M235 first day on the water

[WAwinegrapes]

5 hours ago, Ronnie said:

Stop that. Remember you're on permeant probation here...

What is permeant probation?

Is that in the TOUs somewhere?

thanks

Edited April 17, 2017 by WAwinegrapes

[Fman]

3 hours ago, bamaboy said:

Whatever it is, I'm sure it's your fault

optimistic. An optimistic person thinks the best possible thing will happen, and hopes for it even if it's not likely.

You are truly a valuable contributor around here.

[Bawshogg]

1 hour ago, 85 Barefoot said:

These factory fill antifreeze issues on boats with multiple heaters seem to be the recurring theme.  I hope dealers are getting the memo.  I still don't see how a boat leaves for delivery without dealer having checked all fluid levels though.  Obviously the heater is drawing down the amount of antifreeze in reservoir.  Seems a disconnect between Malibu and dealers about who is responsible for filling?

A vacuum fill procedure would eliminate almost ALL theses issues. Loose clamps.....you can't build or hold a vacuum on the cooling system, same with forgotten connections. When the system is under say 30" of vacuum, there are no air voids to contend with. The system will literally fill itself once the coolant mixture is allowed to enter the system . If it doesn't build and hold vacuum , you KNOW you have an issue. This is something that should be done from the manufacturer. There is NO reason to open the closed side of the system for winterization. It should be filled from the factory and not touched until the specified service interval. Malibu SHOULD be the responsible party, with a secondary VISUAL level check from the dealer. JUST as a check point.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Bawshogg

[85 Barefoot]

I have not looked at cooling plumb on a 2017, so take what I'm saying with a grain of salt, BUT, it seems as if the factory is draining coolant from heater lines prior to shipping.  There are a few reasons that makes sense, many that don't.  However, its clearly happening.  Lack of communication it seems to me.  

[spikew919]

55 minutes ago, TenTwentyOne said:

Well, the boat is water tested at the factory, and all features and options are checked for proper operation. It is then winterized and wrapped up, which wouldn't involve any draining of the closed cooling system....... so, I would say it's malibus responsibility to fill and check, before a water test. I wouldn't think they water test them with only half the coolant in. Besides that, the factory heater install shouldn't matter, because they wouldn't be filling any of the cooling system until the engine is installed and plumbed up. Indmar ships the engines to Malibu dry. All the coolant goes in at the factory.

 

That said, it's definitely up to the dealer to verify the cooling system is still full at delivery. If it's not, they should be doing a full investigation as to where it went...... not just fill it back up, and send it.

In dealers defense, there was no visible sign of antifreeze all over motor or cover. I know he ran it after he filled it, due to he sent me vids of the wave, it's his first M235 to sale and as excited as I was. Not even antifreeze in bilge. Just a little around reservoir where they spilt while filling on the water to top everything off.  

 

Now after i ran it it no longer than  25 minutes at the most. Antifreeze all over everything. Like I said, even in lockers and on some of the life jackets. 

 

 

My theory is, factory did not properly fill, dealer ran on hose but temp did not get High enough to open thermostat, so reservoir stayed full.  Then dealer took to lake. Ran hard, thermostat opened. allowed air into system, overheated with steam, seal ran dry. Topped off with almost 3 gallons, which is pretty close to what 2 -3/4" lines all the way around boat and 2 heater cores would be, ran again and the seal stayed together that run, no overheat and no fluid loss, (this is time he made vids of boat and wake and surf waves), then I picked boat up and seal that has been too hot gives up.  It's just a theory, but very plausible.

Edited April 17, 2017 by spikew919

[spikew919]

36 minutes ago, Fman said:

optimistic. An optimistic person thinks the best possible thing will happen, and hopes for it even if it's not likely.

You are truly a valuable contributor around here.

I'm not sure what went down between you two. But in the optimist subject, I am and used to be more of one, but as this new work force or lack there of is coming through, I have also become more of a realist, and realistically speaking. Probably a worker thinks he or she deserves a check instead of thinking he or she should earn their check. Is the root of most of the problems.  Just my .02

[Ronnie]

34 minutes ago, Bawshogg said:

A vacuum fill procedure would eliminate almost ALL theses issues. Loose clamps.....you can't build or hold a vacuum on the cooling system, same with forgotten connections. When the system is under say 30" of vacuum, there are no air voids to contend with. The system will literally fill itself once the coolant mixture is allowed to enter the system . If it doesn't build and hold vacuum , you KNOW you have an issue. This is something that should be done from the manufacturer. There is NO reason to open the closed side of the system for winterization. It should be filled from the factory and not touched until the specified service interval. Malibu SHOULD be the responsible party, with a secondary VISUAL level check from the dealer. JUST as a check point.

IME, after several years in the automotive production industry, The vac/fill process will not detect a loose clamp until it's forced filled, then blowing off the line. It will detect a hose not connected but the vacuum creates a seal on the loose hose/fitting. When the fill starts, it will blow the line off and AF goes everywhere.

[Fman]

5 minutes ago, spikew919 said:

I'm not sure what went down between you two. But in the optimist subject, I am and used to be more of one, but as this new work force or lack there of is coming through, I have also become more of a realist, and realistically speaking. Probably a worker thinks he or she deserves a check instead of thinking he or she should earn their check. Is the root of most of the problems.  Just my .02

Nothing went down but I used to know a guy on this forum who was really cool.  Whatever happened to him?  Maybe too much kool aid from the PN forum.

[Chrisjjbrown]

5 minutes ago, Fman said:

Nothing went down but I used to know a guy on this forum who was really cool.  Whatever happened to him?  Maybe too much kool aid from the PN forum.

The shire is dark and dreary place, too much time spent there is not good for ones soul.   

[bamaboy]

13 minutes ago, Fman said:

Nothing went down but I used to know a guy on this forum who was really cool.  Whatever happened to him?  Maybe too much kool aid from the PN forum.

A tongue in cheek joke that clearly not everyone appreciated.

But, did I just get accused of drinking Kool Aid from @Fman?  I love you Travis but come on bro.  That is like Ronald Weasly calling @Chrisjjbrown a ginger.  

 

[Chrisjjbrown]

27 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

A tongue in cheek joke that clearly not everyone appreciated.

But, did I just get accused of drinking Kool Aid from @Fman?  I love you Travis but come on bro.  That is like Ronald Weasly calling @Chrisjjbrown a ginger.  

 

Don't worry his soul isn't completely lost........In a recent photo that was leaked from the shire he is still training future generations to protect the ring while wearing malibu gear. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by Chrisjjbrown

[TenTwentyOne]

@spikew919- your theory is certainly plausible! However, if that is truely how it all happened, I would be VERY worried about the general condition of the entire engine. 

 You have to be ridiculously low on coolant to burn the water pump bushing and seal out. If it was that low, there is more damage than just the water pump. You might see it when you take it out the next time....... or you might see a blown head gasket after 50 hrs....... or you might see a cracked piston or two after 100 hours.

It takes a solid amount of time, with almost 0 coolant to take out that bushing. If that ecm recorded any extreme overheats, I would definitely request a new engine (under the circumstances)

(unless the bushing had a flaw, and that was the reason it failed, rather than being that low on coolant)

Edited April 17, 2017 by TenTwentyOne

[Fman]

1 hour ago, bamaboy said:

A tongue in cheek joke that clearly not everyone appreciated.

But, did I just get accused of drinking Kool Aid from @Fman?  I love you Travis but come on bro.  That is like Ronald Weasly calling @Chrisjjbrown a ginger.  

 

Yeah the Malibu stuff is like 140 proof....strong.  At least the kool aid I drink is from the boat brand I actually currently own.   There is a reason I don't visit PN or TT....I don't own either of these boats and stick to my roots.  Just seems odd to me be a lurker on other brands forums, I really could care less about them.

Back in your prime I can recall you being a really beneficial contributor on this forum.  Man doc, those were the good ole' days...

I apologize to the op, did not mean to derail your thread.  I will quietly let this get back on topic.

[spikew919]

Well got update from dealer. It's actually good news, Tiny pin hole on heater hose close to clamp that when thermostats opens sprays onto idler pully. Pinhole Must have progressively gotten larger. Should be bringing boat back to me maybe tomorrow. Thanks for all the positive responses and valuable info. 

@Fman no worries here about thread having few curves in it. It's all in good fun and commrotery. Some opinions may differ from time to time, but the bottom line is we all have a love for boating in common and everyone has things they can add at any given time. I welcome the good info and always with good info sometimes there is bad. But we should welcome it all. ??????

[TenTwentyOne]

55 minutes ago, Fman said:

Yeah the Malibu stuff is like 140 proof....strong.  At least the kool aid I drink is from the boat brand I actually currently own.   There is a reason I don't visit PN or TT....I don't own either of these boats and stick to my roots.  Just seems odd to me be a lurker on other brands forums, I really could care less about them.

Back in your prime I can recall you being a really beneficial contributor on this forum.  Man doc, those were the good ole' days...

I apologize to the op, did not mean to derail your thread.  I will quietly let this get back on topic.

 

You callin me fat?!? 

 

 

 

I like the group over here. It has made it hard for me to leave, just because I switched to "the other guys". But I try to limit the biased, and be helpful sometimes!! 

[Fffrank]

So that's two M235s with near catastrophic failures that are 100% the factory fault and require AT LEAST a new engine and possibly a replacement 2018 boat.... that turn out to be incredibly minor, very easily (and quickly) resolved issues.  

What are we going to bash Malibu about now?!

[Bawshogg]

3 hours ago, Ronnie said:

IME, after several years in the automotive production industry, The vac/fill process will not detect a loose clamp until it's forced filled, then blowing off the line. It will detect a hose not connected but the vacuum creates a seal on the loose hose/fitting. When the fill starts, it will blow the line off and AF goes everywhere.

Ok. Now I have seen this occur, but its typically rare. It depends mostly on how tight the hose fits the nipple or barb. How bout we apply 16-18 psi of pressure to the cooling system. Watch bleed down for lets say 3-5 minutes... if its acceptable,  THEN go into our vacuum procedure once its passed. We just added 5-10 minutes to production time, but SAVED how much frustration for your dealers, customers and people watching this forum????

I have never seen a hose "blow" off from being filled under vacuum . There is negative pressure in the system until tit reaches atmospheric, correct? Now once it reaches a pressure state, yes.

[IXFE]

Just now, Fffrank said:

So that's two M235s with near catastrophic failures that are 100% the factory fault and require AT LEAST a new engine and possibly a replacement 2018 boat.... that turn out to be incredibly minor, very easily (and quickly) resolved issues.  

What are we going to bash Malibu about now?!

If my new 25 has so much as one carpet fiber going the wrong direction, you fellas are gonna hear about it and I'm gonna demand a new boat.  

[Ronnie]

14 minutes ago, Bawshogg said:

Ok. Now I have seen this occur, but its typically rare. It depends mostly on how tight the hose fits the nipple or barb. How bout we apply 16-18 psi of pressure to the cooling system. Watch bleed down for lets say 3-5 minutes... if its acceptable,  THEN go into our vacuum procedure once its passed. We just added 5-10 minutes to production time, but SAVED how much frustration for your dealers, customers and people watching this forum????

I have never seen a hose "blow" off from being filled under vacuum . There is negative pressure in the system until tit reaches atmospheric, correct? Now once it reaches a pressure state, yes.

Well, we had 60 seconds to evacuate and fill in the operation footprint. 60 vehicles an hour. The thing is that when the hose blew, the machine still continued to add the same amount of fluid that was required but most of it was blowing out the end of the hose that just blew off and onto the operator. I couldn't count how many times employees were soaked with antifreeze at that operation. Usually those operators kept a change of clothes in their locker so they wouldn't have to wear hot coveralls or work the rest of their shift soaked in AF. If the system could add pressure to blow the lose hose off first, it would have prevented the blow outs. 

[bamaboy]

2 hours ago, spikew919 said:

Well got update from dealer. It's actually good news, Tiny pin hole on heater hose close to clamp that when thermostats opens sprays onto idler pully. Pinhole Must have progressively gotten larger. Should be bringing boat back to me maybe tomorrow. Thanks for all the positive responses and valuable info. 

@Fman no worries here about thread having few curves in it. It's all in good fun and commrotery. Some opinions may differ from time to time, but the bottom line is we all have a love for boating in common and everyone has things they can add at any given time. I welcome the good info and always with good info sometimes there is bad. But we should welcome it all. ??????

Can you elaborate on this?  How does that result in coolant being sprayed all over the engine compartment?

[spikew919]

3 minutes ago, bamaboy said:

Can you elaborate on this?  How does that result in coolant being sprayed all over the engine compartment?

A little bit of antifreeze goes a long ways, The pinhole is directly spraying on idler pullly. So belt slinging antifreeze around. And then the top plastic cover of engine compounds the results by splattering it every direction. By the time I got it to ramp and loaded, had lost all coolant from reservoir. And it holds a little over half a gallon. Just glad it happened close to ramp and not down river 10 miles, sometimes you don't see another soul out. All I would have been able to do is keep filling with river water if worse came to worse.  Kwim?

[billjames]

3 hours ago, IXFE said:

If my new 25 has so much as one carpet fiber going the wrong direction, you fellas are gonna hear about it and I'm gonna demand a new boat.  

Do not worry, yours is a special build, only the top performers will work on it, and every items will be QA at least 3 times.

[nyryan2001]

Lol this thread rocks

 

[IXFE]

22 minutes ago, billjames said:

Do not worry, yours is a special build, only the top performers will work on it, and every items will be QA at least 3 times.

I wish that were true, but I've been to the factory and I know better. 

[spikew919]

2 hours ago, bamaboy said:

Can you elaborate on this?  How does that result in coolant being sprayed all over the engine compartment?

Or think about it this way, a ? walks into a bar, has several too many ?, then walks to urinal, relieves himself standing too close at a like a straight up angle into urinal, and being a strong ? his stream is around 3000 rpms.  Where does stream end up?? ???????