.
And with GPS, the speed fluctuation is still good (but not as good as with paddle wheel) and the engine runs smooth.
But our river is constantly changing its speed because the water level is constantly changing.
So GPS is no Option for us and I want to have a smooth engine with constant riding with the paddle wheel.

I make a picture of the position from the paddle wheel.
Do you think this position makes any problems? I think there is a good clear flow of water here.
Or do you think the paddle wheel have got a technical problem?
I noticed that the speed with the paddle wheel often jumps up and down for one second and therefore the engine runs very unevenly.

Thanks 
Greetings
Alex

Edited August 18, 2021 by ProtoType210

[Woodski]

Later versions of software improved the (GPS) control of boat speed, from my and several sources and I can only comment on the ski side (32-36 mph / 52-58 kph) and the time it takes to lock in to desired speed.  That also includes better control of over & under shoots on the desired speed.  So as per Mark's comment, your ability to use the latest GPS software with having the ability for the paddle wheel  is not an option.  FYI - GPS  controls via satellite read speed, paddle wheel controls via engine RPM.

As for paddle wheel location, it should be fine although the other side of the hull is preferable as it is probably cleaner with no other water ingestion devices.  Perhaps the pulsing of the water intakes may be affecting the paddlewheel.  More likely, the wheel may not spin as free as it should, or perhaps the wheel is in backwards.  Those would be worth a check, you should have instructions on how to check and service the paddlewheel.  If not, you can find them on the AirMar website.   

[ProtoType210]

Found the problem and now the PP is working perfectly.

Ordered a new paddle wheel and installed it. Again, the same problem was still there.
Then I removed the notch on the paddle wheel that you can twist it. I played around with that a bit.
Now the paddle wheel is turned approx. 15-20 degrees to the left. (Towards the outer edge). The speed now remains very constant, the engine runs quietly and the speed is kept to an accuracy of 0.5 - 1mph

Current settings are
NN 55
KDW 90 (full ballast)

The flow to the paddle wheel is probably only perfect at 15-20 degrees. But everyone has to test this on their own boat if he has the same problem.

The spring from the gas was nevertheless strengthened and also improved the response time of the Perfect Pass.

Regards
Alex