2017 LSV 23 - Wetsounds Stereo

[IXFE]

Sounds like I'm gonna have to go back and sample the goods with my iPhone volume turned all the way up. I'll try this on the water underway. Kinda would like to do this on a boat with the four Rev8's, but my dealer doesn't have one. 

[teamerickson]

I went down I tried it again with my phone at max volume. Definitely louder. It doesn't get super loud but I don't think I'd want it to go louder. 

I also felt some empty harness behind the amp board near the viper black box. I'm not 100% sure but I bet the wire leads from the head unit are there. Sub, towers. If that's true, and you can tap into those, zone control of the head unit should be maintained with after market stuff. 

Edited September 4, 2016 by teamerickson

[mrnate450r]

I priced out all the components I would want. SD amps, 1 pair of Rev 10s, XXX sub, XS cabin speakers, and a WS420BT. Retail is just under $7k. Surely I could have that installed and tuned for less than $10k. 

[Stevo]

41 minutes ago, mrnate450r said:

I priced out all the components I would want. SD amps, 1 pair of Rev 10s, XXX sub, XS cabin speakers, and a WS420BT. Retail is just under $7k. Surely I could have that installed and tuned for less than $10k. 

I'm sure the factory set up will be good for the masses.

I did the same yesterday with wetsounds/ exile and JL, all stand alone and mix and match and found the same . And that was retail internet prices before any discounts.

[David]

Pertaining to comments made by IXFE on the bass performance in the 2017 24 MXZ, I have some observations....

The cosmetics on the milled grill/vent is awesome. But the vent isn't as acoustically transparent as it could be. The vent open surface area should be larger, although the pattern has to conceal the fiberglass cut edges. When the woofer's radiating surface area is reduced via the vent, and the sub driver is not direct radiating because the baffle is not sealed against the open listening area, there is no question you are losing bass energy. With a few minor modifications this is correctable.

It's a non-issue on the Malibu, per the photo, because that subwoofer is unobstructed and fully direct radiating. So with the identical sub and power, the BU sub is likely to perform better.  

[borris]

Is $10K the list Malibu price?  Wouldn't one expect 25% or so off of that?

[teamerickson]

With one pair of rev8 it's about 8500. 

[Fman]

18 hours ago, SimonWS said:

The swivel bases mount directly to the shelf bracket on G3.5 tower.  The tower speakers are direct mount as standard (can't swivel), then swivels are additional option.  Both of those bolt directly to the shelf.

I am confused, why would they still use the shelf mounts when the speakers can be mounted directly to the tower with a swivel and bracket?  Please see the pic attached of my 2013 VLX, imo such a cleaner looking install.

So my question would be, how much extra on top of the $10,200 would I need to spend to get the speaker mount to look like this?

[shawndoggy]

I think you'd spend less because you'd delete about 4000 worth of rev 8s and amp and then add 1 pair rev10s (say 1200 street value) one pair of double mounts ($450?) and one tower amp to power them ($500 for JL 750/1). Say another 200 for install bits and wherever you are gonna need to tap into that factory harness. 

@SimonWS what will we need to do to tap the factory harness. Is it as easy as something like this?

https://www.google.com/search?q=two+wire+to+rca+adapter&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS691CH698&hl=en-US&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjXotbOhPbOAhVYwGMKHYRuBZUQ_AUICSgC&biw=320&bih=492#imgrc=ckn-qFO9kd1PgM%3A

 

[IXFE]

1 hour ago, David said:

Pertaining to comments made by IXFE on the bass performance in the 2017 24 MXZ, I have some observations....

The cosmetics on the milled grill/vent is awesome. But the vent isn't as acoustically transparent as it could be. The vent open surface area should be larger, although the pattern has to conceal the fiberglass cut edges. When the woofer's radiating surface area is reduced via the vent, and the sub driver is not direct radiating because the baffle is not sealed against the open listening area, there is no question you are losing bass energy. With a few minor modifications this is correctable.

It's a non-issue on the Malibu, per the photo, because that subwoofer is unobstructed and fully direct radiating. So with the identical sub and power, the BU sub is likely to perform better.  

Are you referring to this photo?  I don't understand. In your main paragraph you say it's flawed but could be fixed, but neglect to tell us how.

But in the last paragraph you say it's a non-issue on the Malibu... Huh?? David, that pic was taken from the Malibu I demo'd. 

please clarify...

[wakebrdr94]

1 hour ago, Fman said:

I am confused, why would they still use the shelf mounts when the speakers can be mounted directly to the tower with a swivel and bracket?  Please see the pic attached of my 2013 VLX, imo such a cleaner looking install.

So my question would be, how much extra on top of the $10,200 would I need to spend to get the speaker mount to look like this?

The shelf mounts are actually better in case someone has to remove the tower hoop for garage clearance

[TallRedRider]

@IXFE, what songs do you like to test your system? I saw 'Justin' on the screen, and had a good laugh, thinking Bieber.  

I think David is saying the metal grill obstructs the flow of air too much.  A new grill would fix that.  I cannot for the life of me figure out where that picture of the sub is at.  It is not at the driver's feet?  

 

Edited September 4, 2016 by TallRedRider

[David]

3 hours ago, IXFE said:

Are you referring to this photo?  I don't understand. In your main paragraph you say it's flawed but could be fixed, but neglect to tell us how.

But in the last paragraph you say it's a non-issue on the Malibu... Huh?? David, that pic was taken from the Malibu I demo'd. 

please clarify...

Yes. But poor communication on my part.

The impeded bass issue can be improved with a different or modified grill/vent that has more open surface area, or completely resolved with a different grill/vent plus a baffle panel that would couple the sub driver to the exterior space and completely isolate the interior space within the compartment.

The other BU I was referring to was the 2017 Wakesetter VTX in the video. This model is totally direct radiating and an improved scenario.  

[IXFE]

3 minutes ago, David said:

Yes. But poor communication on my part.

The impeded bass issue can be improved with a different or modified grill/vent that has more open surface area, or completely resolved with a different grill/vent plus a baffle panel that would couple the sub driver to the exterior space and completely isolate the interior space within the compartment.

The other BU I was referring to was the 2017 Wakesetter VTX in the video. This model is totally direct radiating and an improved scenario.  

Thanks for clarifying...

That pic is from below the helm on the 24 MXZ (same position as on all Malibus). But I see what you're saying...  the newer two-piece boats (M235, MXZ, 21 VLX) don't have the traditional carpeted kick panel like we're accustomed to seeing on the three-piece boats (e.g. 22 VLX, 23 LSV, etc).  Maybe those boats use a traditional grill... I dunno cuz I haven't seen one yet. My dealer only had that one 24 MXZ. 

2 hours ago, TallRedRider said:

@IXFE, what songs do you like to test your system? I saw 'Justin' on the screen, and had a good laugh, thinking Bieber.  

I think David is saying the metal grill obstructs the flow of air too much.  A new grill would fix that.  I cannot for the life of me figure out where that picture of the sub is at.  It is not at the driver's feet?  

 

[teamerickson]

18 minutes ago, IXFE said:

Thanks for clarifying...

That pic is from below the helm on the 24 MXZ (same position as on all Malibus). But I see what you're saying...  the newer two-piece boats (M235, MXZ, 21 VLX) don't have the traditional carpeted kick panel like we're accustomed to seeing on the three-piece boats (e.g. 22 VLX, 23 LSV, etc).  Maybe those boats use a traditional grill... I dunno cuz I haven't seen one yet. My dealer only had that one 24 MXZ. 

http://www.salinasvalleymarine.com/m_gallery.asp?pov=4723544&ps=11

[IXFE]

12 hours ago, TallRedRider said:

@IXFE, what songs do you like to test your system? I saw 'Justin' on the screen, and had a good laugh, thinking Bieber.  

I think David is saying the metal grill obstructs the flow of air too much.  A new grill would fix that.  I cannot for the life of me figure out where that picture of the sub is at.  It is not at the driver's feet?  

 

Okay, okay.  I was joking. But your post proves my point... All that real estate yet you can't tell what songs I'm playing.  Artist and Title scroll across the screen like it's 2008.

 

Here are my fav system testing songs.  

Artist: Skrillex    

Song: Summitt

 

Artist: JayZ feat. Justin Timberlake

Song: Holy Grail

 

[gorilla]

5 hours ago, IXFE said:

Here are my fav system testing songs.  

Artist: Skrillex    

Song: Summitt

 

Yup, great test song. Those electronic tones and bass are a perfect workout for speakers.

[Fman]

On September 4, 2016 at 9:16 AM, wakebrdr94 said:

The shelf mounts are actually better in case someone has to remove the tower hoop for garage clearance

Have you ever tried to remove that tower hoop and reinstall it?  I did it ONCE on my 2013 and felt lucky I was able to get it back together without causing damage to the boat.  Definitely NOT a one man job and I would not recommend anyone try and remove it and re-install, imo was never designed for that purpose.  I would take the cleaner swivel mount install over shelf mounts any day and loose the ability to remove the hoop.  It seems to me the reason for the shelf mounts is a cost cutting measure, Malibu would need to purchase the G3 brackets and swivel mounts to accomplish a cleaner install which in the end would only add to the cost of the system.

Edited September 5, 2016 by Fman

[Ronnie]

I think that if Malibu wanted to use the brackets instead of the shelf, they could machine their own cheaper that getting them from another source. I talked to them in 2010 about the brackets I designed and now use on my boats when the G3 came out. They wanted the shelves then and I suppose they still have a reason for them. I don't know their reason suspect they don't care if I know or not. 

[IXFE]

I'm with @Fman on this one... it's cost savings. 

Either that or it's just an oversight... or lack of awareness / attention to detail that there's a superior solution. There's really no other reason.

Kinda like how it's been a year and you still can't see any tower other than G4 in the boat builder. How hard is that to program in, really??

[David]

I realize that the tower speaker shelves are not what people have come to expect, and to me they do look a bit awkward and unfamiliar. On the flipside, I have used after-market BU shelves where the upper and lower speakers were almost perfectly phase-aligned versus staggered front to rear and so far apart. Using the shelves there was a distinct advantage in the coherency with four speakers. Not that Malibu would understand the reason, but I can see some benefit. If I had the shelves, and there was a way, I would modify the shelf to remove any remaining staggered positioning.    

[shawndoggy]

Isn't any phasing issues resulting from a staggered setup something that could actually be corrected with the time alignment features of the dsp amps?

Edited September 5, 2016 by shawndoggy

[David]

1 hour ago, shawndoggy said:

Isn't any phasing issues resulting from a staggered setup something that could actually be corrected with the time alignment features of the dsp amps?

That's absolutely true and something that is often done by those who add dsp. In order to provide the correction you would need an independent dsp channel and independent amplifier channel for every tower speaker. Okay for aftermarket for someone who wants the very best and can accept the premium in the cost of power (extra amp channels and 4-ohm vs 2-ohm loads). Perhaps not so much for a cost sensitive OEM system looking to maintain simplicity.

Btw, nothing would be equal to a correct physical alignment. Even with electronic correction, with six staggered speakers on the tower for example, you still have a lot of diffraction from speakers reflecting off the pods of other staggered speakers...another source of phase distortion.    

Another cool application is with a fanned out horizontal array where you actually add just a slight bit of time delay to the outside speakers so that the interior and exterior tower speakers are phase-aligned to either side off-axis. This technique is used on some home planar speakers and applies well to certain towers.    

Edited September 5, 2016 by David

[The Hulk]

I hated shelf mounts as my racks ha to be on in higher bracket. one issue when I swivel boards in they hit the speakers or if your lucky u can only use one slot and u I would have to flip the forks so wider one is downward. or u I can't swivel inward enough to clear a 120" wide boat lift.. annoying .. if u move them to lower rack well then around here your boards will run into a lot of Dock lost when parking up to a dock.. G4 tower +1 . but I agree hang em!

 

curious what's difference between 4 rev 8s vs 2 rev 10s? 

for the G4 I'd recommend rev 8s for the inner one's for head clearance and If u wanted rev 10s then maybe the outside one's above seats.. .

[teamerickson]

Malibu, I know you're listening! Please ad a separate sub volume function to the screens. Just like tower, interiors and main. PLEASE! And make this available with a software update!