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2018 F-150 Diesel


hethj7

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Just now, 85 Barefoot said:

That's not the point of the truck.  The point of the truck to have a daily driver that gets 30 mpg and has a comparable tow rating to trucks that average 15mpg.

That and market share.

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24 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

That's not the point of the truck.  The point of the truck to have a daily driver that gets 30 mpg and has a comparable tow rating to trucks that average 15mpg.

I understand that but what's the upfront cost of the motor? You'll get some of that back of course when you sell. What's the cost of diesel maintenance verse gas? Diesel is a dime or more where I live. To me a 1/2 ton diesel is a waste but I'm sure people love them. 

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Just now, malibu2004 said:

I understand that but what's the upfront cost of the motor? You'll get some of that back of course when you sell. What's the cost of diesel maintenance verse gas? Diesel is a dime or more where I live. To me a 1/2 ton diesel is a waste but I'm sure people love them. 

In Ram its about a $3,000 upcharge.  DEF fluid consumption is apparently negligible.  Ram is selling way more ecodiesels than they expected and as I recall had to bring another plant online.  

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14 hours ago, Tims said:

 

....

 

And don't forget that GM was responsible for killing the diesel in North America with their Olds diesel offering in the 1980's. 

 

 

Yes, the olds diesel in dad's sedan de ville,  I remember it having absolutely no power, can't remember the mileage,  but remember being told to check the water level at every fuel stop and him having to change the head gasket as often as the oil.

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I didn't factor in the EPA mileage ratings in my thinking....only because for years anything diesel has NEVER been mileage rated in a FORD. But that makes sense now. IF, and I mean IF they can push 30 MPG out of the thing I think it would be amazing for the F150 brand as a whole. I'm not sure I can believe it though. Having owned a 6.7l I KNOW mileage was in the 15-17mpg at best...and that's a modern engine with ALL the emissions controls. I don't forsee a high HP and TQ engine in the 150 that gets THAT type of mileage. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I don't see it. 10 speed and all. In all the pre release material and training , looking at the ratios and what not , the 10 speed will equal 1.5-2.0 mpg better overall and most of that will be related to in-town driving and not FWY driving.

Along the lines of Fuel mileage concerns. the Hybrid f-150 should drop around the same time also...Now that should be interesting when thinking about mileage/ power/towing capability.

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12 minutes ago, Bawshogg said:

I didn't factor in the EPA mileage ratings in my thinking....only because for years anything diesel has NEVER been mileage rated in a FORD. But that makes sense now. IF, and I mean IF they can push 30 MPG out of the thing I think it would be amazing for the F150 brand as a whole. I'm not sure I can believe it though. Having owned a 6.7l I KNOW mileage was in the 15-17mpg at best...and that's a modern engine with ALL the emissions controls. I don't forsee a high HP and TQ engine in the 150 that gets THAT type of mileage. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I don't see it. 10 speed and all. In all the pre release material and training , looking at the ratios and what not , the 10 speed will equal 1.5-2.0 mpg better overall and most of that will be related to in-town driving and not FWY driving.

Along the lines of Fuel mileage concerns. the Hybrid f-150 should drop around the same time also...Now that should be interesting when thinking about mileage/ power/towing capability.

crew cab f-150 4x4 weighs a MINIMUM of 400#s LESS than a grand cherokee 4x4.  The ecodiesel gets 30 mpg in the GC.  New engine  architecture with more cogs?  I think 30 should be the benchmark.

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9 minutes ago, Bawshogg said:

I didn't factor in the EPA mileage ratings in my thinking....only because for years anything diesel has NEVER been mileage rated in a FORD. But that makes sense now. IF, and I mean IF they can push 30 MPG out of the thing I think it would be amazing for the F150 brand as a whole. I'm not sure I can believe it though. Having owned a 6.7l I KNOW mileage was in the 15-17mpg at best...and that's a modern engine with ALL the emissions controls. I don't forsee a high HP and TQ engine in the 150 that gets THAT type of mileage. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I don't see it. 10 speed and all. In all the pre release material and training , looking at the ratios and what not , the 10 speed will equal 1.5-2.0 mpg better overall and most of that will be related to in-town driving and not FWY driving.

Along the lines of Fuel mileage concerns. the Hybrid f-150 should drop around the same time also...Now that should be interesting when thinking about mileage/ power/towing capability.

You won't see high HP.  The 3.0 will almost certainly be under 275 HP.  But you will see higher torque (it is a diesel) and I don't think Ford would bring it to market with less than a 30 MPG EPA highway rating.  They have to in order to beat the EcoDiesel.

This truck is not about being able to tow more than others.  It will be focused to address CAFE and marketed to people who never tow, or when they do, they tow a smallish boat/atv/utility trailer.

150/1500 series trucks have taken the place of a sedan for many consumers.  Most of these trucks will never tow anything (or go off-road).  But they will be a daily driver and do highway runs.  With a 30 MPG rating, they will steal even more buyers from sedans and crossovers.

First EcoDiesel.  Then Colorado/Canyon with a diesel.  Now F150.  You will see more diesel in the future.

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That's what i would like to see more 1/2 ton truck options that can tow as well as a v8 but with upper 20's mpg unloaded. For the average guy that never tows, or tows sub 6000 pounds occasionally and DD's a truck. If you tow heavy and often jump up to a 3/4 ton easy as that. There is no ECO in an ECOboost.   

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7 minutes ago, 85 Barefoot said:

crew cab f-150 4x4 weighs a MINIMUM of 400#s LESS than a grand cherokee 4x4.  The ecodiesel gets 30 mpg in the GC.  New engine  architecture with more cogs?  I think 30 should be the benchmark.

 

I think you would have to admit that a Grand Cherokee has a bit better aerodynamics than any 1/2 ton pickup

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11 minutes ago, RyanB said:

First EcoDiesel.  Then Colorado/Canyon with a diesel.  Now F150.  You will see more diesel in the future.

First EcoDiesel was not GM.... It was Jeep in 2005 with the Liberty and Cherokee.. Then they brought it out again in 2014 along with the ram 1500 ecodiesel.. I am not sure what year gm introduced their ecodiesel... but it is not a gm engine.. it is the same VM Motori that is introduced by Chrysler in the 2005 Jeeps.... 

If your pulling a 23 LSV or similar weighted boat.. these vehicles are perfect for it :)

EDIT My mistake... misread your post... first was ecodiesel... then the GM.. however..GM uses the same 3.0 in their trucks as the Chrysler products... 

 

 

Edited by kerpluxal
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I am in no way against any of this AT ALL. I want to see it happen, innovation pushes the market to a better product......and higher prices as we have seen lately. 

Sometimes its hard to wrap your head around all the DIFFERENT market sectors. I see lots and lots of trucks ever single day, and the majority of them are used AS TRUCKS. But I don't disagree that it has become a fashion statement for many to own a crew cab truck. With that being said a higher mileage diesel could be just what the F series needs to keep up with the EPA regulations.

It does seem strange to me how crazy expensive new trucks have gotten and the feverish appetite that continues for 70k dollar trucks. I mean MAN! some people are financing these things out for up to 9 years now with 900 -1200 dollar payments a month.  I remember when I was terrified of a 5 year loan on a rig that was 25k.

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43 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

First EcoDiesel was not GM.... It was Jeep in 2005 with the Liberty and Cherokee.. Then they brought it out again in 2014 along with the ram 1500 ecodiesel.. I am not sure what year gm introduced their ecodiesel... but it is not a gm engine.. it is the same VM Motori that is introduced by Chrysler in the 2005 Jeeps.... 

If your pulling a 23 LSV or similar weighted boat.. these vehicles are perfect for it :)

EDIT My mistake... misread your post... first was ecodiesel... then the GM.. however..GM uses the same 3.0 in their trucks as the Chrysler products... 

 

 

Not to nit-pick, but.....

The diesel that Chrysler used in Jeeps (I thought it was around 2007) was a Mercedes.  And it was not a good one.  Underpowered in the real world, underwhelming in MPG, and couldn't meet emissions regulations.

The engine that GM uses in their mid-size trucks is a 2.8 liter labeled "DuraMax".  While Fiat and GM used to are partners on the VM Motori motors, GM was bought out quite a few years ago and the 3.0 EcoDiesel is exclusive to the Fiat family now (at least I know that in the US).  You can only get it in the RAM 1500 and the Grand Cherokee.

Either way, I am excited about these engines.  I have a 3500 RAM that I use to tow my RV (and boat on long trips), and a Yukon XL Denali with the 6.2 that I use when going with the RV or on shorter trips.  I would love to see the 3.0 EcoDiesel go into a full size SUV.  It wouldn't compete with the power of the 6.2, but I would take that trade off for good MPG.

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1 hour ago, RyanB said:

Not to nit-pick, but.....

The diesel that Chrysler used in Jeeps (I thought it was around 2007) was a Mercedes.  And it was not a good one.  Underpowered in the real world, underwhelming in MPG, and couldn't meet emissions regulations.

The engine that GM uses in their mid-size trucks is a 2.8 liter labeled "DuraMax".  While Fiat and GM used to are partners on the VM Motori motors, GM was bought out quite a few years ago and the 3.0 EcoDiesel is exclusive to the Fiat family now (at least I know that in the US).  You can only get it in the RAM 1500 and the Grand Cherokee.

Either way, I am excited about these engines.  I have a 3500 RAM that I use to tow my RV (and boat on long trips), and a Yukon XL Denali with the 6.2 that I use when going with the RV or on shorter trips.  I would love to see the 3.0 EcoDiesel go into a full size SUV.  It wouldn't compete with the power of the 6.2, but I would take that trade off for good MPG.

"The diesel that Chrysler used in Jeeps (I thought it was around 2007) was a Mercedes.  And it was not a good one.  Underpowered in the real world, underwhelming in MPG, and couldn't meet emissions regulations."

Well... I have a Diesel Jeep from 2005 and:

  1. It is a VM Motori (not mercedes as so many believe.. while mercedes owned them in this time frame they did not use mercedes engines... the only vehicle that was built on the mercedes platform was the crossfire)
    1. VM Motori was bought by Chrysler in 2000
  2. It is not underpowered (pulls my 23lsv as if it is not back there)
  3. Before I lifted it, it would average above 33 mpg (mostly freeway driving) after lifted and lager tires I cannot state true economy as the odometer is now off.. but computer shows 25 (plus I do not drive as many freeway miles due to work moved closer to home)
    1. Pulling my boat on the freeway I get 18 - 22 mpg... 

"The engine that GM uses in their mid-size trucks is a 2.8 liter labeled "DuraMax".  While Fiat and GM used to are partners on the VM Motori motors, GM was bought out quite a few years ago and the 3.0 EcoDiesel is exclusive to the Fiat family now (at least I know that in the US).  You can only get it in the RAM 1500 and the Grand Cherokee."

In 2003 Penske bought half the stock from Chrysler in 2007 they bought the remaining stock... Then sold 50% to GM...

Fiat bought the penske stock in 2011 and then the stock from GM in 2013...

The 2.8 in the GM vehicles is the same 2.8 in my Jeep... except it now it uses DEF.... same horsepower... same torque... same engine except it is missing the "Duramax" label... GM bought a license to use the VM Motori design...  

Edited by kerpluxal
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@kerpluxal

12 minutes ago, kerpluxal said:

"The diesel that Chrysler used in Jeeps (I thought it was around 2007) was a Mercedes.  And it was not a good one.  Underpowered in the real world, underwhelming in MPG, and couldn't meet emissions regulations."

Well... I have a Diesel Jeep from 2005 and:

  1. It is a VM Motori (not mercedes as so many believe.. while mercedes owned them in this time frame they did not use mercedes engines... the only vehicle that was built on the mercedes platform was the crossfire)
    1. VM Motori was bought by Chrysler in 2000
  2. It is not underpowered (pulls my 23lsv as if it is not back there)
  3. Before I lifted it, it would average above 33 mpg (mostly freeway driving) after lifted and lager tires I cannot state true economy as the odometer is now off.. but computer shows 25 (plus I do not drive as many freeway miles due to work moved closer to home)
    1. Pulling my boat on the freeway I get 18 - 22 mpg... 

"The engine that GM uses in their mid-size trucks is a 2.8 liter labeled "DuraMax".  While Fiat and GM used to are partners on the VM Motori motors, GM was bought out quite a few years ago and the 3.0 EcoDiesel is exclusive to the Fiat family now (at least I know that in the US).  You can only get it in the RAM 1500 and the Grand Cherokee."

In 2003 Penske bought half the stock from Chrysler in 2007 they bought the remaining stock... Then sold 50% to GM...

Fiat bought the penske stock in 2011 and then the stock from GM in 2013...

The 2.8 in the GM vehicles is the same 2.8 in my Jeep... except it now it uses DEF.... same horsepower... same torque... same engine except it is missing the "Duramax" label... GM bought a license to use the VM Motori design...  

Do you have a Grand Cherokee or a Liberty?

Grand Cherokee added diesel (and it was a 3.0 Mercedes) in 2007.

http://www.autotrader.com/car-reviews/2005-2010-jeep-grand-cherokee-used-car-review-190947

Between 2005 and 2010, the Jeep Grand Cherokee offers five different engine choices. Base Laredo models feature a 210-horsepower 3.7-liter V6, with a 4.7-liter V8 as optional. The 4.7-liter engine is standard on the Limited trim and its horsepower varies over the years from 235 hp in 2005 to 305 hp after 2008. The 5.7-liter HEMI V8 puts out 330 horsepower (that figure jumps to 357 in 2009) and is standard in Overland models and optional on the Limited. A 3.0-liter diesel engine borrowed from Mercedes-Benz makes a brief appearance between 2007 and 2009. This engine produces 215 horsepower but has a whopping 375 lb-ft of torque; the not-intended for off-road use SRT-8 trim possesses a massive 6.1-liter HEMI V8 good for 420 horsepower.

Fuel economy for the Grand Cherokee is far from spectacular, with the V6 engine offering figures around 16 mpg city and 20 mpg highway, and the 4.7-liter V8 barely breaking 14/19 mpg. The 5.7-liter HEMI offers nearly identical fuel economy as the 4.7-liter, give or take 1 mpg. The 3.0-liter diesel engine delivers the best fuel economy at 18 mpg city and 23 mpg highway, while the SRT-8 turns in the worst numbers of 11/14 mpg.

 

The 2.8 VM Motors was put in a Liberty.

http://www.trucktrend.com/cool-trucks/1104dp-buying-a-used-jeep-liberty-crd/

The Jeep is powered by a VM Motori 2.8L inline-four engine with common-rail injection and backed by Chrysler’s 545RFE automatic transmission. The short-lived Liberty CRD was only offered for the ’05 and ’06 model years, and due to emissions regulations, it wasn’t sold in California or New York (the two most populated states). Despite the short production run, and amidst many car experts giving them less-than-satisfactory reviews, the people still chose dieseland Chrysler sold every unit it produced.

 

Your MPG are WAY above any report I have ever seen.  I think it is great if your Jeep gets that mileage and pulls your LSV that well.  I personally don't like the way my Yukon XL tows my LSV, and would be very hesitant to pull it was a Jeep.

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1 hour ago, RyanB said:

@kerpluxal

Do you have a Grand Cherokee or a Liberty?

Grand Cherokee added diesel (and it was a 3.0 Mercedes) in 2007.

http://www.autotrader.com/car-reviews/2005-2010-jeep-grand-cherokee-used-car-review-190947

Between 2005 and 2010, the Jeep Grand Cherokee offers five different engine choices. Base Laredo models feature a 210-horsepower 3.7-liter V6, with a 4.7-liter V8 as optional. The 4.7-liter engine is standard on the Limited trim and its horsepower varies over the years from 235 hp in 2005 to 305 hp after 2008. The 5.7-liter HEMI V8 puts out 330 horsepower (that figure jumps to 357 in 2009) and is standard in Overland models and optional on the Limited. A 3.0-liter diesel engine borrowed from Mercedes-Benz makes a brief appearance between 2007 and 2009. This engine produces 215 horsepower but has a whopping 375 lb-ft of torque; the not-intended for off-road use SRT-8 trim possesses a massive 6.1-liter HEMI V8 good for 420 horsepower.

Fuel economy for the Grand Cherokee is far from spectacular, with the V6 engine offering figures around 16 mpg city and 20 mpg highway, and the 4.7-liter V8 barely breaking 14/19 mpg. The 5.7-liter HEMI offers nearly identical fuel economy as the 4.7-liter, give or take 1 mpg. The 3.0-liter diesel engine delivers the best fuel economy at 18 mpg city and 23 mpg highway, while the SRT-8 turns in the worst numbers of 11/14 mpg.

 

The 2.8 VM Motors was put in a Liberty.

http://www.trucktrend.com/cool-trucks/1104dp-buying-a-used-jeep-liberty-crd/

The Jeep is powered by a VM Motori 2.8L inline-four engine with common-rail injection and backed by Chrysler’s 545RFE automatic transmission. The short-lived Liberty CRD was only offered for the ’05 and ’06 model years, and due to emissions regulations, it wasn’t sold in California or New York (the two most populated states). Despite the short production run, and amidst many car experts giving them less-than-satisfactory reviews, the people still chose dieseland Chrysler sold every unit it produced.

 

Your MPG are WAY above any report I have ever seen.  I think it is great if your Jeep gets that mileage and pulls your LSV that well.  I personally don't like the way my Yukon XL tows my LSV, and would be very hesitant to pull it was a Jeep.

The 2.8 VM Motors was put in a Liberty.

Yes I have the Liberty... It pulls better than a Ram 1500 but not like a true heavy weight 3/4 ton diesel truck (but none of the ecodiesel/1/2 ton/suvs will never compare).

My friend has pulled my boat with his navigator and as a passenger I could fell the boat back there... He pulled with my Jeep and was shocked in the difference (pulling power/stability of the vehicle) I will admit that besides the lift kit, I added airbags... other than that it is stock...

 

 

"Your MPG are WAY above any report I have ever seen.  I think it is great if your Jeep gets that mileage and pulls your LSV that well.  I personally don't like the way my Yukon XL tows my LSV, and would be very hesitant to pull it was a Jeep."

My MPG are inline with everybody that I have talked to on Forums.. I know of one other one in my area and he lives right down the street from me (weird coincidence since they are hard to come by) and he greats mileage too... Terrain and type of driving have the biggest inputs on the average MPG (hilly conditions/city/freeway)

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@kerpluxal, we are pretty well off on a tangent, so I think this will be my last comment.  The 2.8 in the 10 year old Jeeps, and the new Colorado / Canyon (however closely they might be related), are a fair amount less powerful than the 3.0 EcoDiesel in the RAM.  And has two less cylinders than it as well.  The new Ford engine will likely be competitive with, and targeting RAM, not a 10 year old Jeep Liberty, and probably not the Chevy Colorado.  

In regards to the MPG, I have no first hand experience of the 2.8.  Fuelly has 64 vehicles, and has tracked almost 2,000,000 miles for the 05 and 06 Liberty.  They show average MPG as about 22 MPG over the course of those 2,000,000 miles.

http://www.fuelly.com/car/jeep/liberty?engineconfig_id=229&bodytype_id=&submodel_id=

For whatever reason, you do considerably better than that, which is awesome.  

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I love the idea of 1/2 ton diesels.  I test drove a Ram ED and it was a sweet ride.  I just couldn't justify paying the price they wanted.  To be fair it was right after they came out and supply was nonexistent.  I'm very happy with my F150EB and won't be looking again for a couple more years but I already can't wait to test drive all the trucks coming out   

 

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I recently bought a new F-150 ecoboost and am happy with it so far, am getting about 3mpg average better than my 2014 F-150 v8 I had before.  The diesel interests me but not enough that warrants paying a premium for it.

@kerpluxal....post up a picture of your liberty towing your lsv.....this I gotta see!

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What does, for example, a 4x4 Crew King Ranch F-150 go for?  It seems like they were priced pretty close to a Chevy 2500 Crewcab LTZ with a Duramax when I was looking in 2013.  That just doesn't make any sense to me.   A 2500 (or an F250) is so much more truck its ridiculous to me if they are in similar price ranges. 

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13 hours ago, Bawshogg said:

I didn't factor in the EPA mileage ratings in my thinking....only because for years anything diesel has NEVER been mileage rated in a FORD. But that makes sense now. IF, and I mean IF they can push 30 MPG out of the thing I think it would be amazing for the F150 brand as a whole. I'm not sure I can believe it though. Having owned a 6.7l I KNOW mileage was in the 15-17mpg at best...and that's a modern engine with ALL the emissions controls. I don't forsee a high HP and TQ engine in the 150 that gets THAT type of mileage. I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but I don't see it. 10 speed and all. In all the pre release material and training , looking at the ratios and what not , the 10 speed will equal 1.5-2.0 mpg better overall and most of that will be related to in-town driving and not FWY driving.

Along the lines of Fuel mileage concerns. the Hybrid f-150 should drop around the same time also...Now that should be interesting when thinking about mileage/ power/towing capability.

 

What motor are they going to hybrid? I will venture to guess the F150 diesel will get 31 MPG and 21-22 MPG..

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5 hours ago, skurfer said:

 

What motor are they going to hybrid? I will venture to guess the F150 diesel will get 31 MPG and 21-22 MPG..

Nope.  Not going to happen.  Towing a heavy LSV you won't see anywhere close to 21-22mpg.

 

My guess would be very low teens.  A diesel that size is going to be working hard to move twice the mass.  (truck + boat + trailer)

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6 hours ago, jjackkrash said:

What does, for example, a 4x4 Crew King Ranch F-150 go for?  It seems like they were priced pretty close to a Chevy 2500 Crewcab LTZ with a Duramax when I was looking in 2013.  That just doesn't make any sense to me.   A 2500 (or an F250) is so much more truck its ridiculous to me if they are in similar price ranges. 

That's exactly how I ended up in my LTZ diesel.  A loaded up 1500 or F150 was only a couple thousand less.  At that point I decided to make the jump to 3/4 ton.

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34 minutes ago, Big Jay D said:

"I get 18-22 towing my LSV."

 

What ever you folks decide to do, don't take fuel economy recommendations from this guy. You will be very disappointed.

Agreed. Complete Bs.

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