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ndahlberg12

Sub upgrade question

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ndahlberg12

I had planned on doing this last year, but other things got in the way. So I am going to pull my 10in free air wet sounds sub out of my 2015 Axis T22. My plan is to purchase a XI 12 DVC from Exile and build a proper box.

My question, for budgetary purposes I was just going to continue using the stock wetsounds amplifier to power it, but after doing a bit of research I see where the wet sounds puts out 300 Watts on the sub channnel and the exile sub likes 600 Watts.  

Will I cause any harm or premature wear to the sub if I run it this way? I’m not totally against purchasing say a javeline to replace it but really don’t want to if I do not need too.

Thanks in advance. 

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minnmarker

It won't hurt the speaker but their are plenty of alternatives for 600 watt Class D amps out there that have "real" specs.  They'll sound much better than 300 watts.  I have 2 Kickers (Bu and pontoon) that cost about $250 each.

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MLA
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, ndahlberg12 said:

Will I cause any harm or premature wear to the sub if I run it this way?

The issue is that the OEM woofer is single 4 ohm bridged on 2 chnls and the xdi is dual 4 ohm. So you could only wire it series and bridged, and only net 220W rms. 

Why not go with the 4 ohm true marine 12" woofer Wet Sounds Revo-12? No paper hybrid cone, 100% composite. Ribber spider over a cloth based. Pair it with the HTX-2 for about 600W 

This would free up all 6 chnls of the HT 6 to drive your in-boats @ 100W rms. 

Edited by MLA

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IXFE
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, MLA said:

The issue is that the OEM woofer is single 4 ohm bridged on 2 chnl and the xi is dual 4 ohm. So you could only wire is parallel and bridge, and only net 220W rms. 

Why not go with the 4 ohm true marine 12" woofer Wet Sounds Revo-12? No paper hybrid cone, 100% composite. Ribber spider over a cloth based. Pair it with the HTX-2 for about 600W 

This would free up all 6 chnls of the HT 6 to drive your in-boats @ 100W rms. 

So let me get this straight...

guy comes in here, he’s on a budget, asking if factory amp is sufficient to run a new Exile sub, and your “expert” advice is to instead get a new Wetsounds sub and a new Wetsounds amp??

Bro, do you ever get tired of giving the same answer to every stereo question?

Q: “I need help with ____________.”

A: “You just need more Wetsounds.”

Edited by IXFE

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ndahlberg12
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, MLA said:

The issue is that the OEM woofer is single 4 ohm bridged on 2 chnl and the xi is dual 4 ohm. So you could only wire is parallel and bridge, and only net 220W rms. 

Why not go with the 4 ohm true marine 12" woofer Wet Sounds Revo-12? No paper hybrid cone, 100% composite. Ribber spider over a cloth based. Pair it with the HTX-2 for about 600W 

This would free up all 6 chnls of the HT 6 to drive your in-boats @ 100W rms. 

I was originally looking at exile cause I really like their customer service  I talked with Brian about ordering my boat with SP1 and goin  all exile but timing wasn’t right. I’ve always like their products. 

Since you brought up wetsounds. I’m assuming you are talking about the 12HP?

If I went that route, would I need to add the  HTX-2? How would it sound if I ran it off the existing amp?

My boat is not here, if I did add an additional amp, do you know if there is room on the distribution box to pull power off of? Would I need to run an additional set of RCA’s?

Honestly if I can avoid adding or replacing an amp I would prefer to go that route.

Edited by ndahlberg12

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malibuskier2003
16 minutes ago, IXFE said:

So let me get this straight...

guy comes in here asking if factory amp is sufficient to run a new Exile sub, and your “expert” advice is to instead get a new Wetsounds sub and a new Wetsounds amp??

Bro, do you ever get tired of giving the same answer to every stereo question?

Q: “I need help with ____________.”

A: “You just need more Wetsounds.”

This made me giggle.

Dave

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IXFE
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, ndahlberg12 said:

I was originally looking at exile cause I really like their customer service  I talked with Brian about ordering my boat with SP1 and goin  all exile but timing wasn’t right. I’ve always like their products. 

Since you brought up wetsounds. I’m assuming you are talking about the 12HP?

If I went that route, would I need to add the  HTX-2? How would it sound if I ran it off the existing amp?

My boat is not here, if I did add an additional amp, do you know if there is room on the distribution box to pull power off of? Would I need to run an additional set of RCA’s?

Honestly if I can avoid adding or replacing an amp I would prefer to go that route.

Here’s the math... the Xi12 is dual 4 ohm coils.  Wired in parallel it presents a 2 ohm load to the HT6. Here are the specs of that amp:

6-channel marine amplifier
100 watts RMS x 6 at 4 ohms (150 watts RMS x 6 at 2 ohms)
300 watts RMS x 3 in bridged mode (4-ohm stable in bridged mode). 

So you would get 300 watts to the sub bridging channels 5 and 6 on a 2ohm load.

If you don’t want to get a new amp, then don’t. You can always upgrade that later. The Xi12 is a bit more woofer than you have amp for. But you can certainly use it. 

What’s your plan for a box?

Edited by IXFE

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ndahlberg12
28 minutes ago, IXFE said:

Here’s the math... the Xi12 is dual 4 ohm coils.  Wired in parallel it presents a 2 ohm load to the HT6. Here are the specs of that amp:

6-channel marine amplifier
100 watts RMS x 6 at 4 ohms (150 watts RMS x 6 at 2 ohms)
300 watts RMS x 3 in bridged mode (4-ohm stable in bridged mode). 

So you would get 300 watts to the sub bridging channels 5 and 6 on a 2ohm load.

If you don’t want to get a new amp, then don’t. You can always upgrade that later. The Xi12 is a bit more woofer than you have amp for. But you can certainly use it. 

What’s your plan for a box?

Thanks for the tips. I haven’t pulled the kick pane yet to see what kind of room I have to work with. I do know I will have to work around the heater. I originally went looking for a qbomb but it seems they stopped making the boxes that were bedlined in a hatch back style. Any tips?

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Stevo
32 minutes ago, ndahlberg12 said:

Thanks for the tips. I haven’t pulled the kick pane yet to see what kind of room I have to work with. I do know I will have to work around the heater. I originally went looking for a qbomb but it seems they stopped making the boxes that were bedlined in a hatch back style. Any tips?

https://www.vminnovations.com/Product_71528/Q-Power-QBomb-12-Sealed-Subwoofer-Box-QBOMB12S-Single.html?rd=gpf_71528&gclid=Cj0KCQjwqsHWBRDsARIsALPWMEOWk-aoWoiFtX_tEgOpezmZ04LmU3uMJkUJnmVSkfmq7Xn2AqlGEwUaAqnSEALw_wcB

 

this is all u need,

 

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ndahlberg12
6 minutes ago, Stevo said:

I thought I would need the hatchback style to work around the heater? I searched some old threads and I thought the consensus was that the square boxes didn’t work. If they do then that would be awesome!

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MLA
1 hour ago, IXFE said:

So let me get this straight...

guy comes in here, he’s on a budget, asking if factory amp is sufficient to run a new Exile sub, and your “expert” advice is to instead get a new Wetsounds sub and a new Wetsounds amp??

Bro, do you ever get tired of giving the same answer to every stereo question?

Q: “I need help with ____________.”

A: “You just need more Wetsounds.”

Since you asked,

First, your conclusion that he can bridge the exile woofer on the HT-6 and get 300W, is incorrect. He cannot safely bridged a 2 ohm load, which is what you get when you parallel two 4 ohm coils. However, he can safely bridge an 8 ohm load, which would be two 4 ohm coils wired in series. 

Second, he CAN safely bridge the 4 ohm Wet Sounds Revo-12HP or 12FA on the HT-6 and actually get 300W rms. 

3rd, he did indicate "I’m not totally against purchasing say a javeline" so the OP opened the door for adding an amp. He can do the HT-2 now, er roll with the current available 300W to the 4 ohm wet sounds and then upgrade later. 

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MLA
2 hours ago, ndahlberg12 said:

If I went that route, would I need to add the  HTX-2? How would it sound if I ran it off the existing amp?

Yes, you could go with either the Revo-12HP and build an enclosure or go with the Revo-12FA. Both can be wired to your current amp, just the same as the current woofer. Simply plug-n-pay at the woofer side and tweak the amp settings a little.

Later on, you could upgrade to an amp like the HTX-6 that will drive the new 12" woofer with about 600W rms. Now you can re-wire the in-boat speaker so each is on its own chnl and see 110W rms to each. 

Or for the anti-wet sounds crowd here, Kicker has a brand new true marine 12" woofer that will match perfect with your available 300W rms. Comes in a free-air/infinite-baffle more or a model for enclosures. Comes in single 4 ohm, so it CAN safely be bridged on your amp, same as the factory woofer is. https://www.kicker.com/km-12-inch-4-ohm-subwoofer  

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Stevo
1 hour ago, ndahlberg12 said:

I thought I would need the hatchback style to work around the heater? I searched some old threads and I thought the consensus was that the square boxes didn’t work. If they do then that would be awesome!

THAT DAMN Heater !!!!

yeah, you may have to search for the hatchback box

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cowwboy

Just to throw this out there. I haven't personally looked up the specs just going off this thread.

You do not have to run both coils. It just cuts the power handling capability in half.
https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=74640
Some of the info gets very technical but backs my statement.

So it would work out being the sub is 600w thermal capability and the amp would put out 300w.

But my honest opinion if it were me I would wire it in parallel then run a freq sweep and find out what the impedance rise in your boat is and if you are within the amps specs bridged. 
But I have lots of electrical test equipment both personally and through work. 

Little explanation. http://audiojudgement.com/speaker-impedance-curve-explained/

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cowwboy

Also to add in, the box and it's location can make an insane difference. 
If you can try pointing the box in different locations or positions and see where the best sound and output is. 
In my install if I pull the box out and set it in the middle of the floor or other open locations I loose a few DB. My port runs along the hull and the hull actually helps expand the sound substantially.  
My buddies shop used a few test boxes to play around till they found what sounded the best for my exact boat and sub. 

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IXFE
3 hours ago, MLA said:

Yes, you could go with either the Revo-12HP and build an enclosure or go with the Revo-12FA. Both can be wired to your current amp, just the same as the current woofer. Simply plug-n-pay at the woofer side and tweak the amp settings a little.

Later on, you could upgrade to an amp like the HTX-6 that will drive the new 12" woofer with about 600W rms. Now you can re-wire the in-boat speaker so each is on its own chnl and see 110W rms to each. 

Or for the anti-wet sounds crowd here, Kicker has a brand new true marine 12" woofer that will match perfect with your available 300W rms. Comes in a free-air/infinite-baffle more or a model for enclosures. Comes in single 4 ohm, so it CAN safely be bridged on your amp, same as the factory woofer is. https://www.kicker.com/km-12-inch-4-ohm-subwoofer  

Kicker? That’s funny.  Anything but Exile, right?? Even when it’s the OP’s preference.

Nobody is anti Wetsounds. My boat this year is full of it, and this is my THIRD Wetsounds system. 

I have nothing against Wetsounds, just your tired old agenda.  

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MLA
8 hours ago, IXFE said:

Kicker? That’s funny.  Anything but Exile, right?? Even when it’s the OP’s preference.

Nobody is anti Wetsounds. My boat this year is full of it, and this is my THIRD Wetsounds system. 

I have nothing against Wetsounds, just your tired old agenda.  

Fair enough then, so lets approach it from this direction. 

Since its been shown that the exile xi 12" woofer cannot be safely bridged wired in parallel @ 2 ohm and wired safely in series @ 8 ohm will only net 220W rms and NOT 300W as you incorrectly calculated, which exile woofer would you then suggest?

Out of the ALL the exile woofers, @IXFE, which one will be best for the OP who's on a budget, to which you strongly pointed out? 

Since we've disqualified 50% of the exile woofers already, I guess that leaves the $600 big 12? Yep, sounds like the perfect choice for a guy on a budget. 

 

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IXFE
21 minutes ago, MLA said:

Since its been shown that the exile xi 12" woofer cannot be safely bridged wired in parallel @ 2 ohm and wired safely in series

 

Fake news. I’ve run the Xi12 this way countless times. 

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Stevo
13 hours ago, MLA said:

Or for the anti-wet sounds crowd here, Kicker has a brand new true marine 12" woofer that will match perfect with your available 300W rms. Comes in a free-air/infinite-baffle more or a model for enclosures. Comes in single 4 ohm, so it CAN safely be bridged on your amp, same as the factory woofer is. https://www.kicker.com/km-12-inch-4-ohm-subwoofer  

Unreal, nice narrrative change Btw ,  playing the victim. Like anyone couldn't quote any single post you have pushing a WS product/agenda. Give it a break, we get it You Rep/sell wetsounds!! Solid product we can all agree on that . But it's not for everyone. It doesn't fit everyone's needs/wants/budget/customer service experience/ loyalty etc.  

your subtle jabs at exile are hilariously transparent and weak. 

"True marine"'/   "hybrid paper cone" , as if there is a significant number of marine related defects that would be avoided with your brand of choice.

"knockoff 8 HLCD", its not a knockoff, its a quality product with proven market share and Marine OEM contracts.

 "exile 8 ", like anyone doesn't see through this petty little Jab, 

Keep doing the lords work my brotha, we respect you for it. Definitely not fake news coming from the MLA camp. 

 

 

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MLA
13 minutes ago, IXFE said:

Fake news. I’ve run the Xi12 this way countless times. 

Um, im referring to the amp, the OP currently has. He cannot safely bridge a 2 ohm load on the HT-6 and in no way, shape, or form, will the xi-12 ever net 300W rms from that amp as you calculated. 

So ill ask again, which exile budget amp, would you suggest to the OP, that will safely bridge on the HT-6 and get 300W? 

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Stevo

I’d suggest the wetsounds Suppository, 

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MLA
17 minutes ago, Stevo said:

"True marine"'/   "hybrid paper cone" , as if there is a significant number of marine related defects that would be avoided with your brand of choice.

So if you were looking at 2 similar sized boat with similar engines and other options, and about the same cost, one was 100% composite and the other had wood stringers. Which would you choose? $30 more for a woofer thats built from the ground up as a marine woofer compared to a car audio woofer seems like a clear choice IMO. 

20 minutes ago, Stevo said:

"knockoff 8 HLCD", its not a knockoff, its a quality product with proven market share and Marine OEM contracts.

For those following along, here is the actual thread where stevo is pulling this from and exile was nowhere to the found when this comment was posted. Talk about fake news LOL. Its a reference to krypt audio witch is a knockoff of the original Bullet Hollowpoint 7.7. 

 

24 minutes ago, Stevo said:

exile 8 ", like anyone doesn't see through this petty little Jab, 

LOL. You are just going to have to live with it. Im going to continue to point out that that exile does not make a 9" tower speaker, but rather an 8". 

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cowwboy
1 hour ago, MLA said:

Since its been shown that the exile xi 12" woofer cannot be safely bridged wired in parallel @ 2 ohm and wired safely in series @ 8 ohm will only net 220W rms and NOT 300W as you incorrectly calculated, which exile woofer would you then suggest?

Out of the ALL the exile woofers, @IXFE, which one will be best for the OP who's on a budget, to which you strongly pointed out? 

Since we've disqualified 50% of the exile woofers already, I guess that leaves the $600 big 12? Yep, sounds like the perfect choice for a guy on a budget. 

 

Like I posted earlier and linking to where others have done it quite often.

You do not have to utilize both coils.

So if he wants to run exile there is the solution. 

I personally prefer DD and they will build you anything you want, depending on your check book.  But the original poster was not asking for opinions of what other subs he should by.

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Stevo
12 minutes ago, MLA said:

So if you were looking at 2 similar sized boat with similar engines and other options, and about the same cost, one was 100% composite and the other had wood stringers. Which would you choose? $30 more for a woofer thats built from the ground up as a marine woofer compared to a car audio woofer seems like a clear choice IMO. 

For those following along, here is the actual thread where stevo is pulling this from and exile was nowhere to the found when this comment was posted. Talk about fake news LOL. Its a reference to krypt audio witch is a knockoff of the original Bullet Hollowpoint 7.7. 

 

LOL. You are just going to have to live with it. Im going to continue to point out that that exile does not make a 9" tower speaker, but rather an 8". 

Yeah because the boat manufacturing and subwoofer life cycles are similar, tell me how many kick a** 15 yr old subwoofers are you running? 

And to answer your question I’d buy the subwoofer from a trusted source that stands behind their products. I have first hand experience with both brands discussed here and exile service is hands down better.

so let me ask you this would you buy your boat from a dealer with minimal support and dealers with a lackey , “our crap don’t stink outlook”, or a dealer with a great customer service record.

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Fman
16 hours ago, IXFE said:

So let me get this straight...

guy comes in here, he’s on a budget, asking if factory amp is sufficient to run a new Exile sub, and your “expert” advice is to instead get a new Wetsounds sub and a new Wetsounds amp??

Bro, do you ever get tired of giving the same answer to every stereo question?

Q: “I need help with ____________.”

A: “You just need more Wetsounds.”

Made my morning:rofl:.... glad somebody finally said it.

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