M235 and RI257 compare and contrast

[Monkeybutt]

so I guess I’m opening up a can of worms but here’s something for all BU owners to consider ... 

my 2017 23LSV was MSRP $138542 ... I paid 87500 before taxes ... well I didn’t get the same deal anymore which is one of the reasons that Malibu was out of the running.  It was a quota boat for the dealer ... so he didn’t make much money of it but that isn’t my problem.

Bottom line for me is that you have to make money to stay in business - I’m an accountant ...so I might know a thing or two about that.  But I’m also aware that the margins in the boat industry are much higher than in the auto industry ... so buying a boat with less than 20%  ain’t happening for me ... I would pass ... and I can also say that the offers I got this year for the 23 and the 25LSV were around 25%

so here you have it ... I know I’m stirring a pot ... this is going to be fun ...

[TenTwentyOne]

1 hour ago, DarkSide said:

 Yes,  something doesn't make sense.  I mean 20% off the sheet I have and you would have been in the 120's.  Last boat show season they were averaging mid 140's.   

On a different note you got your X-star yet?  Sweet boat!  Curious how it compares to your G23's.

XStar just came in yesterday. Got a chance to go over, unwrap it, and install the platform, Bimini, batteries, etc.  Really happy with the way it came out. Only experience with it so far, is the demo I did late last fall. I should be able to comment more on it once April rolls around. So far, I have been blown away by this redesign, and it was an easy move from the G. Time will tell.

 

ok, so here is the pricing info I got on the Ri257 when I had one quoted......

Ri257 Base- $140,147.06 with base trailer

H6 450hp Std

gelcoat scheme "core" $0.00

Hull Main flake $514.00

Hull Main rear flake $514.00

Hull Base Black $808.00

Deck Base Black $661.00

Deck Accent 2 Flake $514.00

Maximus tower $0.00

Tower Accent $875.00

Dash Accent Red $235.00

Upholstry stitching red $257.00

GatorStep flooring $1985.00

4j centurion downfire stereo $6993.00

transom remote $338.00

clamping racks lower $2785.00

clamping racks upper $2590.00

Cats $2205.00

plug and play rear $2382.00

quicksurf pro $2426.00

Ramfill $2941.00

boat cover $1213.00

bimini with surf sleeves $1691

ice breaker package (heater, heated seat, wind dam) $1154.00

underwater lights $955.00

interior limo lights $367.00

PTM edge hd panoramic mirror $308.00

dual battery package $0.00

 

 

Total MSRP- $174,858.06

Discount-$35,950.00

Sale price  $138,908.06

freight $1850.00

prep/setup $1600

doc fee $250

Buyers order total- $142,608.06

 

 

Definitely way above 120k, but I had checked every box, and lots of flake. Only thing missing was the 550 and trailer bling. IIRC, the 550 would have added 9k, after discount, and I have no need for a fancy trailer.

 

I do agree with a lot in this thread that the 25LSV is a great value for what you get. But for a 26 foot boat, and all the boxes checked, I thought the Ri257 was priced very well. 

With the MSRP info that I got on my quote, I'd have laughed at that dealer at the Dallas show about his "boat show price" that @IXFE posted. Seems to me, they weren't offering a discount at all, unless it had a 550 and a 20k trailer....

 

 

 

 

 

[DarkSide]

This explains a lot.  I.e. different MSRP.  

My base of 129k  vs 140 and  includes Triple Axle, CATS and RAMFILL.  So that's why the huge discount discrepancy!  That is over 15K in markup, and of the day cost is roughly the same.  

@Monkeybutt. Yeah your likely never going to get 37% off another boat,  of any brand.   Percent discount is also meaningless as @TenTwentyOne and I just put together.   If I inflate the price by 20k and give you an extra 20k off your not getting anything except the feeling of I gots me a HUGE discount.

[IXFE]

The Ri257 price I reported was posted on the boat.  I seem to recall a whopping $15k discount listed (before getting to $170k). I wish I had taken a pic but I didn’t want to get anybody’s panties in a wad. So I was just taking mental notes. To be honest, I was flabbergasted. 

To your point @TenTwentyOne, I distinctly remember the Ri257 being $140k at the PHX show last year. I assumed the difference was 1) maybe a BIG price increase in 2018, and 2) obviously regional difference since th DFW dealer was showing such a light discount. Obviously $15k difference isn’t much on a boat like that, but my experience pricing Centurion in the past has mirrored @Pnwrider‘s... much smaller discount than Malibu. So maybe $15k was a joke, but given the tighter margins how much more could somebody get??  I wasn’t about to find out. I got out of there fast cuz I really don’t like wasting the reps time if I’m not a buyer and I was anxious to see the other displays and was on a limited timeline that day. 

P.S. I can’t wait to hear about the new X-Star

[TenTwentyOne]

@DarkSide

on thing of note, is my pricing was 2018. Your pricing was on 17, correct? Looks like some things definitely changed on pricing strategy for 18. Not all, because a lot of the third party options didn’t jump, but base pricing def changed.

 

@IXFE ya, def not second guessing what you witnessed. Seems that dealer wasn’t offering much out of the gate. Either way, still not a cheap boat.

[IXFE]

2 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

@DarkSide

on thing of note, is my pricing was 2018. Your pricing was on 17, correct? Looks like some things definitely changed on pricing strategy for 18. Not all, because a lot of the third party options didn’t jump, but base pricing def changed.

 

@IXFE ya, def not second guessing what you witnessed. Seems that dealer wasn’t offering much out of the gate. Either way, still not a cheap boat.

I’m figuring out that this isn’t a strong market for Centurion. The dealer also sells motorcycles and jetskis... jussayin 

[Chrisjjbrown]

23 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

@DarkSide

on thing of note, is my pricing was 2018. Your pricing was on 17, correct? Looks like some things definitely changed on pricing strategy for 18. Not all, because a lot of the third party options didn’t jump, but base pricing def changed.

 

@IXFE ya, def not second guessing what you witnessed. Seems that dealer wasn’t offering much out of the gate. Either way, still not a cheap boat.

Let’s see pictures of this X-star.  

Care to share pricing info on that.   😆

[hethj7]

Enjoy.  FWIW, dealer mumbled 150 something to my buddy on the Ri, which is way below the “show price”.  Granted, dealer was working my buddy and his brother (current Centurion owner) to make a package deal for the Ri and Fi.  

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by hethj7
Removed dealers name

[TenTwentyOne]

8 minutes ago, Chrisjjbrown said:

Let’s see pictures of this X-star.  

Care to share pricing info on that.   😆

I’ll post some up once I have a final detail and the ceramic coating on it.

I have a special arrangement with the MC dealer. The pricing I get can’t be used as a basis for anything really. It’s way more aggressive than even “bro deals”......

but to give a rough idea..... it’s a fully loaded boat, except I went with the 6.2 instead of 7.4. MSRP was 206k, and I’m somewhere south of 140k.

i could have saved another 15k, had I skipped dockstar, hydraulic steering, BTS windshield, power tower, and extra racks..... but I decided to just go with it. 

[Chrisjjbrown]

40 minutes ago, hethj7 said:

Enjoy.  FWIW, dealer mumbled 150 something to my buddy on the Ri, which is way below the “show price”.  Granted, dealer was working my buddy and his brother (current Centurion owner) to make a package deal for the Ri and Fi.  

 

 

11% off on that RI what a steal. 

150 something seems in line with 20%+ off I guess.    

Still a hard pill to swallow for a centurion in my book. 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Chrisjjbrown

[Cole2001]

Up here in western Canada we have a lot of particularly wealthy people who like to shop at wizard lake marine, who trade in their boats yearly. 

With just talking to some of the guys the sales of g23’s have dropped substantially and ri’s have gone through the roof. 

I don’t think I’ve seen more than a couple m235’s for sale up here... and they fight move very quickly. seems kinda weird considering the successes of other top of the line models from different manufacturers. 

[IXFE]

10 minutes ago, Cole2001 said:

Up here in western Canada we have a lot of particularly wealthy people who like to shop at wizard lake marine, who trade in their boats yearly. 

With just talking to some of the guys the sales of g23’s have dropped substantially and ri’s have gone through the roof. 

I don’t think I’ve seen more than a couple m235’s for sale up here... and they fight move very quickly. seems kinda weird considering the successes of other top of the line models from different manufacturers. 

It’s just a regional/dealer thing. There are WAY more M’s in Dallas than Centurions. The M has done very well in this market. 

[BadgerBoater55]

7 hours ago, IXFE said:

It’s just a regional/dealer thing. There are WAY more M’s in Dallas than Centurions. The M has done very well in this market. 

Coming to a TMC forum in 2019... @IXFE does the unthinkable and flips a M?

[Chrisjjbrown]

Detroit Boat show... 

I will have to admit I was really impressed when sitting in the RI257 and RI237.  I can see why some people are switching over to Centurion.   There were some items in the boat where I thought they cheaped out.     Like the pager they use to control the stero and the lack of hinged seats.    Also the cheap seat back for wake view seating.   It works but seems half assed.  

I liked the RI237 better than the 23 LSV.  I really did not seem a big difference in for and finish between malibu and Centurion if I am being honest.     From malibu the the only boat I would buy would be a 25 LSV and the 22 MXZ.  

Niether is up to par with Nautique though   

 

 

[The Hulk]

10 minutes ago, Chrisjjbrown said:

Detroit Boat show... 

I will have to admit I was really impressed when sitting in the RI257 and RI237.  I can see why some people are switching over to Centurion.   There were some items in the boat where I thought they cheaped out.     Like the pager they use to control the stero and the lack of hinged seats.    Also the cheap seat back for wake view seating.   It works but seems half assed.  

I liked the RI237 better than the 23 LSV.  I really did not seem a big difference in for and finish between malibu and Centurion if I am being honest.     From malibu the the only boat I would buy would be a 25 LSV and the 22 MXZ.  

Niether is up to par with Nautique though   

 

 

are you shopping for Wake boats or for Bennington pontoons??. Ha

Edited February 21, 2018 by The Hulk

[Chrisjjbrown]

49 minutes ago, The Hulk said:

 

Benningtons are the gold standard on the lake Hulk.  The only boat worth six figures in my book. 

[The Hulk]

23 minutes ago, Chrisjjbrown said:

Benningtons are the gold standard on the lake Hulk.  The only boat worth six figures in my book. 

I know. Considering the 23RSB ,vs new company called Barletta, which has a slick maybe even bigger back lounge. 

[bamaboy]

Summary of boat show brands-in my region only.  Your results may vary and in no way are these prices and trends applicable to all regions.  

1)Centurion-JJ and I were pretty impressed by the Ri.  I still hate the snake skin looking vinyl they always use.  Get rid of that crap already.  Also some sketchy design choices.  However, the boat is massive and fit/finish is on par with Malibu.  Plus, as many have attested here the wave is second to none.  I would need to surf it to confirm but they are gaining ground.   It was funny how hard the rep and salesman were pushing that video study.  Just blatantly bashing Malibu for their gas performance.  

2)Malibu-seem to be holding ground for the most part.  I question some of the design choices on the new 23 LSV and I believe they are losing ground in terms of being known as the "bang for the buck" or "value" alternative to MC and CC.  You can get a "surf ready" XT 23 for 99K and a nicely equipped SAN 230 for mid to high 90s.  I'd take the fit/finish of both of those over a 23 LSV.  The XT 23 does surf like crap but I hear the 230 throws out a nice wave.  23 LSV performance is not in question.  On water performance for Bu remains their strong suit compared to MC and CC IMO.

3)MC-Super nice fit and finish.  I don't trust the surf wave on any boat other than the Xstar.  I hear it is nice but only from MC slappies.  I would need to surf one.  Price at my show was outrageous at 180K.  But that was only 10% off MSRP.  I'm guessing you could do a lot better

4)CC-Nicest fit/finish and I found it interesting that the 210/230 have evolved in the "budget" model for CC.  Apparently they kept the price the same from 2017 and added the new features.  you can get a 210 for mid to low 80s and a 230 for mid 90s.  That's a helluva deal IMO.  The GS series is very nice as well.  GS20 in the 90s, 22 in the 100s and 24 in the 110s.  I don't trust the waves with stock ballast only.  Apparently more weight is needed.  

5)MB-I like them less than last year.  I think just because the price is going up.  Right around 85-90 for a nicely equipped B52 23.  Apparently the new surf wave is good as they went back to the old hull on the B52.   It would be hard for me to buy one over a 230 for 5K more.

6)Supra/Moomba-Moomba seems like a good value.  They are increasing features and holding right around mid to low 60s.  Supra seems like they are kind of getting lost in the crowd.  For resale alone, I would pick another brand.  They don't offer better cost, features, or really anything else compared to others.  I guess their warranty is better (7 years).  That's all I could see.  

7)Tige-gimme a break.  150 MSRP and 120 boat show price on their 22 foot top tier boat line.  Laughable.  The fit and finish is a joke compared to equally priced boats.  

8)Axis-I saved this one for last so most people have stopped reading.  We crawled around an A24 and well....my mom told me that if I don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all.  Let's just say I hope the wake/wave are really really good to justify that price.  Wow....

[TenTwentyOne]

ITT @bamaboy calling me a MC slappy, just because I don't own a G anymore

Interesting overview, but not a whole lot different from what I felt at the NYC show. I am curious why you say the XT23 surfs like crap....... I mean, you raved about the X30 wave, when you had one, and the XT23 literally lays down the exact same wave, only bigger...... The running surfaces are identical, the surf tabs are identical, and the boat is just heavier, with more ballast. And I didn't think you had ever surfed one yet anyway....... I feel like you are making more of a blanket statement because of the wave style you like (narrow, steep, thick, G21 wave), instead of the wider, and more mellow wave, that is easily preffered by at least 50% of the surf crowd.

I do understand that you love your G though.....

[RCorsa]

What is a CC? And where is the natique in this review?  

[TenTwentyOne]

4 minutes ago, RCorsa said:

What is a CC? And where is the natique in this review?  

Correct Craft = Nautique

[bamaboy]

1 hour ago, TenTwentyOne said:

ITT @bamaboy calling me a MC slappy, just because I don't own a G anymore

Interesting overview, but not a whole lot different from what I felt at the NYC show. I am curious why you say the XT23 surfs like crap....... I mean, you raved about the X30 wave, when you had one, and the XT23 literally lays down the exact same wave, only bigger...... The running surfaces are identical, the surf tabs are identical, and the boat is just heavier, with more ballast. And I didn't think you had ever surfed one yet anyway....... I feel like you are making more of a blanket statement because of the wave style you like (narrow, steep, thick, G21 wave), instead of the wider, and more mellow wave, that is easily preffered by at least 50% of the surf crowd.

I do understand that you love your G though.....

I never called you a slappy.  I said I heard the wave was great from slappies only.  I don't think I have even talked to you about the wave yet.  I was referring mainly to information I've seen on team talk.  But you seem awfully quick to get defensive there.

 

As for the XT23 its the same boat that I owned.  Come on now.   Call it naivety I suppose.  Not experiencing many boats.  That was one of the best waves I had tried to that point.  But you're right.  I don't like taters.   Some people love taters. 

Edited February 21, 2018 by bamaboy

[DarkSide]

On a side note we had a "surf fest" type event here over the weekend.  Boats were S238, RI237, A24, M235, SA400, X23, Cobalt R7, G23 and B52.

@bamaboy My two favorites were Ri237/X23  Long, steep, firm waves.  Neither outshined the other, both were really good. 

As @TenTwentyOne noted a lot of people like the big Flatish wave. So the A24 was really liked by the skim crowd.   Mellowest wave at the event.

[TenTwentyOne]

@bamaboy It was an attempt at a funny. No offense was taken.

I was posting more looking for your reasoning on the XT23 wave..... That was the boat we were using for our late season surf seminars last year, and it felt just like riding the old X30 with a bunch of extra ballast I had added. (We did bag swap the XT for these. I think we went to 900s in the back)

 

[RyanB]

30 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

On a side note we had a "surf fest" type event here over the weekend.  Boats were S238, RI237, A24, M235, SA400, X23, Cobalt R7, G23 and B52.

@bamaboy My two favorites were Ri237/X23  Long, steep, firm waves.  Neither outshined the other, both were really good. 

As @TenTwentyOne noted a lot of people like the big Flatish wave. So the A24 was really liked by the skim crowd.   Mellowest wave at the event.

Since we are already WAY off topic, what did you think about the Cobalt?  I saw some Instagram photos of that boat over the last week where the wave actually looked very impressive.