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Promariner on-board battery charger reccomendations


hawaiianstyln

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Can I get away with a 2-bank on-board batter charging system if I have 3 batteries wired parallel for the stereo with a dual perko switch to separate the other Starting battery (4 batteries total)?

If those 3 stereo batteries are parallel then it seems to me that the 2nd bank can go to any of those 3 stereo batteries to do the job?

Thanks

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13 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

bad idea to use a smart charger with bridged batteries. It cannot correctly detect the state of the batteries

recommendation?

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In theory, yes, since you technically have only 2 banks. No matter the number of batteries wired together, they are one larger battery, not seen as individual batteries by a charger. But, the real question is, how many amp/hours is that house bank of 3 batteries? 

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Just now, MLA said:

In theory, yes, since you technically have only 2 banks. No matter the number of batteries wired together, they are one larger battery, not seen as individual batteries by a charger. But, the real question is, how many amp/hours is that house bank of 3 batteries? 

one bad battery in that bank could cause a charger to melt them all.

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1 minute ago, MLA said:

In theory, yes, since you technically have only 2 banks. No matter the number of batteries wired together, they are one larger battery, not seen as individual batteries by a charger. But, the real question is, how many amp/hours is that house bank of 3 batteries? 

That I am unsure of amigo!

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1 minute ago, oldjeep said:

one bad battery in that bank could cause a charger to melt them all.

okay that is my worry.  Good to know.

Right now I just throw Home Depot 10A battery charger on the batteries and I turn the perko switch to all.  That has always worked for me for many years.  I have never had to deal with an on-board charging system. Maybe I really don't need to I dunno

 

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5 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

one bad battery in that bank could cause a charger to melt them all.

Wont argue with this at all. However, the odds of one battery going south is like what, a 1000 to 1? if we take 2 or 3 new batteries of the same type, size, brand, etc, wire them together permanently to form one large bank, they see the say load and same rate of charge linked as one battery. So the odds of one going south before the others, would be rare. 

What is your suggestion?  

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25 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

get rid of the ghetto blasting battery setup or figure out a way to isolate 4 batteries?

Ok, how do you suggest isolating 4 batteries with one being the main cranking and 3 for house? isolated from from what and how? Like 3 individual house banks? Not sure I understand. 

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6 minutes ago, MLA said:

Ok, how do you suggest isolating 4 batteries with one being the main cranking and 3 for house? isolated from from what and how? Like 3 individual house banks? Not sure I understand. 

with a 3 channel isolator on the house bank.

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4 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

with a 3 channel isolator on the house bank.

for the charging cycle or the load cycle? These batteries need to be treated as one. Doesnt matter if its two large or 3 smaller. If they are wired together as your house bank, they cease working as individual batteries and have long since become one 1 large bank. They need to be drawn down as one and recharged as one. 

Running down one, then moving to a 2nd and then a 3rd, only shortens the life of all 3, compared to all 3 wired as one bank. 

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14 minutes ago, MLA said:

for the charging cycle or the load cycle? These batteries need to be treated as one. Doesnt matter if its two large or 3 smaller. If they are wired together as your house bank, they cease working as individual batteries and have long since become one 1 large bank. They need to be drawn down as one and recharged as one. 

Running down one, then moving to a 2nd and then a 3rd, only shortens the life of all 3, compared to all 3 wired as one bank. 

right....That is the issue.  Removing batteries is not an option as we sometimes hangout at a sandbar and people want my boat to play all day.  I enjoy that and enjoy having/controlling my music to make everyone happy.  Instead of hearing MF this and jackJaw that....  I'm going to think that since I have all new batteries, expensive one, a two bank should be fine.  Because what really is the difference between my 10A lowes charger I put on them for the last 15 years versus having an on-board do the work.  The only difference I see is that there are bank seperations to spread the load.  Okay so now I can leave my perko switch in the off position. 

I like the discussion, thanks guys!

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Everyone wires their #2 and #3 batteries as one bank.  You can either do it that way or you can listen to some forum worry-warts.  It's been this way in car audio forever and in marine audio as long as I've been paying attention (20 years?)  The bass tournament boats are all wired this way.  The offshore racing boats are wired this way.  The center console deep-sea fishing boats are wired this way.  The big, off-the-grid solar guys are all wiring them together and charging them together.  You'll be fine.  

I haven't had great luck with the ProMariner chargers.  I prefer these NOCO Genius units: https://no.co/gen2  My last one ran for 5 years without any issue until I sold the boat.  My new one has been just as robust.

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@hawaiianstyln the 3 in parallel house bank is pretty common in the marine world, notwithstanding old jeep's reluctance.  The key is having three of the same batteries purchased at the same time and wired together from the outset.

The second issue is that what you have then is one great big battery.  If you are buying a charger just for trickle purposes, youu are totally right, a 10A trickle charger is going to get it done.  But an onboard charger like a promariner is usually also being purchased for its battery maintenance properties (being able to run "smart" charging cycles that detect the state of the battery and charge accordingly).  The promariner setup in particular is limited as to the size of the battery on each charging lead, and I really doubt that you could get away with a promariner for a three battery bank.  If your batter bank is 200 amp hours, a promariner is going to be totally outgunned.  You'll want a more industrial type charger that will do 30-40a just on that single bank (most consumer grade "30A" chargers are really 3x10A, which is insufficient for your proposed use).  

Or just roll the way you have been and realize that your batteries aren't going to last as long, especially if you run them real hard.

One thing I definitely WOULD NOT do is run your perko back on ALL (1+2) after you've depleted that 3 battery bank.  You'll cook your alternator real quick (in which case you'll be really wishing you'd have just spent the $$$ and gotten the nice industrial charger).

Edited by shawndoggy
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15 hours ago, hawaiianstyln said:

Because what really is the difference between my 10A lowes charger I put on them for the last 15 years versus having an on-board do the work.  The only difference I see is that there are bank seperations to spread the load.  Okay so now I can leave my perko switch in the off position.

The difference could be quite great. A current on-board marine charger would likely be a multistage smart charger with the ability to evaluate the state of the battery and deliver the appropriate charged based on that state. An older charger might be a single state charger delivering a constant rate of charger, regardless of the condition of the battery. This can be bad for the battery on at the beginning of the charge by not delivering enough and again as the battery nears full, by now delivering too much charge. A dual bank will give you the ability to let the charger evaluate and charge each bank based on their own needs. Why is this important? Your house bank and main cranking will be used and depleted quite differently. The house bank will be drawn way down, then likely not receive much of a charge during the short ride back to the dock/ramp. It will need much more of a charge cycle. Bringing a cranking battery and a couple deep cycles in parallel through the switch to be charged as one large bank by a single bank charger does no good for any of the batteries or the charger. Some new smart charges are distribute on demand, meaning that have the ability to deliver the bulk of its output to the bank that needs it the most. 

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2 minutes ago, MLA said:

 Some new smart charges are distribute on demand, meaning that have the ability to deliver the bulk of its output to the bank that needs it the most. 

But he needs to be looking at something a little nicer than the consumer grade promariner stuff for a 3 battery bank doncha think?  I mean I'm pretty sure the promariner manual makes it clear that a single group 29 deep cycle is really the limit per bank.

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damn....Thanks for the replies guys!  Some awesome info here.  I do have all the same deep cycle batteries for the stereo, purchased at the same time as well.  So really with my lowes 10A charger, I'm really hurting these batteries in the long.  I need to invest in a smart charger at this point.

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2 minutes ago, hawaiianstyln said:

damn....Thanks for the replies guys!  Some awesome info here.  I do have all the same deep cycle batteries for the stereo, purchased at the same time as well.  So really with my lowes 10A charger, I'm really hurting these batteries in the long.  I need to invest in a smart charger at this point.

Or just sorta keep doing what you are doing.  I'd have the perko on "off" when you charge, and then charge one bank at a time.  the 10a charger is not going to properly maintain your 3 battery bank at all, but then again it's way better than trying to bring them back with your alternator, and buying a killer smart charger that's designed for that load could set you back $3-400.  If you are just running 3 x $70 Group 24 batteries, that could mean you spend twice as much on a charger than you did on your batteries... the break even point could be really far out in the future (8-10 years maybe).

So it's a balance of doing it the "best" but most expensive way or understanding that your method isn't best practice but it's "OK".  If you are keeping the boat for the rest of your life, for sure buy the really nice big bank charger.  But if you see selling in 5 years or less.... ?

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3 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Or just sorta keep doing what you are doing.  I'd have the perko on "off" when you charge, and then charge one bank at a time.  the 10a charger is not going to properly maintain your 3 battery bank at all, but then again it's way better than trying to bring them back with your alternator, and buying a killer smart charger that's designed for that load could set you back $3-400.  If you are just running 3 x $70 Group 24 batteries, that could mean you spend twice as much on a charger than you did on your batteries... the break even point could be really far out in the future (8-10 years maybe).

So it's a balance of doing it the "best" but most expensive way or understanding that your method isn't best practice but it's "OK".  If you are keeping the boat for the rest of your life, for sure buy the really nice big bank charger.  But if you see selling in 5 years or less.... ?

good point really!  I may just stick with what I'm doing until these die and take your advice for the off position on the perko - makes sense.  I eventually want to switch my batteries out to some Optimas, but that will be a few years before these die I imagine.

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37 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

But he needs to be looking at something a little nicer than the consumer grade promariner stuff for a 3 battery bank doncha think?  I mean I'm pretty sure the promariner manual makes it clear that a single group 29 deep cycle is really the limit per bank.

So you dont agree with the recommendation I didnt make? ;)  The OP has not divulged an actual charger model, so I cant recommend for or against one yet. We also do not know the size of the bank in Ah yet. 

 

26 minutes ago, hawaiianstyln said:

I eventually want to switch my batteries out to some Optimas,

No you dont. Stick with wet cell or go with another AGM like a Shuriken, XS Power or other. Way better AH to $$$ ratio then an optima. 

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36 minutes ago, hawaiianstyln said:

 and take your advice for the off position on the perko

You must have the Perko in Off position for banks in different charge states.  Just charge the stereo bank at the dock and leave the perko on OFF unless you have a failure on the starting side.  Better yet get an ACR with a current/voltage limiter like one from Blue Seas.

Remember, your starting battery is in the same role as your car battery, and you don't have that on a charger.

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