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Eco Boost Question


NCVride

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2 hours ago, DAI said:

All this talk of gas mileage out of a truck, you'd think gas prices were back near $5.00 / gallon again.

I got the eco for the forced induction at altitude.  Fuel mileage has been a big plus with my estimated fuel savings equalling my insurance on the truck AND boat annually.

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58 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

they appear to be giving the ram ecodiesels away vs their selling prices last year.  laramie eco-d 4x4 crew cabs were $36k ish over the new year.  

That should be closer to the normal price.  People who got all excited got to pay MSRP for a while, now they are back to a more normal 15K under sticker.

 

Local dealer has CC eco Big horns for 31K, about the same price as the Hemi.  I think that they over estimate how many people really want a diesel

Edited by oldjeep
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4 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

That should be closer to the normal price.  People who got all excited got to pay MSRP for a while, now they are back to a more normal 15K under sticker.

 

Local dealer has CC eco Big horns for 31K, about the same price as the Hemi.  I think that they over estimate how many people really want a diesel

well, I think the embargo lift  has dumped a lot out there now, hasn't it?  I loved the ecodiesel when I tried 1.5 yrs ago.  Then it was commanding and getting a 4k premium.  

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Just now, 85 Barefoot said:

well, I think the embargo lift  has dumped a lot out there now, hasn't it?  I loved the ecodiesel when I tried 1.5 yrs ago.  Then it was commanding and getting a 4k premium.  

embargo lift?

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Just now, oldjeep said:

embargo lift?

epa embargo'd all the ecodiesels for like 8 months.  only recently lifted.  All the inventory as I understand was taken back, now back out to sell.  I just did a search on cars and more than a quarter of the 1500s locally are ecodiesel.  Literally 2 months ago there were none as I was looking for a friend.

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1 minute ago, 85 Barefoot said:

epa embargo'd all the ecodiesels for like 8 months.  only recently lifted.  All the inventory as I understand was taken back, now back out to sell.  I just did a search on cars and more than a quarter of the 1500s locally are ecodiesel.  Literally 2 months ago there were none as I was looking for a friend.

Ah, might explain why one local dealer has 0 and the other has a couple dozen.  Price being equal I'd still buy the Hemi, it has plenty of power and cost of maint is lower.

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1 minute ago, oldjeep said:

Ah, might explain why one local dealer has 0 and the other has a couple dozen.  Price being equal I'd still buy the Hemi, it has plenty of power and cost of maint is lower.

perhaps, but have you driven one?  They are oh so sweet.  Real world returns better than 30 too.

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Just now, 85 Barefoot said:

perhaps, but have you driven one?  They are oh so sweet.  Real world returns better than 30 too.

No, not in the market right now.  But in general unless I was going big boy diesel then I wouldn't buy one.  10 quart synthetic oil changes, DEF and stinky fuel for about the same torque curve. They both have around 300ft/lbs right off the line, the eco maxes sooner, but close enough for my purposes.

2014-10be-chrysler-ram.jpghorsepower-torque-57.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

This thread has been all over the place. So, I'm going to chime in and probably not say anything that has not already been said.

I've owned lots of towing rigs in my life and enjoyed most of them to the fullest. I don't think there is a bad choice out there right now. Having said that, I work in the mining world, and we buy Fords for a reason. They hold up and are less expensive to maintain and purchase. Now before everyone gets upset, I'm not referring to any high end or diesel trucks, period. Just plain old F250 to F550 4x4 units.

But I'd like to make a point and I hope everyone gets it. If you don't really need a diesel, why would you buy one when there are so many great gas trucks out there that will more than amply pull your boat? And why would you buy a 1/2 ton diesel offering at 1.5 times the price? It is not logical or cost effective.

I am on my second Ecoboost truck. Both were Supercabs with the 6.5 bed. The current truck, a 2017 F150 3.5 has the 10 speed auto and is simply the nicest truck I've ever owned, and it's just a nicely equipped XLT. You are probably wondering if I'm a Ford guy. Not especially,  but I do get deals on them through my employer, so obviously that is my bottom line. I have tested lots of new trucks and pretty much liked them all. Everyone has something a little different to offer and technology is only getting better by the day. Despite what people will tell you, most of the modern 1/2 ton trucks get about the same fuel mileage, they just all do it a little differently. As far as power and reliability, most of these engines have been around a while and have been torture tested by the most ignorant consumers and dealers available. The only thing I don't like about my Ecoboost trucks is that they sound like a sewing machine!

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44 minutes ago, NorNevRider said:

......

But I'd like to make a point and I hope everyone gets it. If you don't really need a diesel, why would you buy one when there are so many great gas trucks out there that will more than amply pull your boat? And why would you buy a 1/2 ton diesel offering at 1.5 times the price? It is not logical or cost effective.

......

No offense, but I always find it humorous when someone talks about "logical or cost effective" when discussing purchases.  It is rare for people to make a vehicle purchase with those criteria.  They buy what they want (within reason) using emotion, not logic.

Especially true on a boating forum, where the passion we are here for is anything but logical or cost effective.

As to your specific question regarding diesels in a 1500, it is a false argument, as they are not 1.5 times the price.  It is a small upgrade dollar wise from a 3.5 EB (or Hemi in the RAM) that does get better MPG than either engine.  In addition, historically, you get most if not all of the upfront cost back at resale.  Just like you do with leather, or any other upgrade on the truck.

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I am not really a disagreeing kind of guy, so just let me say that you are looking at the option to buy the diesel engine itself. Unless you are going to pre-order a stripped down version, or buy a fleet truck, you will pay far more. Take a look at any offerings in any car lot in the country and you will see all of the diesel truck models offerings in the 1/2 ton pickups going for the high 50K to 60K+ range before taxes. A fairly well equipped XLT in a  Ford will go for about 40K out the door(slightly higher in some areas). Yes, you are going to get some of it back at resale (maybe your 3K if you're lucky), but only if you sell the rig outright and the average consumer will not, which is also to your point.  Dealerships don't make money from guys that buy modest vehicles and aren't willing to pay for the latest and greatest. They make money from guys who want to have the best, most expensive, most appealing model, and have disposable income. That's why you rarely find a diesel equipped vehicle that is not in the highest trim levels.

Additionally, you will pay far more for maintenance for a diesel rig and if you are using it for it's intended purpose (towing/hauling),  you will never make up the difference in fuel costs. I personally own a diesel pickup. I use it only for the purpose of towing extremely heavy, something that I cannot do with my 1/2 ton truck. I bought it used for less than a third of its original cost and maintain it myself. It never leaves the house without a very heavy load on it or behind it. It's not a grocery getter or a decked out lifted race pickup. I'm pretty sure this is not what most diesel owners do as per all of our daily observations.

As to your point about most people and their purchases being illogical or emotionally motivated,  I agree. My point in joining  this post was simply to say that most new gas trucks similarly equipped are about equal in performance when comparably equipped and that most people shouldn't own a diesel.

 We all own boats. But, that doesn't mean we can't make an educated logical purchase of something we intend to enjoy.

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@NorNevRider, in regards to 1500's, you are right about average price on the lot.  The 1500s on the average lot with diesels are the higher trim models.  RAM has limited production of the 3.0, and wanted to maximize profit, so they limited the engine to the higher trim models.  Ford has already announced they will do the same (I don't have the link right now, but can find it if you would like).  But if you compare a RAM limited or Ford King Ranch with a 3.0 vs the comparable more powerful gasser, price difference will not be significantly higher.

Chevy announced they also are bringing a 3.0 diesel to their 1500.  There must be something to this trend, or all 3 of the major truck manufactures wouldn't be doing it.

I don't want to turn this into gas vs diesel, but I will say that I disagree with your statement about paying far more for maintenance.  It just hasn't been proven out.

Happy motoring.

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I was never a RAM fan but I have the EcoDiesel and love it! it is a couple of thousand more over Hemi but I really appreciate having 400lbs + of torque at 2000rpm. I did get a mild tune that added 60 extra lbs of torque and almost eliminated the turbo lag. I also am averaging 25 mpg city and 29-30 hwy @ 79mph no head wind 3.93 gears. 15-18 mpg towing.

Downside is as OldJeep stated, 10 quarts of "special" synthetic oil, DEF and recommended 15k fuel filter.

I'll take the downside.

I just saw pictures of the new 18 RAM and I really liked them!

 

 

 

 

  • Like 2
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Good stuff. You make a somewhat compelling point about the new modern half ton diesels and their respective maintenance costs potentially being a bit closer to some gas models. Additionally, the modern 1/2 ton diesel owners are making some pretty high fuel mileage claims. I'd love to do the actual math and see if the numbers are factual. In my area of the world, Diesel is always 10 cents a gallon more so there are other numbers to be crunched. Having owned a multitude of full size diesels over the years I have tracked my costs and am confident in saying that I paid more (a lot more) for maintenance due to correct interval changing of fuel, coolant, and oil filters, not to mention engine oil capacities of most diesels. And as I said, diesel fuel is considerably higher here. Since my diesel is not the most modern, has higher miles, and works incredibly hard, I change consumables at a higher rate than most individuals might. The filters are priced very high even when you go and buy from Napa in bulk as I do. The half ton diesels will not be much different for these consumables. Then we could begin to talk about the more expensive parts that will most certainly require replacement from time to time.

I have never known a diesel owner who can leave their truck stock. So, in addition, most owners will require an aftermarket intake, exhaust, tune, intercooler, Mishimoto radiator, Bulletproof coolant pump, etc.  I can confidently say that I don't know anyone personally that has not spent extra time and money to enhance their diesel truck. After all, you've already made the initial investment in the best, why stop there.

Anyway, thanks for the interesting topic, discussion, and your feedback.

 

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15 hours ago, NorNevRider said:

I am not really a disagreeing kind of guy, so just let me say that you are looking at the option to buy the diesel engine itself. Unless you are going to pre-order a stripped down version, or buy a fleet truck, you will pay far more. Take a look at any offerings in any car lot in the country and you will see all of the diesel truck models offerings in the 1/2 ton pickups going for the high 50K to 60K+ range before taxes.

This simply is NOT true.  Example: https://www.elkgrovedodge.net/new/Ram/2017-Ram-1500-bae795220a0e0adf706162dfb8989e43.htm

Not stripped down version, $36k for 4x4 crew cab.  FCA is finally selling the diesels pretty cheap.  I dunno whether Elk Grove Dodge is an outlier, but they are actually selling the diesels for less than the hemis.

 

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20 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

This simply is NOT true.  Example: https://www.elkgrovedodge.net/new/Ram/2017-Ram-1500-bae795220a0e0adf706162dfb8989e43.htm

Not stripped down version, $36k for 4x4 crew cab.  FCA is finally selling the diesels pretty cheap.  I dunno whether Elk Grove Dodge is an outlier, but they are actually selling the diesels for less than the hemis.

 

 I've been seeing a lot of Big Horn/ Laramie  Crewcab Eco for 31-35K - same price as a Hemi.  This dealer has over 20 of them.

http://www.jeffbelzer.com/new/Ram/2017-Ram-1500-lakeville-new-prague-mn-e442dc3c0a0e0adf4d75c021f722fb91.htm

http://www.jeffbelzer.com/new/Ram/2017-Ram-1500-lakeville-new-prague-mn-5fa9e7ff0a0e0ae929f9e31b2e5105d6.htm

 

 

Edited by oldjeep
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3 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

These are probably the trucks that had to sit at the factory for ages while FCA got things worked out with EPA last year.

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Yeah, but look at all the things you have to qualify for to get that pricing. Still a pretty good deal, but I hate that lowest price scheme then you walk in and, "I'm sorry sir, you do not qualify for the $750 two left feet incentive, and your existing car was not hit by a meteor sized hail stone. So I'm afraid that's another $500 we can't give you."

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Just now, Falko said:

Yeah, but look at all the things you have to qualify for to get that pricing. Still a pretty good deal, but I hate that lowest price scheme then you walk in and, "I'm sorry sir, you do not qualify for the $750 two left feet incentive, and your existing car was not hit by a meteor sized hail stone. So I'm afraid that's another $500 we can't give you."

Yeah, you do have to read - I pretty much just look at the anyone price and there has typically been room to move down from that.

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15 minutes ago, Falko said:

Yeah, but look at all the things you have to qualify for to get that pricing. Still a pretty good deal, but I hate that lowest price scheme then you walk in and, "I'm sorry sir, you do not qualify for the $750 two left feet incentive, and your existing car was not hit by a meteor sized hail stone. So I'm afraid that's another $500 we can't give you."

The elk grove dodge ones are pretty straightforward.  I got a formal quote from them a while back before chickening out and they OTD quote with all doc fees/title prep/etc etc. Was actually less than the teaser price on the website.  A second time I went back and there was a $500 incentive that I wasn't eligible for because I wasn't going to trade in.

Not like Dennis Dillon in idaho where you have to be a korean war veteran farmer with one leg to qualify.

But to the point I was trying to make, even if your "actual" price is 38 vs 36k, it's still much much cheaper than the 50-60k that @NorNevRider was stating.

Edited by shawndoggy
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This is certainly a new development in the market. I shopped pretty hard in early 16 to 17 and did not see anything like it. This must definitely be in response to the trucks being called off the market and now there is a surplus. So, who's going to go out there and get one and prove Shawn right or see if the dealer's advertisement is legit? I've noticed that the Elk Grove Powersports dealers advertise some amazing prices too. One of my buddies went down there and bought a 2018 Summit X 850 Ski Doo. By the time he got his sled he paid about 1500 more than the Reno market was asking. I have almost always found that local business will succumb to the pressure and effort I put into the deal. Still, it's worth looking into if you're in the market for a new truck. Who wouldn't want to save 20K on a new truck?

And think about it, if this is real, you've got a ton of money left to spend on all your upgrades.

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Ugh Reno dodge tho. That’s the sleaziest dealership I’ve ever been in. They install all sorts of stupid “add ons” to their trucks and then jack the stickers by like $1200!

Hoblits prices are very similar. https://www.hoblitdodge.com/ram-1500-inventory.htm?year=&bodyStyle=Crew+Cab&normalFuelType=&engine=EcoDiesel+V6&normalDriveLine=4WD&trim=LARAMIE+CREW+CAB+4X4+5'7+BOX&normalExteriorColor=&internetPrice=&referrer=%26amp%3Bamp%26%23x3b%3B%26amp%3B%26%23x23%3Bx23%26%23x3b%3Bx2f%26amp%3B%26%23x23%3Bx3b%26%23x3b%3Bram-1500-inventory.htm&lastFacetInteracted=

 

($1000 of hoblit rebate is a lease conquest so may or may not qualify there)

Edited by shawndoggy
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I usually buy my fuel in Fallon, NV which is the cheapest fuel in our part of the state. Diesel is 2.83 and I use the 89 octane @ 2.62 a gallon in my Ecoboost. In the Reno area, the disparity becomes much greater. Assuming and average of 25 and 21 MPG respectively that is 3.396 and 3.74 cents per mile. At 15000 mile per year that's $509.40 and 561 annually for fuel. If your diesel averages 27 and the ecoboost only averages 20 it's $471.66  and $589.50 yearly for fuel difference. That's $117.84 a year saved for a year and the average consumer keeps their vehicle 3 years. This equals 353.52  saved for 3 years on fuel minus DEF. DEF costs for this mileage on a Dodge Eco-diesel are about 150.00. So the savings is about $203.52. I could go on and on about how the fuel costs are a wash, oil, filters, and maintenance is more and in the end we diesel owners just paid more for a vehicle. I love my diesel because during heavy work, it pulls exceptionally hard without compromise and I get the satisfaction of knowing that it's perfectly monitored and maintained by me. I'm not sure that the Eco-diesel or any other half ton diesel for that matter will be able to do that better than the current 5.7 hemi, 6.2 Chevy, or 3.5 ecoboost. HP and torque numbers suggest otherwise. And forget all those test videos that are skewed by a multitude of unfair variations and axle ratios. I'm just being honest about this and doing the math.

If you're in diesel ownership for the long haul, I'm still going to do the math. It's extremely difficult to do this because modern gas engines are lasting an incredibly long time now and the other drivetrain components are just getting better and better. I would say the potential saving is directly proportional to the amount of hard work you expect your truck to do. Diesel heavy duty trucks are designed stronger. Their ability to work over time is also highly subject to the operational and maintenance knowledge of their owner. I am unsure if the light duty diesel trucks have any greater engineering than their gas counterparts.

Shawn, are you happy with your Ecoboost power and fuel mileage? Any issues, just curious? Does anyone know anyone who can prove they paid 36,999 for an Eco-diesel, plus tax of course? I work with and personally know lots of folks (guys and gals) who have an Eco-diesel and they all freely admit they paid high 50s to 60K plus for their well equipped units. And admittedly, I don't know anyone who owns a stripped down version so I can't compare the low end.

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