Passive draining through the vent lines

[Kojak]

On 9/30/2016 at 9:00 AM, Fman said:

It would be very easy to add one of these ball valves to each vent line.  I did this on my last boat with bow bag for the same problem you are having.  It is a manual solution but would definitely help the problem.

https://www.wakemakers.com/pvc-ball-valve.html

I did this on the vent lines on both rear bags.  Works great.

[AJwakedevil]

On 9/30/2016 at 10:31 AM, Ndawg12 said:

Or http://www.lowes.com/pd/AMERICAN-VALVE-1-in-PVC-Sch-40-Female-In-Line-Ball-Valve/3351078 and install it today.

Yup, used these on my line that was passively leaking. Fixed er right up. Sure its manual and sucks, but doesnt suck as hard as loosing weight and not knowing why your wave is way off until you open the rear hatch

[dannyjledger]

I have the same passive draining issue on a 2016 22 VLX.  I had 550lbs PNP sacks that worked great.  I now have 750lbs PNP sacks that won't fill to more than about 80% before they start to leak/drain.  I added an autovent line off the sacks and split the vent line via the through hull with a “Y” connect using this kit from Wakemakers:
https://www.wakemakers.com/malibu-autovent-upgrade-kit.html

I thought this would solve the problem as I moved the vent line up very high in the gunnel.  However, I’m still seeing the leaking and now want to try the ball vale as a manual workaround.  
Does anyone have any pictures of where they installed the ball valve?  I’m not sure exactly what hose line to install it on either.  Or if I need more than one ball valve per line.  Wish there was a diagram somewhere that showed the ballast plumbing and water flow. 

[granddaddy55]

I use aluminum folding boat plugs on rears , I fold them towards bow to avoid edges of  hinge pointing forward towards rider in water

Cheap and works great, only place water can come out is the plumbing upside down vent/trap  and the finger hole on lever almost guarantees you won’t lose them overboard

when all you guys were upgrading to the vents last two years, I went this direction after axis owners before vents posted this at the time the upgrades were posting for those owners who wanted that solution

I also use dripless water system kinetic vents for the sacs . So $3-5 times two plugs plus $8-15 per bag top kinetic vent = $14-$25 per rear locker and works perfect, a little dribble from kinetic vent white filling or sometimes a tiny bit after full, but bag stays TIGHT! 

Since we list almost all the time snd refuce greatly opposite locker sac,   we are only plugging the full locker surf side, bought way to many plugs now that I only plug one rear and not front .  Even when we did plug the front sac drain and shared vent, water forced it’s way out of the plumbing upside down trap vent, so over time that one went down , a lot of force in that mushroom 950 when nose in air so water forces out and bilge runs a lot . 

And when you try to empty but forget the plugs, no worries as the rock solid aeriator pumps will run with no damage until you figure it out, some water may be forced out the trap until then

the kinetic vents are tall  but even with my 850 rears it dies not touch or impair the top, it comes about 1inch short of top of transom 

Edited April 9, 2018 by granddaddy55

[MLA]

You have 3 possible routes the passive draining can take. Step 1 is to identify which routes, and it can be more then 1 and all 3, the passive draining is taking. Each part of the plumbing might have a different fix for the passive draining. 

[Slurpee]

If you feel like a little DIY project, then what I've done on my vent lines for the last 16 years is add a normally closed solenoid valve.

Like this one here.

I wire it up to the power for my fill pump.  Now when the bag is filling the vent line is open.  When the bag is static or draining the vent line is closed.  Helps the pump draw a vacuum and evacuate the water as well when draining.

If you're running a reversible pump like me then you'll also need to go get a nice diode like a 1N4934 into the power line for the valve so that it only gets power when the pump is running in one direction (fill).

From a maintenance stand point I have found that every 18-24 months I need to undo a few screws and disassemble the valve and wipe down the seal to get the lake crud off it.  I have to do that with my lawn sprinkler valves as well since I water out of the lake.  Just slime and crud gets on there eventually.  Anyways, also the springs in the valves aren't always the best quality.  YMMV.  So I either replace them when they wear out after 2-3 years or I just put the right stainless spring in there from the beginning.

[Chia]

1 hour ago, Slurpee said:

If you feel like a little DIY project, then what I've done on my vent lines for the last 16 years is add a normally closed solenoid valve.

Like this one here.

I wire it up to the power for my fill pump.  Now when the bag is filling the vent line is open.  When the bag is static or draining the vent line is closed.  Helps the pump draw a vacuum and evacuate the water as well when draining.

If you're running a reversible pump like me then you'll also need to go get a nice diode like a 1N4934 into the power line for the valve so that it only gets power when the pump is running in one direction (fill).

From a maintenance stand point I have found that every 18-24 months I need to undo a few screws and disassemble the valve and wipe down the seal to get the lake crud off it.  I have to do that with my lawn sprinkler valves as well since I water out of the lake.  Just slime and crud gets on there eventually.  Anyways, also the springs in the valves aren't always the best quality.  YMMV.  So I either replace them when they wear out after 2-3 years or I just put the right stainless spring in there from the beginning.

i am thinking of ordering these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/352134900932?ViewItem=&item=352134900932

[Slurpee]

11 minutes ago, Chia said:

i am thinking of ordering these: https://www.ebay.com/itm/352134900932?ViewItem=&item=352134900932

Sure. That’ll do the job I think. I’ve only ever used that one style so it’ll be good to get some more experiences. Just make sure to figure out your fittings and how you’ll mount it first. 

[Chia]

4 hours ago, Slurpee said:

If you feel like a little DIY project, then what I've done on my vent lines for the last 16 years is add a normally closed solenoid valve.

Like this one here.

I wire it up to the power for my fill pump.  Now when the bag is filling the vent line is open.  When the bag is static or draining the vent line is closed.  Helps the pump draw a vacuum and evacuate the water as well when draining.

If you're running a reversible pump like me then you'll also need to go get a nice diode like a 1N4934 into the power line for the valve so that it only gets power when the pump is running in one direction (fill).

From a maintenance stand point I have found that every 18-24 months I need to undo a few screws and disassemble the valve and wipe down the seal to get the lake crud off it.  I have to do that with my lawn sprinkler valves as well since I water out of the lake.  Just slime and crud gets on there eventually.  Anyways, also the springs in the valves aren't always the best quality.  YMMV.  So I either replace them when they wear out after 2-3 years or I just put the right stainless spring in there from the beginning.

one more thing, why do i need the diode? The solenoid valve will be wired to the side of the rocker switch that fills the bag. When the rocker is switched the other way there won't be any power going to the solenoid...amiright?

[Slurpee]

26 minutes ago, Chia said:

one more thing, why do i need the diode? The solenoid valve will be wired to the side of the rocker switch that fills the bag. When the rocker is switched the other way there won't be any power going to the solenoid...amiright?

If you’re talking about regular aerator pumps then you are correct and no diode is needed.

If you have reversible pumps then the same two wires conduct in either switch position. Just in opposite directions. So if you tap off them with a reversible pump, then you need to block one direction. 

[Nitrousbird]

I have a passive draining issue with my port locker and under seat bag.  Reversible pumps.  All through the vent.

I don't like capping off my vents and manual valves are for the birds. I bought 40' of hose for the vents...I'm going to try running they far and high up the gunwales and then back to see if that helps. 

I want them all full/tight at all times. Bow and midship bags stay full and oddly the starboard locker doesn't drain much if at all (depends on the day).  I do slightly list to port with a surf device. 

[Chia]

22 minutes ago, Nitrousbird said:

I have a passive draining issue with my port locker and under seat bag.  Reversible pumps.  All through the vent.

I don't like capping off my vents and manual valves are for the birds. I bought 40' of hose for the vents...I'm going to try running they far and high up the gunwales and then back to see if that helps. 

I want them all full/tight at all times. Bow and midship bags stay full and oddly the starboard locker doesn't drain much if at all (depends on the day).  I do slightly list to port with a surf device. 

I fill and drain thru the same hole in the bottom of the boat and don't have any leakage that way and with the solenoid valves in the vent lines, i am not expecting to lose any water that way either.

[minnmarker]

Just put the drain ports in places above the bag tops.  Above the rub rail and forward for the rear bags.  Well placed and they look good. For the bow bag and center bag combo vent just under the observer windshield worked for me.  No draining. No valves although the solenoid valves sound like a good idea.

[MLA]

Hard to do on a plug-n-play equipped boat other ballast equipped boat where shallow tanks or sacs are replaced with tall custom or semi-custom sacs. 

Building from scratch, we have a lot more flexibility to prevent the predicted. 

[Nitrousbird]

On ‎4‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 6:13 PM, Chia said:

I fill and drain thru the same hole in the bottom of the boat and don't have any leakage that way and with the solenoid valves in the vent lines, i am not expecting to lose any water that way either.

I don't have any leakage from the drain side (I drain above the rub rail).  It is all vent draining.  Solenoid valves are another point of failure - I've already had to replace multiple check valves for failing.  I'll consider that only if running my 40' of vent line doesn't fix the problem, which I'm hoping it will. 

[granddaddy55]

They say the length is the key to adequate back pressure 

I redid all of my short bottom drain and bottom vent lines to route to stern or bow snd then loop back to opposite stern or bow ,2” and 1 foot lengths increased to 6 foot snd 5 foot helped some with passive but mainly took bind off my oversized 850’s in my small lockers at the drain snd vent ports, I was creating leaks at those  seals and ruining sacs necessitating early replacement 

my bilge runs much less now, mainly I think fir water forced out of the plumbing trap air vents 

plumbing renovations are s pain , just plug it and be done !

Edited April 10, 2018 by granddaddy55