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2018 F-150 Diesel


hethj7

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2 hours ago, nyryan2001 said:

Agreed. Complete Bs.

I just did a very quick search on ecodiesel towing mpgs.  I didn't pick and choose.  The first two I found were test results from diesel power mag towing a 7000# travel trailer over a 5000 pass and mixed towing and got 19.5 driving 5 mph over posted speed limit.  The next I found was a consumer who towed 6000#s to alaska from Idaho and got 24.  

kerplexal lives in Texas (flat).  I don't doubt his #s a bit.  

Maybe some open-mindedness is needed here.  Just because your 5.0, 5.7, 5.3, etc get 8mpg when towing doesn't mean the ED doesn't get 20.  

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22 hours ago, kerpluxal said:

Well... I have a Diesel Jeep from 2005 and:

  1. It is a VM Motori (not mercedes as so many believe.. while mercedes owned them in this time frame they did not use mercedes engines... the only vehicle that was built on the mercedes platform was the crossfire)
    1. VM Motori was bought by Chrysler in 2000
  2. It is not underpowered (pulls my 23lsv as if it is not back there)
  3. Before I lifted it, it would average above 33 mpg (mostly freeway driving) after lifted and lager tires I cannot state true economy as the odometer is now off.. but computer shows 25 (plus I do not drive as many freeway miles due to work moved closer to home)
    1. Pulling my boat on the freeway I get 18 - 22 mpg... 

"The engine that GM uses in their mid-size trucks is a 2.8 liter labeled "DuraMax".  While Fiat and GM used to are partners on the VM Motori motors, GM was bought out quite a few years ago and the 3.0 EcoDiesel is exclusive to the Fiat family now (at least I know that in the US).  You can only get it in the RAM 1500 and the Grand Cherokee."

In 2003 Penske bought half the stock from Chrysler in 2007 they bought the remaining stock... Then sold 50% to GM...

Fiat bought the penske stock in 2011 and then the stock from GM in 2013...

The 2.8 in the GM vehicles is the same 2.8 in my Jeep... except it now it uses DEF.... same horsepower... same torque... same engine except it is missing the "Duramax" label... GM bought a license to use the VM Motori design...  

I had a 2005 jeep liberty CRD (diesel) for about 7 years and drove it from about 35,000 miles to 170,000 miles, and I had very different results in mine.

Towing

-I originally started towing my 1983 stars and stripes mastercraft with it and never really had a problem.

-I then upgraded the boat to a 1996 sunsetter VLX. This was the beginning of the down fall for the jeep. 

-After picking up the boat and driving it from New Jersey back to Michigan my trans blew. Same trans that was in the dodge ram.

-After the trans rebuild it slowly went down a rode of over heating (about 2 years getting worse each time). After one trip back from a cabin we rented it was 80 deg out and I was running the heat on full blast doing 55 on the highway trying to keep it from overheating the wife looked at me and said your buying a truck this week.

MPG

When I first bought this truck I was getting about 22 bone stock. By the end with mudders (only upgrade) I was getting 17. I heard of people online getting 30 after a tune.

Cold Weather

This thing hated cold weather. It originally comes with ceramic glow plugs which do alright, but around 150k they need to be replaced. The only thing I could find were steel replacements that did not get as hot. Anything below 10 deg it would not start without the block heater and if it was below 0 during the day good luck starting it after work.

Overall

It is a neat little truck (and I mean it feels little compared to my f150) The engine always seemed to have enough power. I always had full confidence I could make it up a hill it was stopping on the way down that scared me. Both my trailers did not have breaks so I always felt like the boat was pushing me around, and I always feared I'd blow a tire and loose the hole thing. Besides the trans and cold temp starting problems this was a good car. (I probably could of gotten the over heating back under control.) Would of been a cool offroad truck I always believed. After towing with both my half ton and my body's 1/2 ton (ecodiesel) I believe any 1/2 ton is a much safer and more comfortable tow vehicle. Obviously that is just my opinion.

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59 minutes ago, tdelandsheer said:

I had a 2005 jeep liberty CRD (diesel) for about 7 years and drove it from about 35,000 miles to 170,000 miles, and I had very different results in mine.

Towing

-I originally started towing my 1983 stars and stripes mastercraft with it and never really had a problem.

-I then upgraded the boat to a 1996 sunsetter VLX. This was the beginning of the down fall for the jeep. 

-After picking up the boat and driving it from New Jersey back to Michigan my trans blew. Same trans that was in the dodge ram.

-After the trans rebuild it slowly went down a rode of over heating (about 2 years getting worse each time). After one trip back from a cabin we rented it was 80 deg out and I was running the heat on full blast doing 55 on the highway trying to keep it from overheating the wife looked at me and said your buying a truck this week.

MPG

When I first bought this truck I was getting about 22 bone stock. By the end with mudders (only upgrade) I was getting 17. I heard of people online getting 30 after a tune.

Cold Weather

This thing hated cold weather. It originally comes with ceramic glow plugs which do alright, but around 150k they need to be replaced. The only thing I could find were steel replacements that did not get as hot. Anything below 10 deg it would not start without the block heater and if it was below 0 during the day good luck starting it after work.

Overall

It is a neat little truck (and I mean it feels little compared to my f150) The engine always seemed to have enough power. I always had full confidence I could make it up a hill it was stopping on the way down that scared me. Both my trailers did not have breaks so I always felt like the boat was pushing me around, and I always feared I'd blow a tire and loose the hole thing. Besides the trans and cold temp starting problems this was a good car. (I probably could of gotten the over heating back under control.) Would of been a cool offroad truck I always believed. After towing with both my half ton and my body's 1/2 ton (ecodiesel) I believe any 1/2 ton is a much safer and more comfortable tow vehicle. Obviously that is just my opinion.

No problems... I have seen reviews all over the place on this...

I can see why you might have issues that I don't... 

I am in southern Texas and it is FLAT ;)

Ii is HOT!!! but all year skiing ;)

  • I do notice a drop in the winter time of 2 - 4 MPGs on the seldom cold days...

I have 160,000 miles on it now with no issues....

My normal tow is 1 mile to ramp.. 1 mile back

I do sometimes tow to my dads which is ~180 - 200 miles (in the hills once I am half way there)...

It fits my purpose of a tow vehicle very well due to my tow range is low...

I do have trailer brakes, the Jeep is lifted, and has airbags in the back....

If I were to tow long distances for at least half the time... I would prefer a bigger vehicle for more room

Not pushing a vehicle but the concept of light weight diesels... not every boat needs a 3/4 ton beast.... depends on your towing needs and boat...

I have been thinking of getting a new Grand Cherokee diesel for the more room... Just having a hard time on letting this one go.... she been good to me :)  

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ahopkins22LSV
15 hours ago, kerpluxal said:

No problems... I have seen reviews all over the place on this...

I can see why you might have issues that I don't... 

I am in southern Texas and it is FLAT ;)

Ii is HOT!!! but all year skiing ;)

  • I do notice a drop in the winter time of 2 - 4 MPGs on the seldom cold days...

I have 160,000 miles on it now with no issues....

My normal tow is 1 mile to ramp.. 1 mile back

I do sometimes tow to my dads which is ~180 - 200 miles (in the hills once I am half way there)...

It fits my purpose of a tow vehicle very well due to my tow range is low...

I do have trailer brakes, the Jeep is lifted, and has airbags in the back....

If I were to tow long distances for at least half the time... I would prefer a bigger vehicle for more room

Not pushing a vehicle but the concept of light weight diesels... not every boat needs a 3/4 ton beast.... depends on your towing needs and boat...

I have been thinking of getting a new Grand Cherokee diesel for the more room... Just having a hard time on letting this one go.... she been good to me :)  

Are you basing your towing mpg off the one mile trip each way? If so that's not accurate at all. I tow just under two miles to our ramp and after a week of commuting to work I range between 16.5-17mpg in my truck after I tow to and from the ramp on Saturday my mileage is about 16. That doesn't mean I get 16 mpg towing. When I go up north and back which is about 400 miles round trip I average about 11. 

I am with @shawndoggy though. A truck that get up to 30 mpg on the highway for commuting is very interesting to me. 

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3 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Are you basing your towing mpg off the one mile trip each way? If so that's not accurate at all. I tow just under two miles to our ramp and after a week of commuting to work I range between 16.5-17mpg in my truck after I tow to and from the ramp on Saturday my mileage is about 16. That doesn't mean I get 16 mpg towing. When I go up north and back which is about 400 miles round trip I average about 11. 

I am with @shawndoggy though. A truck that get up to 30 mpg on the highway for commuting is very interesting to me. 

Right my average tow is only about 60 miles round trip once a week to the lake with the boat, so out of 500 and some miles a tank i couldn't tell you what i get towing. More interested in what the potential could be unloaded for the daily commute and trips. 

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3 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

A truck that get up to 30 mpg on the highway for commuting is very interesting to me. 

Both the Ecodiesel and the baby Duramax are EPA rated right there.  (non towing of course)

I am sure that the Ford, with the weight savings from the amount of aluminum they use, plus the 10 speed transmission, will be rated higher than the competition. 

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ahopkins22LSV
14 minutes ago, RyanB said:

Both the Ecodiesel and the baby Duramax are EPA rated right there.  (non towing of course)

I am sure that the Ford, with the weight savings from the amount of aluminum they use, plus the 10 speed transmission, will be rated higher than the competition. 

Right that is what I was getting at. 

But remember, Fords "weight savings" by using aluminum only get them on par with the rest of the field. But yes it helped compared to their last generation. 

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4 hours ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Are you basing your towing mpg off the one mile trip each way? If so that's not accurate at all. I tow just under two miles to our ramp and after a week of commuting to work I range between 16.5-17mpg in my truck after I tow to and from the ramp on Saturday my mileage is about 16. That doesn't mean I get 16 mpg towing. When I go up north and back which is about 400 miles round trip I average about 11. 

I am with @shawndoggy though. A truck that get up to 30 mpg on the highway for commuting is very interesting to me. 

No.... LOL... I did not state my mileage at all in my comment... However:

On my short tows... I get around 13 mpg... stop and go all the way...

On my long tows I get 18 - 20 depending on wind... traffic... terrain...

On normal usage with 7 miles city and 8 miles of freeway I get 25 (I have lifted and added 2" taller tires... odo is not correct so the mpg is of course lower than actual)

Before when I had a 7 mile city and 30 mile commute "with no traffic.. constant speed" I would average 33 mpg

I would like to add... I am very close to my towing capacity and would not tow a heavier boat with it (I estimated that lake ready  short commutes I am over my towing capacity (estimated weight of boat trailer and gas at 5800lbs)) When I tow long distance.. boat is empty (little to no gas) and putting me below 5500lbs.... 

This is my main vehicle that I use to commute with 80% of the time.... I don't need 2 gas guzzlers for commute and play and I don't need to buy a 3rd vehicle just for me either... If I were tow extreme long distances... I would not use it and borrow my dads F350... as stated before it pulls the same as my brothers ram 1500 (hemi) and I would not use his truck for long distances either... It pulls WAY better than my friend's Navigator...  and I would never buy a Navigator as a tow vehicle after he pulled it.... 

I would have to think my choices again for a tow vehicle if I decide to go to 25LSV or 24 MXZ or even newer 23LSV (for long hauls since they 600lbs heavier than my 2010)... and would probably upgrade to grand cherokee (7200lb towing capacity for the 4x4)... My friend has one and states that he has been getting an average of 28 MPG (I don't know his commute) and tows a camper trailer with it and averages 20...

Dads big F350 actually does well with MPG while towing my boat on freeway (around 18 and don't go faster than 70 or it plummet  quickly) but once you hit city it drops big time....

I honestly believe these little diesels are good thing and have a market niche... They are almost as costly as their big brother to purchase... but are more efficient to operate... as long as your not towing a M235..G23...G25... or a yacht ;) do you actually need a big rig??? I think not :)

 

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2 hours ago, RyanB said:

Both the Ecodiesel and the baby Duramax are EPA rated right there.  (non towing of course)

I am sure that the Ford, with the weight savings from the amount of aluminum they use, plus the 10 speed transmission, will be rated higher than the competition. 

Which is fine, but when you do the math you don't break even until around 100K miles on fuel costs vs original cost difference (Comparing a Hemi running 89 octane to a EcoDiesel and using a 3K premium for the diesel).  and that break even point doesn't take into account any additional maint costs associated with the diesel. (11 quart oil changes vs 7 quart, DEF, ??)

Edited by oldjeep
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ahopkins22LSV
55 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

No.... LOL... I did not state my mileage at all in my comment... However:

On my short tows... I get around 13 mpg... stop and go all the way...

On my long tows I get 18 - 20 depending on wind... traffic... terrain...

On normal usage with 7 miles city and 8 miles of freeway I get 25 (I have lifted and added 2" taller tires... odo is not correct so the mpg is of course lower than actual)

Before when I had a 7 mile city and 30 mile commute "with no traffic.. constant speed" I would average 33 mpg

I would like to add... I am very close to my towing capacity and would not tow a heavier boat with it (I estimated that lake ready  short commutes I am over my towing capacity (estimated weight of boat trailer and gas at 5800lbs)) When I tow long distance.. boat is empty (little to no gas) and putting me below 5500lbs.... 

This is my main vehicle that I use to commute with 80% of the time.... I don't need 2 gas guzzlers for commute and play and I don't need to buy a 3rd vehicle just for me either... If I were tow extreme long distances... I would not use it and borrow my dads F350... as stated before it pulls the same as my brothers ram 1500 (hemi) and I would not use his truck for long distances either... It pulls WAY better than my friend's Navigator...  and I would never buy a Navigator as a tow vehicle after he pulled it.... 

I would have to think my choices again for a tow vehicle if I decide to go to 25LSV or 24 MXZ or even newer 23LSV (for long hauls since they 600lbs heavier than my 2010)... and would probably upgrade to grand cherokee (7200lb towing capacity for the 4x4)... My friend has one and states that he has been getting an average of 28 MPG (I don't know his commute) and tows a camper trailer with it and averages 20...

Dads big F350 actually does well with MPG while towing my boat on freeway (around 18 and don't go faster than 70 or it plummet  quickly) but once you hit city it drops big time....

I honestly believe these little diesels are good thing and have a market niche... They are almost as costly as their big brother to purchase... but are more efficient to operate... as long as your not towing a M235..G23...G25... or a yacht ;) do you actually need a big rig??? I think not :)

 

I know you didn't state that in the post I quoted but you referenced a towing MPG earlier in the thread which is what I was asking about.

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37 minutes ago, oldjeep said:

Which is fine, but when you do the math you don't break even until around 100K miles on fuel costs vs original cost difference (Comparing a Hemi running 89 octane to a EcoDiesel and using a 3K premium for the diesel).  and that break even point doesn't take into account any additional maint costs associated with the diesel. (11 quart oil changes vs 7 quart, DEF, ??)

Does your math assume no resale premium for the diesel tho?  Rational or not, history seems to show that the diesel equipped 2500/3500 trucks hold a lot more value at resale than their gasser brethren.

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3 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Does your math assume no resale premium for the diesel tho?  Rational or not, history seems to show that the diesel equipped 2500/3500 trucks hold a lot more value at resale than their gasser brethren.

There isn't really any evidence yet of increased resale value or even what the longevity is of these little diesels.  And for my uses, I buy new and use a truck up - resale isn't a parameter.

Edited by oldjeep
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7 hours ago, RyanB said:

Both the Ecodiesel and the baby Duramax are EPA rated right there.  (non towing of course)

I am sure that the Ford, with the weight savings from the amount of aluminum they use, plus the 10 speed transmission, will be rated higher than the competition. 

At least it will in the Ford commercial. Like their towing competition where they gave themselves a gear advantage over the other trucks.

 

I know I'm going to get flamed over that comment, but watch the commercials and see for yourself.

 

Edited by MLBurns
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5 hours ago, oldjeep said:

Which is fine, but when you do the math you don't break even until around 100K miles on fuel costs vs original cost difference (Comparing a Hemi running 89 octane to a EcoDiesel and using a 3K premium for the diesel).  and that break even point doesn't take into account any additional maint costs associated with the diesel. (11 quart oil changes vs 7 quart, DEF, ??)

Sorry, I just don't buy that argument.  You completely ignore resale (which I see you addressed in another post, but I don't think it is valid).  Do you also do the match comparing whatever options you choose on the truck?  Electric windows, upgraded stereo, 4x4 leather seats.......all run up the cost of a vehicle.

What is the difference in oil change interval?  On the HD trucks, it is significantly longer than a gasser.  If this is the case (which I haven't looked), that argument is minimized.  And the cost of DEF is so low, in my mind it isn't even worth mentioning.  If someone is going to complain about something that literally is a fraction of a penny per mile, how do they rationalize the cost of a new truck in the first place?

Which brings me to my final point.  For most buyers, there are much more rational decisions to make than buying a new vehicle if it is all about "break even".  Buy something that is used, and drive it until the wheels fall off.

But very few buyers look at purchases rationally (and if you did, would you own a boat?).  They buy something that they like that feels good.  In this case, they will like the fact that they can go 30% (or much more) further than they can on a gasser.  That they only fill up every 8 days instead of every 5 days.  That the digital read out on their computer says 30 MPG instead of 21.....

46 minutes ago, MLBurns said:

At least it will in the Ford commercial. Like their towing competition where they gave themselves a gear advantage over the other trucks.

 

I know I'm going to get flamed over that comment, but watch the commercials and see for yourself.

 

I'm not a Ford fan.  And I know they have a history of cheating in their marketing (like the fact that they have removed things like radios and spare tires to get higher ratings).  Or that they compare an F450 to a RAM 3500 to claim "Best in Class".

But with what will be newer technology in their engine, more gears, and a lighter truck, I will be surprised if they can't legitimately claim best in class on this.

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4 hours ago, shawndoggy said:

 history seems to show that the diesel equipped 2500/3500 trucks hold a lot more value at resale than their gasser brethren.

This is the kind of information I use to my advantage, buy a used gasser.

 

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2 hours ago, MadMan said:

This is the kind of information I use to my advantage, buy a used gasser.

 

+ The modern gassers are more reliable over the course of the life of the engine now. Probably means nothing to the guy that buys new and sells with 60K miles. But for the folks that keep a modern diesel past 100K the stakes become much higher. I know I really enjoyed replacing a set of injectors on a Duramax that was out of warranty. Every penny I saved in fuel went completely down the drain. 

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3 hours ago, MadMan said:

This is the kind of information I use to my advantage, buy a used gasser.

 

The problem wth this strategy is then you are stuck driving a used gasser.   No thanks.  

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16 minutes ago, jjackkrash said:

The problem wth this strategy is then you are stuck driving a used gasser.   No thanks.  

The thing is, it's this kind of mindset that makes my strategy work so well.

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4 minutes ago, MadMan said:

The thing is, it's this kind of mindset that makes my strategy work so well.

Hehe, touche.  

I do watch with some fascination the debate centered on the most "cost effective" $60-80k luxury tow truck used to pull our overpriced water toys and whether diesel versus gas "pencils" over what milage.  The answer is, none of them optioned up really "pencil" in this price range with all the added luxury features.  When I go shopping, its really for the truck I want to drive, not the one that makes the most economic sense.  For me, that truck has a Duramax/Allison combo and a lot of cool features that I just plain want, but don't really need.

 

 

 

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ahopkins22LSV
15 minutes ago, gorilla said:

Ford F-350 getting 18mpg at 70mph towing.......??????? Right...... That thing will barely get 18mpg empty at 70. He's got a unicorn there, never sell it. 

Who made that claim??

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1 minute ago, ahopkinsTXi said:

Who made that claim??

Kerpluxal, post is above. I'm on my phone and didn't want to try and quote him. I always screw it up when using my phone. 

Edited by gorilla
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I have been around a LOT of people towing a LOT of different things. There are only so many BTUs in a gallon of fuel. 

 

I don't care what your argument is. 18mpg at 70mph towing a LSV IS BULLs***. Stop lying to yourself. 

 

Things that have to happen to get a close to accurate mpg number. 

-Round trip of more than 200 miles. ROUND TRIP! Think about why. 

-An accurate odometer. I have the ability to adjust my speedometer through my tuner. It dead on GPS accurate. 

-Fill the tank full. Not just until it clicks. I'm talking until you can see it at the top of the filler neck. 

 

 

This is how you do it. There is no other way. Other than maybe a injector nozzle to improve spray pattern and a Cam I can't squeeze anymore out of my truck. I do have a big truck. With 35s, 4x4, 8000 pounds of weight. Best towing ever with the LSV @65mpg average speed on a 270 mile round trip is 14.2. Winter, no AC running. How do I get average speed? Divide distance by time. 

 

I now have fishing waders on. Armpit high. Insulated. If this s*** keeps up I'll be in a submarine soon. 

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ahopkins22LSV
18 minutes ago, gorilla said:

Kerpluxal, post is above. I'm on my phone and didn't want to try and quote him. I always screw it up when using my phone. 

He is claiming he gets that with a diesel Jeep Liberty....

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