ksdaoski

Wisconsin New Spotter Law Needing Support

130 posts in this topic
9 hours ago, jrvs23 said:

Doesn't the bill state that it can still be up to the local ordinances to decide what is best for "their" body of water. Why would Geneva or anyone else battle the bill as a whole? They could simply put rules in place for them. I know I wouldn't put anyone behind a boat on that lake on a weekend anyway. 

It was anticipated that would be a possibility but the way it is written now does not allow for local ordinances that go against the state law.  I would think this would be an reasonable solution, but I'd hope to keep it the way it is currently.  I don't particularly want to have this discussion at every lake across the state.

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24 minutes ago, onwi said:

It was anticipated that would be a possibility but the way it is written now does not allow for local ordinances that go against the state law.  I would think this would be an reasonable solution, but I'd hope to keep it the way it is currently.  I don't particularly want to have this discussion at every lake across the state.

This is the way it is with every boating law in WI. Each local authority can implement rules that are MORE restrictive than the state law, but not LESS.  

Examples of this include when you can legally tow a skier-wakeboard-whatever. State law is not before sunrise and not after sunset. Many lakes only allow from 10-5 or some other times.

Crazy I know, but that's just the way it is.

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That is crazy.  So are the rules posted at every public access?

Rules are much more standard here in Mi.

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Posted (edited)

On 3/10/2017 at 10:36 AM, RedOwl said:

With all due respect - I believe you are quite wrong. The legislative process wasn't designed for brave legislators to impose their will upon a legislature or the people they represent. Politicians aren't elected to be leaders - they are elected to be representatives in this Republic. It is silly to take a shot at an elected body because you dislike the concept of a proposed amendment. Someone had a different idea - someone wanted to tweak the recipe - and now the bill authors, constituents and sponsors will get to decide if they embrace those changes or not.
We as a people get to decide if we support the changes or not and we are free to offer our voice(s). 

The tweaks have eliminated the vast majority of the desired change that was being requested (i.e. Mirror only sessions-because the majority of the sess are weekends, da) your legislators as usual they opted for optics instead of substance to mollify both sides snd change nothing and keep the status quo, that is the main thing we all voted to change in November and I now fear they will do same in health care, sounds an odd comparison?? I think not and the opposite is naivety.  There objective is to keep their elected posts of power they spent money to achieve 

Edited by granddaddy55

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12 hours ago, braindamage said:

This is the way it is with every boating law in WI. Each local authority can implement rules that are MORE restrictive than the state law, but not LESS.  

Examples of this include when you can legally tow a skier-wakeboard-whatever. State law is not before sunrise and not after sunset. Many lakes only allow from 10-5 or some other times.

Crazy I know, but that's just the way it is.

They specifically asked this question to the legislative council available at the meeting.  Her opinion was that the current bill text did not allow for local ordinances that contradicted the state law. Obviously anything could change.

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8 minutes ago, footndale said:

Anyone hear any updates the AB bill?

 

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2017/proposals/ab100

The Assembly Bill should have a public meeting somewhat soon.  Last estimate I was given is the end of April.  Senator Moulton's office is going to try and provide more of a warning for this meeting than was provided for the Senate meeting.  

The Assembly procedures actually require public comment so there is more of a need for testimony from others this time around.  There are some parties who are going to come out to advocate against the measure.  They are worried about safety.  There will also likely be a some who may try and introduce the life jackets into the discussion (this happened last year as well and didn't gain traction).  

I've reviewed the accident totals from 2011 to 2015 (last 5 available years) for boating accidents that occur when the boat is towing for water sports.  Obviously there is variability from state to state but there is no visible trend that would be used to show that a spotter reduces accidents.   

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Posted (edited)

4 minutes ago, onwi said:

The Assembly Bill should have a public meeting somewhat soon.  Last estimate I was given is the end of April.  Senator Moulton's office is going to try and provide more of a warning for this meeting than was provided for the Senate meeting.  

The Assembly procedures actually require public comment so there is more of a need for testimony from others this time around.  There are some parties who are going to come out to advocate against the measure.  They are worried about safety.  There will also likely be a some who may try and introduce the life jackets into the discussion (this happened last year as well and didn't gain traction).  

I've reviewed the accident totals from 2011 to 2015 (last 5 available years) for boating accidents that occur when the boat is towing for water sports.  Obviously there is variability from state to state but there is no visible trend that would be used to show that a spotter reduces accidents.   

My 40+ years experience, basically says the spotter would just be one more person to see downed skier get hit, if they are going to. It is a driver problem, not a spotter problem.

Is the accident totals available on line some where?

I do have friends ready to go. One works out at the same place as Testin, so hopefully we'll here when the meetings happen.

Edited by footndale

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I had to search for the accident totals broken down by state.  I was provided the numbers from the US Coast Guard.  They put out a report annually that provides boat registration, accident numbers and potential causes that is available online.  In that report they list a nation wide total for accidents during towed water sports.  The USCG broke that number down by state for me.  5 years of data for registrations, total accidents, towing accidents, etc. is way more data than we want to throw in front of everyone.  But I can obviously provide anything you'd like to see.

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@onwi:  I would be very interested in the data, nice work having the USCG supply the data.

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11 hours ago, onwi said:

I had to search for the accident totals broken down by state.  I was provided the numbers from the US Coast Guard.  They put out a report annually that provides boat registration, accident numbers and potential causes that is available online.  In that report they list a nation wide total for accidents during towed water sports.  The USCG broke that number down by state for me.  5 years of data for registrations, total accidents, towing accidents, etc. is way more data than we want to throw in front of everyone.  But I can obviously provide anything you'd like to see.

I also would love to have the data.  It would be useful. I would love to get Michigan to look into a new spotter law.  I just finished a DNR survey on ORV's. At the end was a question asking if the DNR should look into any other sporting. I know its not the law they write rather one they do uphold.  I suggested vitiating the spotter law.  Don't expect anything from them but !  We need to get a state rep to sponsor a change. 

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Please pm me email addresses and I'll send out my spreadsheet. 

@Sixball @Woodski

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Just read through this thread, and you can sort of add Maine to your list. Maine requires a spotter of age 12 or greater, with the exception of skiers being towed through a regulation slalom course. 

The laws there do not mandate a minimum age to drive the boat as long a legal aged guardian is on board, so our 10yr old can drive and I can spot while anyone else is behind the boat. Now it depends on the kid, but my 10yr old drives much better than the "professional" drivers from the camp down the way or the driver from across the way that has already hit multi moored boats while towing people. 

I hope your law gets changed because it really should be up to an individual to decide what is right for them, but no law can protect any of us from the stupid people out there.

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On 4/4/2017 at 8:54 AM, onwi said:

I had to search for the accident totals broken down by state.  I was provided the numbers from the US Coast Guard.  They put out a report annually that provides boat registration, accident numbers and potential causes that is available online.  In that report they list a nation wide total for accidents during towed water sports.  The USCG broke that number down by state for me.  5 years of data for registrations, total accidents, towing accidents, etc. is way more data than we want to throw in front of everyone.  But I can obviously provide anything you'd like to see.

Two schools of thought.  1.  Showing data shows we've done our research and homework on this.  Important to come with a loaded gun.  2.  Distill it down to key, simple, ironclad supportive data that's irrefutable.

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Just now, UWSkier said:

Two schools of thought.  1.  Showing data shows we've done our research and homework on this.  Important to come with a loaded gun.  2.  Distill it down to key, simple, ironclad supportive data that's irrefutable.

The data will be a part of my testimony.  I'm trying to push it into simple graphs that clearly show Wisconsin is not safer than Minnesota.  Going to far beyond that and I'm thinking people's eyes will glass over.  If a legislator wants to know any particular numbers I can provide them. 

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@onwi & @UWSkier:  In addition to the hard facts which would be my approach, perhaps have a story in your back pocket simply to drive the point home if an emotionally driven member has a vote or at least a story to debunk an emotional plea not based in facts or one that contradicts factual evidence.  Good luck.

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So I have not had time to go over the data yet but one thing I would like to see. Numbers of issues say before 10 / 11 AM say over the rest of the day on weekends.  I know on our lake 99% of our deaths from water sports and likely boating accidents have occurred on weekend or holidays and those mid day or later. Many after sundown.  So for skiing I could see a no spotter law even say sunup to 11:00 AM.  After all most skiing is done before the lake is wake filed. Now that may be selfish but living on the lake I cringe watching some of the towing tubs, boards in the mid day to early evenings. But then as I have said I have had three close calls and each of them have been with adult spotters. Not to say they were spotting!    

 

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Posted (edited)

On 4/4/2017 at 8:01 AM, footndale said:

Anyone hear any updates the AB bill?

 

https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/2017/proposals/ab100

The assembly bill will have a public meeting on Tuesday, April 18th.  The hearing will begin between noon and 1 pm.  We will get a more specific time before the meeting.  I hope that this additional advanced notice provides people with enough time to prepare some thoughts and attend the meeting.

Also, please let me know if you will be able to attend.  I will provide some general information to a legislative aid so that they know what to expect.

Edited by onwi

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I have a friend that plans on making it.

 

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I will be seeing Mursau this weekend and I will continue to bend his ear - not that he's an obstacle with this one.

 

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We frequently ski without a spotter.  That said, I cringe at the thought of a neck injury or other serious injury with just one guy/gal in the boat to deal with it.  

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I'm going to be in the minority on this, but despite what any data may show I will still "feel" safer if all the clueless people out there are required to have spotters even if it means I still need to deal with it.  Perhaps if I could have a guarantee that somehow a compliant mirror couldn't be mounted to a Bayliner, SeaRay, FourWinns or any other I/O I'd be more supportive. :)

Mike

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6 minutes ago, onwi said:

Today's meeting went well.  Many speakers present in support and only a few against.  I'll be keeping my eyes open for progress.  The bill needs an open senate floor vote and to progress out of the assembly committee and then an open assembly vote.  There are a couple of legislators in the SE region of Wisconsin who seem to want to make this a more contentious issue, but we are hopeful.

Thank you!

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On 4/18/2017 at 3:57 PM, minnmarker said:

Thank you!

 

On 4/18/2017 at 3:57 PM, minnmarker said:

Who is making it contentious?

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