17 22MZX PORPOISE PROBLEM ANY IDEAS??

[bottlefedsi]

Good after noon guys n gals, we just purchased a new 17 22MXZ and whille we love the boat it is completely useless about 30 MPH.  I have tried everything weight in front bags, more people in bow but once she starts porpoising the boat almost comes out of the water.  The dealer told me to make sure all bags and tanks are empty, even thought the dash says 0 percent that doesnt mean they are empty, however, that didnt work either.  I am thinking its the wrong prop as im sure the hull cannot be any different that the others.  I am in central FL and the prop thats currently installed is high altitude torque prop 2249, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Sean

Edited May 31, 2017 by bottlefedsi

[NAW]

Is your wedge in 'stow' mode?  If so, try it in lift...it will run alot flatter.  You'll have to exit out of the error letting you know your wedge is down, but the boat will ride alot better.  However, you won't see speeds much above 34mph with that prop regardless of where the wedge is. 

Edited May 31, 2017 by NAW

[bottlefedsi]

Yes the wedge moves to stow mode when I hit "go home".  Wont that put added drag on the boat slowing it down?  I only as because my 16 A22 that I traded in never did this ever.  Is there a different prop option I should be looking at?

[NAW]

How fast are you looking to go?

[bbattiste247]

Most owners of a 2017 23lsv with the 410hp motor have been going with the Acme 2277. I have been using the 2401 and it works great for me at a 1000 feet.

[tjklein]

34 minutes ago, bottlefedsi said:

Good after noon guys gals, we just purchased a new 17 22MXZ and whille we love the boat it is completely useless about 30 MPH.  I have tried everything weight in front bags, more people in bow but once she starts porpoising the boat almost comes out of the water.  The dealer told me to make sure all bags and tanks are empty, even thought the dash says 0 percent that doesnt mean they are empty, however, that didnt work either.  I am thinking its the wrong prop as im sure the hull cannot be any different that the others.  I am in central FL and the prop thats currently installed is high altitude torque prop 2249, any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Sean

Just breaking mine in and I have the EXACT same problem.  I have the standard prop and above 31-32mph it starts to porpoise.  Not impressed and yes I've tried having someone in the bow and I have 100lbs worth of lead in the nose.  I did have one person sitting in the rear of the boat, but my '14 LSV had none of those issues unless it was very back weighted.

The boat is inherently weighted to the rear with the design, so that doesn't help.  Just breaking it in so I need to play around with it for a bit.  Adding a little more lead weight and going to try some bow tank wight.  (1/3 to 1/2 full)

Other than that the boat is dynamite and performs great at wake and surf speed.

 

[bottlefedsi]

1 hour ago, NAW said:

How fast are you looking to go?

Well my axis with the 350 did almost 36, I just want to be able to go full throttle without jumping all over the place and getting left behind trying to keep up with others headed to our spot.

[bottlefedsi]

1 hour ago, tjklein said:

Just breaking mine in and I have the EXACT same problem.  I have the standard prop and above 31-32mph it starts to porpoise.  Not impressed and yes I've tried having someone in the bow and I have 100lbs worth of lead in the nose.  I did have one person sitting in the rear of the boat, but my '14 LSV had none of those issues unless it was very back weighted.

The boat is inherently weighted to the rear with the design, so that doesn't help.  Just breaking it in so I need to play around with it for a bit.  Adding a little more lead weight and going to try some bow tank wight.  (1/3 to 1/2 full)

Other than that the boat is dynamite and performs great at wake and surf speed.

 

This just blows my mind that a boat costing half this cost rode awesome with absolutely no problems at all.

[NAW]

 

If you're looking to run 36+, maybe a different prop/engine combo would have been a better fit.  It's like trying to take a tractor down a highway.  

Put your wedge in lift mode, 'x' out of the wedge down indicator and motor on, with zero bow rise and a smooth ride. 

If you're not happy with it though, I know a few people that would love a used Gen 2 22MXZ and I'd be happy to take it off your hands. 

[Steve B.]

Shouldn't porpoise at any speed. Test drive one  ?

Steve B.

[teamerickson]

My T22 would start to porpoise wakeboarding if I was really heavy in the back. More bow weight would fix it.

I hope you find a remedy.

Edited May 31, 2017 by teamerickson

[bottlefedsi]

I just dont understand why my Axis would run 38 with the 350 and zero bow rise completely empty, lift stowed and this one you have to use cruise control to keep the bow occupants from flying out of the boat.  I test drove 2 17 22MXZ, one with the 410 (which I went with) and another with the 450, neither had this problem.  My local dealer is Tommy's and they really do take care of all their customers so I am confident they can find the problem, if not, I will not be staying in this boat and Malibu will be buying me out at zero cost to me.  I had previously decided on the G23 but based on the relationship I have with the local dealer plus how awesome the wave is, I went with the Malibu, however,  I will in no way accept "thats normal for a wakeboat" type of BS, so we will see.

[granddaddy55]

My a20

did that with stock and wedge wakeboarding with Bimini which is large for my boat. I put it down and no porpoise, it, I think, has a lot to do with the prevailing wind, when we turned the other direction it stopped, when we run the extra 2 150's on bow cushions non existent 

[Sailvi767]

The 22VLX will also porpoise. I think it's something you have to live with if you want a great wave in a short coupled boat. Filling the bow tank half way would eliminate the porpoise. I would ditch the 2249 and get a 2277. It will handle the weight and give you about a 40MPH top speed.

[Slurpee]

1 hour ago, Sailvi767 said:

The 22VLX will also porpoise. I think it's something you have to live with if you want a great wave in a short coupled boat. Filling the bow tank half way would eliminate the porpoise. I would ditch the 2249 and get a 2277. It will handle the weight and give you about a 40MPH top speed.

Completely disagree.  I have a 22 VLX. No porpoising at all.  It's only going to happen if you're running heavy with too much in the rear.  And I've run a lot of props.  But perhaps you meant 22MXZ.  In which case I have no idea at all.  

But DEFINITELY @bottlefedsi if you are in Florida lose that 2249 with absolutely ZERO worries.  Make your dealer take the prop back.  Just my opinion.  It's the absolutely wrong prop for you.  If they didn't learn their lesson in 2016 not to prop these new engine/tranny's as if they were 2015 and earlier boats it's time to educate them.  Get a 2277 and be happy.  More pitch is going to give your engine and cruise control much more range to work with at high speeds.

I'm interested to see how many more folks come out and comment with this boat now that the thread is up.  Is there a trim issue with the hull shape at speed?  Probably not, but I'm keen to see.  Cuz I REALLY like the '17 22MXZ.

[Sailvi767]

I owned a 2016 VLX, it would porpoise with just two people sitting toward the back. I rode in another VLX that exhibited the same behavior. In the end I just kept the bow tank half full. If there was any water in the aft tanks it would horribly porpoise. I considered the issue bad enough to contact Malibu about it. The 2017 LSV is night and day better in that regard. I never keep any water in the bow cruising.

Edited June 1, 2017 by Sailvi767

[Lees23]

I have 25 hrs on my 17' 22VLX and have had 2-10 people on it and it hasn't exhibited any porpoising behavior yet.  My MC x2 was TERRIBLE but it was very easy to stop by dropping the attitude plate. 

We have taken several lengthy rides in all different levels of chop.  I was actually extremely impressed with how steady/stable the boat is in chop.  I wound think that the MXZ would be even better with more weight up front with the pickle fork. Try a 2277 prop and see if that helps, if it doesn't then fill your bow tank 50-75% full.  Also try to the wedge in lift.  It might actually decrease your drag a little because it pushes your stern out of the game water.  I figured out on my x2 that dropping the attitude plate 25-30% actually made the boat run more efficiently.. I would gain 3-4 mph with no change in throttle position. Same principle, the tab drops to push water down inversely living the stern a little and reducing drag.  We took a long ride in heavy chop and I dropped the wedge into the lift position and I thought the boat ran better.  It stated on plane at a lower speed(20ish) and ran flatter. The engine also seemed to run a little less rpm at the same speeds. 

[Sailvi767]

I would not consider running with the wedge down above the Malibu published speed. The loads on the transom will be huge and overtime I suspect you will do damage. A impact with anything in the water would be very bad. The degree of load on the wedge goes up with the square of the speed. At a given setting 20MPH puts 4 times the load on the transom over 10 MPH. 30 MPH puts 9 times the load. If it were stressed for long term use at higher speeds I have no doubt Malibu would allow it. Their engineers set the limit where it is for a reason. 

As far as the porpoise issue as some have mentioned the Bimini does have a impact. It creates bow lift if the bow is tossed into the air. I tried my VLX both Bimini up and down. Up was worse. For those that say the VLX does not porpoise empty all the tanks. Put a couple of people in the back seats and run at 30MPH in a bit of chop. Report back!

[bottlefedsi]

12 hours ago, Slurpee said:

Completely disagree.  I have a 22 VLX. No porpoising at all.  It's only going to happen if you're running heavy with too much in the rear.  And I've run a lot of props.  But perhaps you meant 22MXZ.  In which case I have no idea at all.  

But DEFINITELY @bottlefedsi if you are in Florida lose that 2249 with absolutely ZERO worries.  Make your dealer take the prop back.  Just my opinion.  It's the absolutely wrong prop for you.  If they didn't learn their lesson in 2016 not to prop these new engine/tranny's as if they were 2015 and earlier boats it's time to educate them.  Get a 2277 and be happy.  More pitch is going to give your engine and cruise control much more range to work with at high speeds.

I'm interested to see how many more folks come out and comment with this boat now that the thread is up.  Is there a trim issue with the hull shape at speed?  Probably not, but I'm keen to see.  Cuz I REALLY like the '17 22MXZ.

I talked to the service manager at Tommy's and they are gonna try a new prop, i will suggest the 2277 and report back with the change. 

[KentC]

8 hours ago, Lees23 said:

I have 25 hrs on my 17' 22VLX and have had 2-10 people on it and it hasn't exhibited any porpoising behavior yet.  My MC x2 was TERRIBLE but it was very easy to stop by dropping the attitude plate. 

We have taken several lengthy rides in all different levels of chop.  I was actually extremely impressed with how steady/stable the boat is in chop.  I wound think that the MXZ would be even better with more weight up front with the pickle fork. Try a 2277 prop and see if that helps, if it doesn't then fill your bow tank 50-75% full.  Also try to the wedge in lift.  It might actually decrease your drag a little because it pushes your stern out of the game water.  I figured out on my x2 that dropping the attitude plate 25-30% actually made the boat run more efficiently.. I would gain 3-4 mph with no change in throttle position. Same principle, the tab drops to push water down inversely living the stern a little and reducing drag.  We took a long ride in heavy chop and I dropped the wedge into the lift position and I thought the boat ran better.  It stated on plane at a lower speed(20ish) and ran flatter. The engine also seemed to run a little less rpm at the same speeds. 

I would have to fully agree with you.  I have about 10 hrs on mine and actually noticed how much better it rides than my 13 vlx.  Plus the lake was pretty rough with it being a holiday weekend.  Its definitely not the best long cruise boat at all, but if I had wanted that I would have saved a ton of money and bought a used INBN/OUTBD.    

I also plan on getting a new prop in a month or so and keep my 2249 as a spare.  It's a bit too much prop for me too.  At around 4000 to 4500 rpms I can run at 25-30 ish comfortably.  To see 30+ I would be way over 5 grand and I'm still breaking it in.  I think the 2277 might be about perfect.   

[Slurpee]

1 hour ago, Sailvi767 said:

As far as the porpoise issue as some have mentioned the Bimini does have a impact. It creates bow lift if the bow is tossed into the air. I tried my VLX both Bimini up and down. Up was worse. For those that say the VLX does not porpoise empty all the tanks. Put a couple of people in the back seats and run at 30MPH in a bit of chop. Report back!

The Bimini having an effect is plausible. I'm not sure how much since I have never had it stowed while using it since buying the boat. At over 30mph in light chop the whole tower assembly rattles and bangs a bit as the Bimini flaps.

I love running tests though. How much chop are we talking about? Like holiday lake chop with random big rollers? 30mph wind chop? White capping? I'm game to go find the edges of this. 

Also I thought of something else that's a factor. At that speed hull shape is a big variable. I run a diamond hull. How about everyone else who's commented? That may be the missing piece of the puzzle. 

[Sailvi767]

You might be on to something with the hull. My LSV is a diamond. The VLX is a wake. The diamond has more stern lift above 22 MPH and that should really help stop porpoising. Did not even consider it until you mentioned it.

[Lees23]

Wake hull here.

Also, i believe Salvi mentioned wedge >than the prescribed speeds... I was never above 25, which is below the limit for the wedge.  

[Sailvi767]

I mentioned the wedge because the OP mentioned wanting to run above 30 and there were suggestions to use the wedge in lift mode.

[bottlefedsi]

So finally, we found out that the hull hasnt enough fiberglass on the transom of the boat which is causing the porpoising, according to Malibu.  They tell me they have to ship the boat back to TN, remove gel off the hull, put more glass on the area then re apply the gel to the hull once more.  I myself dont feel great about them "patching" my 120,000 dollar boat, am I crazy for feeling this way or should I not worry about the quality of this kind of repair?