19 T23 vs 19 Makai?

[Fman]

On 9/16/2018 at 1:54 PM, Dfowkes said:

Robert Garcia of Wake9 has a good review of the Moomba Makai with video. Check out his Facebook page under wake9.com user name. 

Also note Robert Garcia is the same guy who for years praised Tige' boats.  They had a falling out and now that Skiers Choice hooks him up he is all Supra and Moomba.  Not there is anything wrong with this but the problem is he will never say anything negative about Supra or Moomba.   Because of this I do not take his reviews too seriously. 

[longlake]

Curious to hear how the Makia performs as well.  We were in a similar situation last year at this time trying to decide between a Max and a T23.  We looked at both and were all but convinced to get the Max based on the fit & finish, options, etc.  Before we pulled the trigger on it I was able to set up a test drive and surf each of them on the same day on the same lake to aid in our decision.  We had full stock ballast & PNP in each boat (w/ the wedge on the T23), with my wife driving and the respective salesman along for each time out.  The Max’s surfing wave was a complete disappointment and wasn’t even good enough for me to entertain buying it after surfing it.  The bow rise with the Max was also so high that my wife at 5’7” had all she could do to see over the front of the bow standing on her toes.  Not that the T23 doesn’t have any bow rise but it wasn’t anywhere close to the Max.  After that test drive the choice for us was obvious, we decided we can live with the fit and finish but we were buying the boat largely to surf and the Max just didn’t work for us.  Now maybe people have figured out how to set up the Max with additional ballast to get a good surf wave out of it but at the time I didn’t want to take that chance and went with what I knew was good with the T23. 

[jwl019]

4 hours ago, longlake said:

After that test drive the choice for us was obvious, we decided we can live with the fit and finish but we were buying the boat largely to surf and the Max just didn’t work for us.

That's what I am hoping for, an obvious choice between the two after test drives. Dealers are in 2 opposite directions, about 3 hrs each way (one 3.5 hrs north and one 3.5-4 hrs SW) so I definitely know I will not be testing them both out on the same day, and most likely it will we a weekend or two apart. 

[agarabaghi]

i think the fit and finish of a 2019 will be much much nicer than previous years. It is def much nicer than my 2017, and the tub hull built is a major improvement in my eyes/ 

[Choiceind]

The Makai having that blunt tip front looks like it will be a bladder buster in choppy waters. The interior does look better in the Moomba, but I like performance and function more than a few misaligned panels.

[agarabaghi]

What gets me, is the interior pics of all the moombas looks great. Until i see them at the boat show. They are extremely uncomfortable and oddly shaped. Vinyl feels like garbage and leaves a lot to be desired. Also whats up with their passenger seat back swinging open?

[semi]

I saw just the opposite. The Moomba interior is ahead of axis IMO. Coming from a guy looking at buying a new boat and mostly likely be a Moomba or Axis, the quality is quite different. The axis i looked at looked like someone jig sawed the storage holes under the seat. Fiberglass string hanging everywhere. The moomba was clean and had the upgraded vinyl. I like the performance of both boats, but there is a fit and finish difference. Anyone who thinks there isn't needs to look at both. 

its my feeling that Axis has let fit and finish slide quite a bit. Also found a windsheild that wouldn't close, it was over an 1/8" off top and bottom on the A series. You don't show that boat to the masses with out taking care of this stuff. Has me worried the boat will not last long before pieces  start falling off. This isn't a bash on axis just an observation. For me, i am not willing to put up with that since all these boats will perform (insert mfg here). What i want is a boat that will last the test of time, water, sun and work. 

[ConnollyCrew]

On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 10:10 PM, jwl019 said:

Thoughts on these 2 boats?

MSRP is only $3k difference with the Makai having more options which helps justify the $3k more and the actual cost is a lot closer between the two.

I am not really interested in the A24 since I am not a pickle fork fan, the Makai is about the closest to a pickle fork I would want.

T23 - 409, flake accent, SP3 with only 1 set of Rev10's, cover, bimini, GPS cruise, surf pipe, PW3, chilax, gatorstep, phone holder, Pnp with auto vent, swivel racks, dual batteries with switch, rear steps on trailer.  Not sure which prop to get, thinking 2277 for surfing and wakeboarding mostly at sealevel?

Not on it - blinged out trailer, docking lights, ski pylon, heater, underwater lights, no pnp bags, cooler, flush kit, transom trailer straps.

 

Makai - 400, most comes standard, 1 pr Rev10's on tower, flake accent, dual batteries with switch, Swell 3.0, surf pipe, gatorstep

 

Both are inventory boats so I am not picking the colors. Both dealers have pretty good reputations too.

 

Obviously a demo in each will be in order before deciding if I can find a new T23 close by.

Has anyone demo'd a new T23? What prop and pnp bag sizes does it need?

Demo both boats and your choice will be clear. T23 is a fantastic boat, surf wake and audio are superior in the new T23, it is not even close. Not to mention the T23 is a more desirable model in the event you want to re-sell. 

[MustGoFast]

My final 2 choices this year came down to axis or moomba, I was originally leaning M but my wife found the interior of the axis more comfortable and I'm loving the boat so it all worked out 

[jb 156]

No real review but did get to go on a tour of the Skiers Choice plant.  They are doing things right over there, the vinyl in the 19 Moomba’s is the 18 Supra vinyl.  The 2 Makia’s I saw were very nice boats with excellent fit and finish.  Demo both good news you have a first world problem of picking between two excellent boats.  I still think surfgate is the best surf technology on the market.  

[jwl019]

Got the Moomba line up of the Craz, Mojo, and Makai demo'd this weekend.

'19 Makai - the boat is huge! I love the size, interior and the storage of this boat.  The bow area is huge.  The 4k ballast is all subfloor so you have under the bow seats, all the seats in the cabin and with stock you have compartments over the bags in the rear lockers that you have to unscrew to access the sacs and engine divider panels. The bow seat backs flip up to access the driver console area and watchers seat area.  Everything seemed well finished, no rough areas of fiberglass, etc.  Due to the size of this boat however, more than stock ballast will be required to make a good surf wake, it left a lot to be desired. The stock wakeboard wake would be more than I would need with all the ballast at 100%.  I think if you always have a boat load full of people you may not need any additional ballast, but with just 4 of us, even the 2x750's I brought did not help much.  The surf wave looks and feels more skim friendly since it was more of a consistent angled wave up instead of a more vertical wall type wave.  With stock full, the wave was only knee high.  There was about a 5-8' long pocket of really good push even being somewhat of a flat wave.  We tried autowake and filling everything manually and playing with tab settings and never got to what I would have thought the wave should have been.  Even with the extra 750's filled in the cabin, the Raptor 400 was enough to get to surf/wakeboard speed without a problem (pretty close to seas level). I could see thru the windshield without using the bolster seat since the bow rise was not bad at all.  This is definitely a boat you want to demo before purchasing to see if it meets your needs. This is also the first boat I have been in with a surf pipe, I like how much quiter it is while surfing.  If the wave was as good as the stock Craz or Mojo, I would have really considered it in the running for my upgrade.  Sitting in it, I had a hard time believing it was a Moomba! Oh, and 24-25 cupholders plus the 8 phone holders running down the sides.  One other issue I had was the driver's elbow rest just was not in a comfortable location, when I drove, that was the first thing I noticed. 

'18 Craz - super easy to get a good surf wave. Fill everything to 100%, empty a little out of the non-surf side, choose surf left/right, and can tweak the wave with the center wake plate.  Stock has 900's in the rear lockers and some increase to 1,100 or Enzo sacs.  The Enzo's would take up my storage areas under the seats in the cabin so those would not be an option for me.

'18 Mojo - real similar to the Craz on setup and surf wave.  Since it is 1' longer, the 1,100's would probably make it just like the Craz with the stock 900's in it.

Out of the 3, I would probably choose the Craz or the Mojo.  The bow in the Mojo just feels wider than the Craz and it is probably just due to the bow shapes with the Craz being more of a traditional bow and the Mojo is more of a hybrid (not a true traditional but not really a pickle fork either). The driver's elbow rest was in a little better position but was a little too narrow, needs another 1/2" or so in width to make it a little better.

The '19 Craz and Mojo have the updated dash like the Makai.  I like the '19 switches better than the plastic toggle switches in the '18's.

Also, the G3 ballast (6 pumps) in the Mojo or Craz would be something I would have to have.  The Mojo did not have it (only 3 pumps) and just seemed like it took forever vs the Craz the did have it.

I like the size of the bimini in all of the ones I tried (one of my complaints with Axis) and the tower is easy to fold with just one person.

Now I just need to demo a '19 T23, maybe a leftover '17-18 VLX or LSV, and an older '14-15 G23.  I do not want to go into the 6 figure territory and really wanting to not get close to it either.  My goal is decent storage, good size bimini, tower that folds somewhat easy, and no additional sacs required on top of any seats or in the floor for a good surf wave.  I am really wanting a 23'+ for the room. 75% of the time a 22' will work for the normal crew, but the other 25' of the time it is just too cramped for me to be comfortable with 7-9 people in my VLX.

[Cole2001]

I’m surprised the makai had the power with the 400. Did they switch to the 2:1 tranny? 

This boat category pricewise definitely has the question of which is better a slightly used or a budget new model. If it were me I’d seriously look for a nice lsv, centurion 233, Tige Z3, or something in that spectrum. What’s your price point you can get in a used Tige Rzx2 for sub 100k, or even an ri. For the g23 I wouldn’t go pre 2016 just for the spray. 

[jwl019]

7 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

I’m surprised the makai had the power with the 400. Did they switch to the 2:1 tranny? 

It's still a 1.5:1 in the 400. The 450 got the 1.76:1 update.

I really don't have a Tige, Centurion, or MB dealer near me. I guess the closest ones would be Dallas or Houston and have never seen any of those local.

Is the spray really that bad in the G's? I get hit with spray in my VLX if the wind is blowing the right direction.

[bbattiste247]

4 hours ago, jwl019 said:

It's still a 1.5:1 in the 400. The 450 got the 1.76:1 update.

I really don't have a Tige, Centurion, or MB dealer near me. I guess the closest ones would be Dallas or Houston and have never seen any of those local.

Is the spray really that bad in the G's? I get hit with spray in my VLX if the wind is blowing the right direction.

I live in Las Vegas, 25 minutes from the largest man made reservoir in the U.S. and temperatures to boat year around, but we don't really have a Tige or MC dealer and there are no Centurion, Supra, or MB dealers at all. 

[cptotr]

On 10/8/2018 at 7:34 AM, jwl019 said:

It's still a 1.5:1 in the 400. The 450 got the 1.76:1 update.

I really don't have a Tige, Centurion, or MB dealer near me. I guess the closest ones would be Dallas or Houston and have never seen any of those local.

Is the spray really that bad in the G's? I get hit with spray in my VLX if the wind is blowing the right direction.

No. I think it’s blown out of proportion. I’ve been in 15’s and 16’s and they both get spray. 16 is slightly better, but not enough to justify the price difference in my opinion. There is more spray than I got in my T23 though. 

[dealjb]

On 10/7/2018 at 11:41 PM, jwl019 said:

Got the Moomba line up of the Craz, Mojo, and Makai demo'd this weekend.

'19 Makai - the boat is huge! I love the size, interior and the storage of this boat.  The bow area is huge.  The 4k ballast is all subfloor so you have under the bow seats, all the seats in the cabin and with stock you have compartments over the bags in the rear lockers that you have to unscrew to access the sacs and engine divider panels. The bow seat backs flip up to access the driver console area and watchers seat area.  Everything seemed well finished, no rough areas of fiberglass, etc.  Due to the size of this boat however, more than stock ballast will be required to make a good surf wake, it left a lot to be desired. The stock wakeboard wake would be more than I would need with all the ballast at 100%.  I think if you always have a boat load full of people you may not need any additional ballast, but with just 4 of us, even the 2x750's I brought did not help much.  The surf wave looks and feels more skim friendly since it was more of a consistent angled wave up instead of a more vertical wall type wave.  With stock full, the wave was only knee high.  There was about a 5-8' long pocket of really good push even being somewhat of a flat wave.  We tried autowake and filling everything manually and playing with tab settings and never got to what I would have thought the wave should have been.  Even with the extra 750's filled in the cabin, the Raptor 400 was enough to get to surf/wakeboard speed without a problem (pretty close to seas level). I could see thru the windshield without using the bolster seat since the bow rise was not bad at all.  This is definitely a boat you want to demo before purchasing to see if it meets your needs. This is also the first boat I have been in with a surf pipe, I like how much quiter it is while surfing.  If the wave was as good as the stock Craz or Mojo, I would have really considered it in the running for my upgrade.  Sitting in it, I had a hard time believing it was a Moomba! Oh, and 24-25 cupholders plus the 8 phone holders running down the sides.  One other issue I had was the driver's elbow rest just was not in a comfortable location, when I drove, that was the first thing I noticed. 

'18 Craz - super easy to get a good surf wave. Fill everything to 100%, empty a little out of the non-surf side, choose surf left/right, and can tweak the wave with the center wake plate.  Stock has 900's in the rear lockers and some increase to 1,100 or Enzo sacs.  The Enzo's would take up my storage areas under the seats in the cabin so those would not be an option for me.

'18 Mojo - real similar to the Craz on setup and surf wave.  Since it is 1' longer, the 1,100's would probably make it just like the Craz with the stock 900's in it.

Out of the 3, I would probably choose the Craz or the Mojo.  The bow in the Mojo just feels wider than the Craz and it is probably just due to the bow shapes with the Craz being more of a traditional bow and the Mojo is more of a hybrid (not a true traditional but not really a pickle fork either). The driver's elbow rest was in a little better position but was a little too narrow, needs another 1/2" or so in width to make it a little better.

The '19 Craz and Mojo have the updated dash like the Makai.  I like the '19 switches better than the plastic toggle switches in the '18's.

Also, the G3 ballast (6 pumps) in the Mojo or Craz would be something I would have to have.  The Mojo did not have it (only 3 pumps) and just seemed like it took forever vs the Craz the did have it.

I like the size of the bimini in all of the ones I tried (one of my complaints with Axis) and the tower is easy to fold with just one person.

Now I just need to demo a '19 T23, maybe a leftover '17-18 VLX or LSV, and an older '14-15 G23.  I do not want to go into the 6 figure territory and really wanting to not get close to it either.  My goal is decent storage, good size bimini, tower that folds somewhat easy, and no additional sacs required on top of any seats or in the floor for a good surf wave.  I am really wanting a 23'+ for the room. 75% of the time a 22' will work for the normal crew, but the other 25' of the time it is just too cramped for me to be comfortable with 7-9 people in my VLX.

Have you had opportunity to demo 19 T23 yet?  Curious if surf wave is better than previous models.  Did not ever see or hear a good review on the 18 with PW2....

[jwl019]

14 minutes ago, dealjb said:

Have you had opportunity to demo 19 T23 yet?  Curious if surf wave is better than previous models.  Did not ever see or hear a good review on the 18 with PW2....

I did not get a chance to demo the '19 T23 since I bought a leftover '18 23 LSV this past weekend. The dealership I bought from, had a '19 A22 in the showroom that I sat in and crawled thru. I did like the interior a little more than I thought I would, and I do like the driver's seat.  I could not pass up the deal on the '18 LSV that I got to wait around for a demo.

[dealjb]

36 minutes ago, jwl019 said:

I did not get a chance to demo the '19 T23 since I bought a leftover '18 23 LSV this past weekend. The dealership I bought from, had a '19 A22 in the showroom that I sat in and crawled thru. I did like the interior a little more than I thought I would, and I do like the driver's seat.  I could not pass up the deal on the '18 LSV that I got to wait around for a demo.

Congrats........18 is a great surfing boat.  Out of the box with fewer people in the boat I preferred the surf wave over 24 MXZ.

I see you are in NLA....Where did you buy?

[jwl019]

16 minutes ago, dealjb said:

I see you are in NLA....Where did you buy?

I made a little road trip to Austin, TX.  My home office is in San Antonio that I work remotely for, so I will be passing Austin on trips to the office, so hopefully if I need anything, it will line up with an office visit!