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2017 23 LSV vs 2018 Axis A24 vs 2018 23 LSV


guitarcrazy

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10 minutes ago, Fman said:

So I am not crazy...the A24 is legit.  I have been preaching this since my demo in Louden.  Hard to argue its not one amazing value for what you are getting behind the boat.  And it has a ton of space for a lot of peeps.

Yup, a24 is legit cuz two people have seen the wave, not surfed it, and say it’s great. I’m not saying it isn’t. I’ve seen the wave in person as well, but since i didn’t ride it (I’ll never hear the end of this either) I’m hesitant to start saying its great. 

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I am taking my wife to look at the 2017 LSV23 today.  The Axis is still in shrink wrap, but hopefully they will get it opened up while we are there.  The 2017 LSV has the diamond hull, which I would not order otherwise.  My dealer says that the diamond hull surfs and wakeboards as well as the wake hull, and that it is only above 30 mph that you see the difference between them.  Is this true?  We don't ski.  Ever.  My MB B52 23V has an amazing listed wave, and the wakeboard wake is not for beginners.   It doesn't really clean up until over 20, but at 21-23 it is massive with huge pop.  I definitely don't want to take a step backwards on wake, so if the diamond hull is smaller/softer than the wake hull it may be better to order a 2017 instead of buying off the floor.  Thanks. 

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9 minutes ago, guitarcrazy said:

I am taking my wife to look at the 2017 LSV23 today.  The Axis is still in shrink wrap, but hopefully they will get it opened up while we are there.  The 2017 LSV has the diamond hull, which I would not order otherwise.  My dealer says that the diamond hull surfs and wakeboards as well as the wake hull, and that it is only above 30 mph that you see the difference between them.  Is this true?  We don't ski.  Ever.  My MB B52 23V has an amazing listed wave, and the wakeboard wake is not for beginners.   It doesn't really clean up until over 20, but at 21-23 it is massive with huge pop.  I definitely don't want to take a step backwards on wake, so if the diamond hull is smaller/softer than the wake hull it may be better to order a 2017 instead of buying off the floor.  Thanks. 

Can't order '17's any longer, order '18's or find a left over new or used '17. :biggrin:

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17 hours ago, Pnwrider said:

Yup, a24 is legit cuz two people have seen the wave, not surfed it, and say it’s great. I’m not saying it isn’t. I’ve seen the wave in person as well, but since i didn’t ride it (I’ll never hear the end of this either) I’m hesitant to start saying its great. 

I think the two people in question have surfed enough to make somewhat of a judgment call on a wave's appearance, but you are correct, we are just two people who have seen it.  Did you think it at least looked good?  Being early in the model year, we don't have a large number of folks who have ridden it.  I suspect it is going to be a very similar wave to the 25 LSV, it would seem smart to just copy the running surface.  

Texas A24 is saying he liked it better than the M235, which is saying an awful lot.  It will be interesting to see what comes up as more folks get experience.  

 

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I just bought me a 2018 23 lsv. They had an Axis on the floor when i ordered my boat. A few of the things that made my decision. 

I  liked the look of the 23 lsv quite a bit better. (Subjective)

Nicer stereo with 10” wet sounds tower speakers. 

575 motor

Better user controls and touch screen. 

Wave was huge on test ride. Maybe not as big as the Axis, but awesome. 

Fit and finish felt better on Malibu. 

Little nicer tower. 

Better windshield. 

My point is just that it is not only about the wave. The Axis was tempting  because of price(25-30k less). In the end get what you want, they’re both great boats. 

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ahopkins22LSV

What's crazy is how fast these boats are evolving. A few years ago we all would have died to have a 2017 LSV wave. 

My suggestion to the OP is that all three boats are looking at are going produce fantastic waves. Sure the 2018's might be a bit better when you break it down to splitting hairs. I'd demo all three then decide which one you like the best. From wave, to color, screens, no screens, price, etc. 

Edited by ahopkinsTXi
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GC as someone who had your same hull, I think you will find that the 17 LSV (I had a 14) will be close to as good as your MB on the goofy side and not as good on the regular side (it's really hard to get a lip going like you get out of the box on that era MB 23 running listed).  From what I've read, the new 18 hulls are probably a lot better in that regard.

SG is a gamechanger as far as ease of driving the boat.  So for surfing it's a trade off.

Malibu wakeboard wakes (and I'm including axis) are much more tuneable than your MB wake.  My MB wake started big and poppy with very little weight and then went to brick wall vertical with full factory ballast.  The malibu wakes will clean up with less speed (say by 19 or so if you balance the boat well) and will start smaller, with more ramp and less lip.  As you add weight the size increases and as you add wedge, the shape gets more vertical.  On my T22, center ballast full and wedge down (I have the manual floating wedge) feels a lot like my MB did with about 1/4 ballast full (which is as much as I'd ever run because "full" I felt like the wake shape was just to abruptly straight up).  I'm not that skilled wakeboarding so take what I have to say with a grain of salt... I ride at 65-70', 23mph, and go w2w toeside/heelside and can do frontside 180s both ways.  My set is pretty boring ;-).  

If I were buying today my money would definitely be in the 18 A24.  By far the best value, and my day on the water has really never been impacted by how many vinyl panels there are on my seatback.  You can really get almost all of the materially important options on axis now (ptm clamping racks, power wedge, 2:1 tranny, 17" prop).  The only thing you can't get that (IMHO) is potentially meaningful is a tower with assisted folding.  I have to fold my T22 tower every time I bring my boat home and it definitely gets heavy after a while.

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Thanks Shawn.  I recognized you from the MB Forum.  I am going back to look at the Axis A24 on Monday.  It was still in the shrink wrap yesterday.  I brought my wife and she of course loved the look and feel of the Malibu interior.  She sat in a 2017 Axis, which she did not like at all.  She felt like it was all hard plastic and not nearly as nice as our MB, and certainly not as nice as the Malibu.  I have been told the 2018 is miles better than the 2017 so hopefully that is the case.  The price delta between the 2017 LSV23 and the Axis A24 is $10K.  Not totally apples to apples though as the LSV has no sub and no tower speakers, and the Axis has 4 tower speakers and sub.  I figure the real cost after adjusting for stereo differences is $15K.  The trailers aren't close to the same, but since my boat stays on a lift the trailer is not really a concern for me.  

I like the idea of the 17" prop, although I am not sure whether the 2:1 will be bad for fuel burn or not.  My MB had the PCM 343 which wasn't a ton of power, but with an aggressive surf prop we had no problem surfing loaded up, and fuel burn was pretty reasonable.  I am curious why Malibu put the 2:1 and 17" prop on the Axis first.  My gut tells me it is probably so they can work out the bugs on the Axis, and move it to the Malibu once the kinks have ironed out.  That is probably my skeptical nature coming out.  I thought I remembered you selling your MB for an LSV.  What made you switch again to the Axis?  I appreciate all the feedback.  

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1 hour ago, guitarcrazy said:

  I am curious why Malibu put the 2:1 and 17" prop on the Axis first.  My gut tells me it is probably so they can work out the bugs on the Axis, and move it to the Malibu once the kinks have ironed out.  That is probably my skeptical nature coming out.  I thought I remembered you selling your MB for an LSV.  What made you switch again to the Axis?  I appreciate all the feedback.  

Axis didn’t get it first.  Malibu first put that combo in the 2016 M235, and then on the 2017 24 MXZ.  This is the third boat and third year running the 17” prop and 2:1.  

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31 minutes ago, guitarcrazy said:

That still makes me wonder why they didn't put it on the 2018 LSV 23.  If it is better, why keep the older drivetrain? 

Yeah, not sure but I assume there is a reason for this.  Maybe that combo was tested during development and it didn’t give the performance malibu was looking for? 🤷🏻‍♂️

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56 minutes ago, SCMike said:

Axis didn’t get it first.  Malibu first put that combo in the 2016 M235, and then on the 2017 24 MXZ.  This is the third boat and third year running the 17” prop and 2:1.  

‘17 25 lsv got it too. 

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From what I’ve heard the 2:1 is really only needed in the bigger boats, Malibu isn’t the only brand just putting it on certain boats. It allows the engine to give out more torque for surfing while being extra fuel efficient. 

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43 minutes ago, Cole2001 said:

From what I’ve heard the 2:1 is really only needed in the bigger boats, Malibu isn’t the only brand just putting it on certain boats. It allows the engine to give out more torque for surfing while being extra fuel efficient. 

 

At this point, it's a cost thing..... the gearbox is more than 2x as expensive because of a much higher torque capacity on the internals. Also the prop cost about $400 more than a 14-15" prop.

All around, the 2:1 setup works better. Even a 20'er would benefit hugely from it. But the smaller boats are cheaper, and they need to keep the costs down. If the 18 23 LSV had got the 2:1, I'm guessing we would have also seen an additional 5k added to the price tag. Not much in the grand scheme of things, but things like that add up, and it's starting to be hard to justify buying a Bu, MC, or CC, when there are more and more good options for 30-40k less. I'm guessing the goal was to keep the LSV at a reasonable price point for the Malibu faithful, and focus more on the style, wakes, and exceptional interior qualities of the LSV.

just my guess

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How much did the base cost increase on the '18 A24 redesign?

My wife and I sat in one Friday night at a dealer event and she didn't think the A24 vinyl and seat cushions gave up anything to the '18 23 LSV we sat in just before it. I could tell the difference but it was nitpicky and it seems like now it's just more a preference to the patterns used in either Axis or Malibu.

I think I have her verbal approval on the '18 A24 if I really want it but neither of us like the picklefork design. Her other comment was the bow is too shallow for her to feel comfortable having kids up there.

C1D5CA7E-F6EE-4C9D-923F-80EB84AA3316.jpeg

Edited by NWBU
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1 hour ago, NWBU said:

How much did the base cost increase on the '18 A24 redesign?

My wife and I sat in one Friday night at a dealer event and she didn't think the A24 vinyl and seat cushions gave up anything to the '18 23 LSV we sat in just before it. I could tell the difference but it was nitpicky and it seems like now it's just more a preference to the patterns used in either Axis or Malibu.

I think I have her verbal approval on the '18 A24 if I really want it but neither of us like the picklefork design. Her other comment was the bow is too shallow for her to feel comfortable having kids up there.

C1D5CA7E-F6EE-4C9D-923F-80EB84AA3316.jpeg

Didn't they make the 2018 A24 deeper?  I will hopefully see it tomorrow out of the wrap.  Did you take more photos?  J

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54 minutes ago, guitarcrazy said:

Didn't they make the 2018 A24 deeper?  I will hopefully see it tomorrow out of the wrap.  Did you take more photos?  J

It’s 2” deeper this year but I don’t think that went into the bow area.

Here’s the only other pics I took of it but they’re nothing special.

F10AE3D3-A01E-490E-B47E-D33600309291.jpeg

165D2AC0-A7F2-47A3-97BF-8B51AA946120.jpeg

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6 hours ago, guitarcrazy said:

Didn't they make the 2018 A24 deeper?  I will hopefully see it tomorrow out of the wrap.  Did you take more photos?  J

What pics do you want? I have tons of boat pics, plus wave pics. 

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15 hours ago, Cole2001 said:

It allows the engine to give out more torque for surfing while being extra fuel efficient. 

Are you sure we can talk about fuel efficient when we are talking about boating, and especially wakesfurfing :lol::rofl::whistle:

And with the saving, you can do a lot of things.

I've had 3 bu, no Axis, but with the PW2, and the better quality they are putting in year after year, Axis is definitely coming a "game changer":innocent: 

Edited by smooky
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On 11/18/2017 at 4:44 PM, TallRedRider said:

I think the two people in question have surfed enough to make somewhat of a judgment call on a wave's appearance, but you are correct, we are just two people who have seen it.  Did you think it at least looked good?  Being early in the model year, we don't have a large number of folks who have ridden it.  I suspect it is going to be a very similar wave to the 25 LSV, it would seem smart to just copy the running surface.  

Texas A24 is saying he liked it better than the M235, which is saying an awful lot.  It will be interesting to see what comes up as more folks get experience.  

 

A24 is legit....I have surfed it as well as all the others mentioned.   All are so close (except M235, sheer power of wave) but A24 is exactly as Fman described.

We are to the point now with PW2 and drivetrain set up that it is similiar to a Chevrolet/Cadillac discussion.  My new boat money will go A24.  To each his or her own.

 

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10 hours ago, Pnwrider said:

What pics do you want? I have tons of boat pics, plus wave pics. 

I would like to see wave pics.  We will not be able to demo as it is winter here and all boats are winterized.  Hopefully this afternoon I will get to climb in the new A24 and see if the fit and finish are getting closer to Malibu.  The 2017 LSV 23 is a bit more than I wanted to spend, but it does seem to be a good value. 

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1 hour ago, guitarcrazy said:

I would like to see wave pics.  We will not be able to demo as it is winter here and all boats are winterized.  Hopefully this afternoon I will get to climb in the new A24 and see if the fit and finish are getting closer to Malibu.  The 2017 LSV 23 is a bit more than I wanted to spend, but it does seem to be a good value. 

This is neither here nor there, but "fit and finish" between malibu and axis are the same.  They are built in the same building on the same assembly lines.  The difference is in electronics, accessories, and detail.  The parts of the boat that you get with axis are just as good as the parts you get with malibu (drivetrain, surfgate, hull, etc).

So for instance, when comparing to your MB, Axis may have less complex upholstery patterns.  But unlike the long cushions on your MB, the seat bases on the Axis cushions wont flex.  The inside of the axis hull is lined, just like a malibu, not painted with bottom paint that wears off like your MB.  Unlike your MB, you won't find a bunch of rough-cut fiberglass edges when you stick your head in the observer's compartment or under the helm.

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