Jump to content

Welcome to TheMalibuCrew!

As a guest, you are welcome to poke around and view the majority of the content that we have to offer, but in order to post, search, contact members, and get full use out of the website you will need to Register for an Account. It's free and it's easy, so don't hesitate to join the TheMalibuCrew Family today!

M235 first day on the water


spikew919

Recommended Posts

9 minutes ago, wheelman said:

Maybe for the factory hard tank ballast they are ok but for the plug and play the fill and drain times are unacceptable. They will also not get all the water out of the bags on the plug and play. Not completely do they require no maintance. I have had them plug up a few times and have to take the cartridge out to clean the debris or the pump had failed.  Run dry is not a problem on most factory offered impeller pumps as they are on adjustable timers. Would just think on their flagship m235 they could offer an impeller pump for the plug and play. Maybe this is because Malibu does not include the bags as a factory option to keep the weight capacity up for people and gear. 

Agree... but on the other hand... no boat manufacture that I am aware of offers separate pumps for the PNP.. could be wrong but:

1. Supra has PNP and no additional pumps for the PNP

2. Moomba is the same

3. Tige is the same

4. Nautique does not even offer PNP on the G23 and is a pain to add (from my understanding from my boat mechanic that is not associated with Malibu on the to add part)

 

I don't know about MasterCraft or other that I did not mention.. but those above I do know

Ooops sorry my fault:

1. Centurion

2. Ski supreme

3. MB

due to they are gravity fed and the PNP has to be filled by an extra pump... I am not positive on MB if they come with factory PNP or not.

Edited by kerpluxal
Link to comment
9 minutes ago, wheelman said:

Maybe for the factory hard tank ballast they are ok but for the plug and play the fill and drain times are unacceptable. They will also not get all the water out of the bags on the plug and play. Not completely do they require no maintance. I have had them plug up a few times and have to take the cartridge out to clean the debris or the pump had failed.  Run dry is not a problem on most factory offered impeller pumps as they are on adjustable timers. Would just think on their flagship m235 they could offer an impeller pump for the plug and play. Maybe this is because Malibu does not include the bags as a factory option to keep the weight capacity up for people and gear. 

I disagree.  Strongly.  Properly plumbed late model PNP plumbing is far from unacceptable fill/drain times.  Enjoy Ramfill.  I'll stick w aerators and be quite happy thank you.

Link to comment
6 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

Agree... but on the other hand... no boat manufacture that I am aware of offers separate pumps for the PNP.. could be wrong but:

1. Supra has PNP and no additional pumps for the PNP

2. Moomba is the same

3. Tige is the same

4. Nautique does not even offer PNP on the G23 and is a pain to add (from my understanding from my boat mechanic that is not associated with Malibu on the to add part)

 

I don't know about MasterCraft or other that I did not mention.. but those above I do know

The centurions have separate dedicated pumps for their plug n play v drive locker bags, transom bag and bow bag. Now theirs comes from the factory as an option with the bags installed and does not count against the  total weight capacity so maybe a little different comparison. 

Link to comment
39 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

This makes no sense.  Were your PNP bags filling from the hard tank overflow ?

PNP bags had a second fill pump, aerator, and only used factory drain so I had factory 1100 GPH  + 2000 GPH of fill and factory 1100 GPH drain.... So fill was basically 3x faster.  

I have no beef with aerator, my point is use 3800 for Rear locations also, so PNP fill/drain times are reasonable.  

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

I disagree.  Strongly.  Properly plumbed late model PNP plumbing is far from unacceptable fill/drain times.  Enjoy Ramfill.  I'll stick w aerators and be quite happy thank you.

Of course you do cause that's what you do. So on my 2015 lsv 12 to 15 minutes to drain my 750 bags is acceptable in your mind? Not being able to get all the water out of them, And having to burp them everytime cause they did not offer a vent, hopefully the 2017 with auto vent  has fixed that. Ramfill was never a discussion on this thread, but yes I will enjoying emptying and draining 3000lbs of water in under 45 seconds, thanks. 

Link to comment
Just now, wheelman said:

The centurions have separate dedicated pumps for their plug n play v drive locker bags, transom bag and bow bag. Now theirs comes from the factory as an option with the bags installed and does not count against the  total weight capacity so maybe a little different comparison. 

sorry.. I did add that to my list after I posted... along with MB.. My only issue with gravity fed is that if you have an accident on the water and can no longer plane, you can't drain.. Been on a MB that this happened to and the only way to drain was to idle back to trailer.. put trailer in real deep (truck bed was in water).. pull out far enough to allow tanks to drain.. 

I love the concept of gravity fill..But I don't like all of it.. Got to play with it in a Supreme.. but all of its advantages were washed out by waiting for all the other bags to fill :( would love to see drain pumps on them in case of emergency (bent prop to whatever makes you have to limp back)

I have not seen it yet but supposedly Mr Murphy developed a new one that does allow you fill while in motion also.. which is the other aspect I wish gravity systems were capable of

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
6 minutes ago, wheelman said:

Of course you do cause that's what you do. So on my 2015 lsv 12 to 15 minutes to drain my 750 bags is acceptable in your mind? Not being able to get all the water out of them, And having to burp them everytime cause they did not offer a vent, hopefully the 2017 with auto vent  has fixed that. Ramfill was never a discussion on this thread, but yes I will enjoying emptying and draining 3000lbs of water in under 45 seconds, thanks. 

I can tell you for sure it doesn't take near that long.  I used to have a 2012 Axis, so I know what long drain times are.  I could care less about a gallon or three in PNP bags when I go on the lift or trailer.  They do eventually drain obviously.  And yes, I find it completely acceptable.  When you spent ten years riding before the advent of the skylon, all of these first world problems are more than acceptable.  I spent literally ten years using five gallon buckets filled with concrete to ride in our nautique.  7 minutes of drain with infinite customization with a button, yeah I'm more than fine.  Heck my first fat sac was a waterbed mattress with velcro straps.  BEfore that it was a farm irrigation tank filled with a syphon.  With Ramfill there is no customization and I've seen more than my share of problems.  Cheap, fast aerator pumps are fine with me, preferred actually.  5-7 minutes to drain = opportunity for a beverage.  To each his own.

Edited by 85 Barefoot
  • Like 2
Link to comment

@85 Barefoot all soft bags are optional, so very similar to PNP, just bags are included with the option, and have thier own pump.  You can also custom order with bag/pump instead of ramfill.

So the topic is PNP bags, to add secondary pump, or go with factory PNP style.  Secondary pumps fill faster, drain faster and drain completely.  Downside is it is not integrated, and cost is a bit higher. 

Edited by DarkSide
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, DarkSide said:

PNP bags had a second fill pump, aerator, and only used factory drain so I had factory 1100 GPH  + 2000 GPH of fill and factory 1100 GPH drain.... So fill was basically 3x faster.  

I have no beef with aerator, my point is use 3800 for Rear locations also, so PNP fill/drain times are reasonable.  

If I only had room for them 3800.. guess my boat to old lol

 

1 minute ago, Anderson24 said:

I find it pretty comical, the whole drain time/fill time. I literally have never been in a hurry in either of those situations. Really never even thought about it on the water! When my tanks are filling, I'm talking with my family and friends. Maybe even going over rules and/or proper technique for surfing. No time wasted in my opinion.

Why are we in such a hurry when we are on a boat?

All of this talk about time, etc. You know what is ironic? Watching certain boat manufacturers try to get a clean wakeboard wake, or trying to get a clean wave to surf, spending in excess of 10 minutes for this to happen. "Hey, sit over here! Wait no, back over here! Now freeze!" Well, so glad your tanks were filled before mine. That's the beauty of a Malibu...so what if it takes a few more minutes to fill ballast?...I bet it can form a rideable wave/wake faster than most manufacturers, right off of the trailer, with the push of a button. No time wasted. 

Irony is so entertaining to me. 

I really agree with this... and btw.. I fill/drain as I drive and time has never been an issue.. I have multiple different levels of wakeboarders on my boat.. beginners go first (no ballast).. start filling tanks progressively as the talent increases... then go surf... fill while driving to location... Drain as I head back to ramp...  

Link to comment
Just now, 85 Barefoot said:

I can tell you for sure it doesn't take near that long.  I used to have a 2012 Axis, so I know what long drain times are.  I could care less about a gallon or three in PNP bags when I go on the lift or trailer.  They do eventually drain obviously.  And yes, I find it completely acceptable.  When you spent ten years riding before the advent of the skylon, all of these first world problems are more than acceptable.  I spent literally ten years using five gallon buckets filled with concrete to ride in our nautique.  7 minutes of drain with infinite customization with a button, yeah I'm more than fine.  No customization and seen more than my share of problems.  Cheap, fast aerator pumps are fine with me, preferred actually, over Ramfill.

Yes I do too remember the days of leaning over the side of my prostar 190 with the rear seat removed to fill up rubber maid containers with water for ballast 

Link to comment
Just now, DarkSide said:

@85 Barefoot all soft bags are optional, so very similar to PNP, just bags are included with the option, and have thier own pump.  You can also custom order with bag/pump instead of ramfill.

So the topic is PNP bags, to add secondary pump, or go with factory PNP style.  Secondary pumps fill faster, drain faster and drain completely.  Downside is it is not integrated, and cost is a bit higher. 

Correct and incorrect.  They are not "plug and play", its Centurion's ballast offerring.  That's entirely different than the plug and play concept.  Nothing wrong with it, but its not comparable to any gripes about PNP dump times.

Link to comment
9 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

sorry.. I did add that to my list after I posted... along with MB.. My only issue with gravity fed is that if you have an accident on the water and can no longer plane, you can't drain.. Been on a MB that this happened to and the only way to drain was to idle back to trailer.. put trailer in real deep (truck bed was in water).. pull out far enough to allow tanks to drain.. 

I love the concept of gravity fill..But I don't like all of it.. Got to play with it in a Supreme.. but all of its advantages were washed out by waiting for all the other bags to fill :( would love to see drain pumps on them in case of emergency (bent prop to whatever makes you have to limp back)

I have not seen it yet but supposedly Mr Murphy developed a new one that does allow you fill while in motion also.. which is the other aspect I wish gravity systems were capable of

 

The centurion ram fill does fill in motion and only in motion. Gates open to flood anywhere between 10 to 25 mph, same to drain. You can open the drain gates manually to drain but you are right you would need to be able to get on plane. If I have a bent prop I am heading back slowly to liftnor trailer to fix anyway. 

Link to comment

@Anderson24 fill/drain time is only important on your weekday dawn sessions, where you only have a small window.  Or if you have friends that surf only and friends that wakeboard only.  Fast fill and drain allows you to switch back and forth with ease.  Most of the time it's not that important.   

I think everyone uses presets now, so most have press of a button wake.   It just takes the first outing or two to establish what the preset values will be, from there every outing is push of a button no matter who makes the boat.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
ahopkins22LSV
18 minutes ago, Anderson24 said:

I find it pretty comical, the whole drain time/fill time. I literally have never been in a hurry in either of those situations. Really never even thought about it on the water! When my tanks are filling, I'm talking with my family and friends. Maybe even going over rules and/or proper technique for surfing. No time wasted in my opinion.

Why are we in such a hurry when we are on a boat?

All of this talk about time, etc. You know what is ironic? Watching certain boat manufacturers try to get a clean wakeboard wake, or trying to get a clean wave to surf, spending in excess of 10 minutes for this to happen. "Hey, sit over here! Wait no, back over here! Now freeze!" Well, so glad your tanks were filled before mine. That's the beauty of a Malibu...so what if it takes a few more minutes to fill ballast?...I bet it can form a rideable wave/wake faster than most manufacturers, right off of the trailer, with the push of a button. No time wasted. 

Irony is so entertaining to me. 

:plus1:

Maybe strike up a conversation. Or is there time limits on those too? I really can't believe the discussions that happen recently on here. 

I find the fill time on my fuel tank to be completely unacceptable too. Why in the world didn't Malibu think of a secondary pump that creates a massive siphon on the station pump over riding it to fill five times as fast! Then I would probably have to complain about the overflow though. Ah, new thread, complaints about robust overflow catch thingy here we come!!! :frantic:

Link to comment

I guess for us it's not big of an issue anymore as we have surfgate.  But on our old boat (2011 VTX), changing the list took forever.  The other reason I care also is the lake we are on in MI is relatively small and only takes a minute to get from our hoist to where we ride, heck we could ride right off our dock.  We do putt over and back, but the rear PnP bags are not done by the time we get to the destination and we wait around for 5+ mins.  We also really only take the boat out early morning and after dinner to get nice water, so we aren't on the boat all day where we can leave the ballast filled.  That's something else that I find different from a lot of people on the forum, which is fine though!  Seems like a lot dump their boat in the water and are on it 6-10 hours, then trailer it back up.

When we are waiting to fill we do talk and have a few sips, but if you can have them fill faster why not?  We also listen to music while we wait... uh oh... how dare us play music on the lake.  (oops, wrong thread for that :rofl:)

  • Like 3
Link to comment

@ahopkinsTXi

Not really a new issue, I put secondary pumps on my 2015 malibu, for this reason.  There were numerous threads then about using reversible pumps for rear bags vs. Factory PNP aerators.  

The only sad thing is the 2018 models will be coming out in a couple months and were still talking about it.  

End of the day it's obviously not that important to most people or they would have fixed it by now.   Those that do have a problem with it have solutions.    

I agree with @kerpluxal start wake boarding, then surf, but what if beginner wakeboarder wants a second run?  If you only have a couple hours out, filling/draining/filling/draining having faster pumps is beneficial.  

I guess I am a crazy for wanting to spend my time behind the boat vs. Waiting on pumps... guess what else, I can strike up a conversation or get tips, while a person is riding, it's awesome!  You can do both at the same time, you don't have to have one or the other.  It's all about a life without limits!  

Edited by DarkSide
Link to comment

I have no personal experience with the new Malibu ballast systems, but compared to my tige they don't even seem to compare. Yes it still uses aerator pumps but they drain perefecty, because of the 2 drains into the hard tank, and each bag has 2 vent lines on the top. And it's all 1 1/8" hose. 

You guys are all complaining about quality control of the little things. But what about ballast systems? I personally feel like that is where malibu lacks. 

Link to comment
2 hours ago, kerpluxal said:

and the M center tank fill is a rule 3800 pump.. no reversible pump even comes close to that in speed. The drain is a 1200

http://store.waterpumpsupply.com/runo12vodcbi7.html 

 

What is the capacity of center tank of M? I know it has that big pump but took mine 10 minutes to fill. Literally crawled down laid down and put my hand on pump to see if it was running.  At  rate of 3800gph, it should be filling at 480lbs a minute. 

Wondering if my pump is bad, or has an air leak on suction side

 

 

 

Link to comment
Just now, Fman said:

How can you compare the Malibu system to your Tige' with no experience with the Malibu system????

It takes less than 3.5 mins to fill 1300 lbs of hard tank ballast.  So you can be wakeboarding with advanced/pro level wakeboard wake in less than 3.5 mins.  Most people cant even put there gear on that quickly.  Add another 3.5-5 mins to fill the PnP rear bags for surfing (depending on bag size).

1200 gph pump = 20 gpm

550 lb bag = 66 gallons (3.3 mins)

750 lb bag = 90 gallons (4.5 mins)

You can add 10% for friction loss and some elevation loss, those are approx.

It's definitely not the fastest system on the market, but very reliable.  Aerator pumps can be run dry with no issues.  They are also pretty easy to swap out if they do fail for some reason.

My friends 2014 MB had four different gates fail and get stuck open since he has owned it which requires the boat to be taken out of the water and gate replaced (which is a PIA - I did one on lake powell).  And when this happens it fills up half the boat with ballast everytime you stop the boat.

Maybe this is why Malibu leaves the ballast system alone? it works and it's reliable.

I can't compare, but I can definitely read other people's comments about it and comepare it to my own. 

Just reading all these comments like, bags don't drain completely, no vent lines, etc. 

That is completely true. Why fix something if it still works. I just feel like it's a little behind compared to its competition. 

Link to comment
ahopkins22LSV
3 hours ago, DarkSide said:

@ahopkinsTXi

Not really a new issue, I put secondary pumps on my 2015 malibu, for this reason.  There were numerous threads then about using reversible pumps for rear bags vs. Factory PNP aerators.  

The only sad thing is the 2018 models will be coming out in a couple months and were still talking about it.  

End of the day it's obviously not that important to most people or they would have fixed it by now.   Those that do have a problem with it have solutions.    

I agree with @kerpluxal start wake boarding, then surf, but what if beginner wakeboarder wants a second run?  If you only have a couple hours out, filling/draining/filling/draining having faster pumps is beneficial.  

I guess I am a crazy for wanting to spend my time behind the boat vs. Waiting on pumps... guess what else, I can strike up a conversation or get tips, while a person is riding, it's awesome!  You can do both at the same time, you don't have to have one or the other.  It's all about a life without limits!  

Look I'm all for spending as much time as possible behind the boat. But we are really just splitting hairs here. If 5-7 minutes is cutting it close to your available time then maybe that time slot is too tight to begin with. What if you have an engine impeller fail or something worse?

Yes there are faster systems out there. As soon as Malibu goes to that some other option will become available that is better and the forums will be screaming for those pumps. Or even if Malibu comes out with the fastest most reliable pump next year, within a year or two it won't be and here we go again...

All I'm saying is there is a huge trend here lately to jump all over the tiniest (imo) things when in the grand scheme of things it's not worth stressing about. Life is too short. And yes, I'm including you in that. But I'm trying to be polite. I'm happy you are really happy with your centurion, I really am. I think they are a very nice new boat on the market and the obviously produce a very nice, if not the best surf wave. I spent an hour in one at the boat show here. They have come a long ways! But give it a rest every so often, this is the Malibu forum. 

And yes I know, it's awesome we can discuss all boats. I love boats and love talking about them. It's my life. But these threads get so far off track over the littlest thing and now it sounds like Malibu makes a bayliner when that is so not the case. We all know it. And we all know that all boys have issues. Hell there is a long thread going on ball of spray about Mastercraft touch screen issues. :shocked: say it ain't so right? 

Sorry. Rant over. 

Edited by ahopkinsTXi
  • Like 3
Link to comment

For the record it was not a centurion guy that derailed this thread and turned it into a manufacture against other manufacturers. 85 just had to throw his comment in there about enjoying your ramfill when ramfill or centurion had not even been brought up yet. So blame one of your own. It was only talking about times to fill and drain and giving the poster suggestions or options to add extra ballast at faster times than the factory pnp. 

Link to comment
ahopkins22LSV
5 minutes ago, wheelman said:

For the record it was not a centurion guy that derailed this thread and turned it into a manufacture against other manufacturers. 85 just had to throw his comment in there about enjoying your ramfill when ramfill or centurion had not even been brought up yet. So blame one of your own. It was only talking about times to fill and drain and giving the poster suggestions or options to add extra ballast at faster times than the factory pnp. 

For the record, this thread was way off track before that comment :lol: 

Edited by ahopkinsTXi
  • Like 2
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...