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95echelon

General Help + Anyone know about Kicker 6.5 HLCD

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95echelon

In my boat I have the original sony deck run straight to the original (4) sony speakers in boat and an aux cable. A nice sub box with a decent kicker amp in the passenger compartment, and 4 6.5 inch cans on the titan III tower powered by a small jensen amp. Cans are two WS 650 and two amazon infinity 6.5's.

In boat and tower are fine while chilling but both are crap when underway and if you are more than 10 feet away at the sandbar. I want a system I can hear better, but not quite bother the neighbors level.

I have the following sitting waiting to be installed:

  1. WS-420 BT
  2. Arc 300.4 AMP (needed another amp so the WS zone control will work) This will power towers while the Jensen tower amp with power in boats)

I plan to make the cabin speakers Wet sounds 6.5" over the winter (need to remove windshield and tint at the same time).

Should I consider a cheapie HLCD for the tower? Or should I bite the bullet and get the Rev 10's? My sub adds a lot of depth to my system - I wonder if it is enough for the cheapie HLCD's? Does anyone know if the Kicker system is any good? I just want to hear the system at the sandbar and while surfing. 

Cheapie HLCD: http://www.ebay.com/itm/KICKER-41KMS674C-6-1-2-2-WAY-WAKEBOARD-MARINE-COMPONENT-SPEAKERS-HORN-TWEETERS/191936376537?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D37252%26meid%3D26c17865cf814e609969d04953ec5c9b%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D18%26sd%3D182171043683

My main worry with Rev 10's is price and also the size (don't want to smack my head on them) plus the weight on the tower. Right now I put the tower up and down a bunch.

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teamerickson

I would try the Kickers. It's only $300. I was considering these a few years ago.

I'm sure the stereo experts will chime in. @David and @MLA have commented on these in the past.

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t a

I ran the Kickers for like 5 years and really liked them.  If you have a decent sub and the 420 to tune them, they will sound awesome in the boat.  I have 4 rev 8's now on new boat and stock Rockford everything else and the stereo is not much better sounding than my 2005 was with stock inboats, good sub, kickers, and 420.  Outside of the boat is where you will notice the big difference between these and wetsounds.  Very loud but very bright sounding with almost no midbass (If you only have the 4 speakers).  You can add an extra midbass and supposedly that really helps.

The Kickers wont be as good as wetsounds while riding but at the sandbar they are plenty loud.

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95echelon
2 minutes ago, t a said:

I ran the Kickers for like 5 years and really liked them.  If you have a decent sub and the 420 to tune them, they will sound awesome in the boat.  I have 4 rev 8's now on new boat and stock Rockford everything else and the stereo is not much better sounding than my 2005 was with stock inboats, good sub, kickers, and 420.  Outside of the boat is where you will notice the big difference between these and wetsounds.  Very loud but very bright sounding with almost no midbass (If you only have the 4 speakers).  You can add an extra midbass and supposedly that really helps.

The Kickers wont be as good as wetsounds while riding but at the sandbar they are plenty loud.

You mean do the 2 ohm 6 pack option? Adding another set of kicker midbass on the tower?

You said you did stock in boats right?

 

Edit: I wish I lived in TN! Unfortunately something about the grammar and detail in this ad screams "stolen" http://tricities.craigslist.org/bpo/5678192247.html

Edited by 95echelon

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t a
8 minutes ago, 95echelon said:

You mean do the 2 ohm 6 pack option? Adding another set of kicker midbass on the tower?

You said you did stock in boats right?

 

Edit: I wish I lived in TN! Unfortunately something about the grammar and detail in this ad screams "stolen" http://tricities.craigslist.org/bpo/5678192247.html

Yea I only had the 4 kickers on my tower and stock inboats but a really good deep sub.  It sounded really great in the boat, was not super impressive behind the boat while towing (fine for surfing, not really wakeboarding).  Sandbar was plenty loud but I didn't blare my sub to save my battery so lacked a lot of bass there but it was impressive for non-wetsounds snobs. 

Make sure you measure your current cans to make sure they will fit.  I think the horns were something like 7 1/2 inches deep.  I did have to cut the lip of my cans a little too with a jigsaw to get them to fit cause they were slightly wider than my stock speakers too.  If you have to buy new cans, the kickers wouldn't be worth it IMO but for $300 I would do it over and over again.  I think they are comparable to one pair of the old wetsounds pro60's if not have a slight edge over them to give you a comparison.

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95echelon
Just now, t a said:

Yea I only had the 4 kickers on my tower and stock inboats but a really good deep sub.  It sounded really great in the boat, was not super impressive behind the boat while towing (fine for surfing, not really wakeboarding).  Sandbar was plenty loud but I didn't blare my sub to save my battery so lacked a lot of bass there but it was impressive for non-wetsounds snobs. 

Make sure you measure your current cans to make sure they will fit.  I think the horns were something like 7 1/2 inches deep.  I did have to cut the lip of my cans a little too with a jigsaw to get them to fit cause they were slightly wider than my stock speakers too.  If you have to buy new cans, the kickers wouldn't be worth it IMO but for $300 I would do it over and over again.  I think they are comparable to one pair of the old wetsounds pro60's if not have a slight edge over them to give you a comparison.

Cool! I am hoping this could be a sweet spot for my old 05. Would you get a set of kicker in boats to match, or keep the wetsounds from the tower (adding another pair).

Anything left over goes into pontoon anyway. Nothing will go to waste.

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t a

I didn't care about being super matchy-matchy on that boat so it never bothered me.  The only issue you will run into and why I never changed my stock speakers in those dash speakers.  Pain in the a** to get to and I think the mounting depth is like less than 4 inches or something like that.  I would move the wetsounds to in boats if they fit but I never bothered to go through the trouble since I was happy with the sound.

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95echelon
Just now, t a said:

I didn't care about being super matchy-matchy on that boat so it never bothered me.  The only issue you will run into and why I never changed my stock speakers in those dash speakers.  Pain in the a** to get to and I think the mounting depth is like less than 4 inches or something like that.  I would move the wetsounds to in boats if they fit but I never bothered to go through the trouble since I was happy with the sound.

Lucky me the one blown speaker is passenger dash. I want to tint the window anyway and it's a nice winter layup project (this whole thing might end up being that actually). It's a TON of wiring to do when I could be out enjoying the last few weekends.

Right now I need to:

  1. Mount WS-420
  2. Wire in my (now third) amplifier
  3. Wire in Boats to the new amp
  4. run new RCA cables for 420
  5. Replace in boats (requires removing windshield)
  6. Potentially make a sub box under the dash. I want my passenger storage back but that heater is big!

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95echelon
MLA
1 hour ago, 95echelon said:

I wonder if it is enough for the cheapie HLCD's? Does anyone know if the Kicker system is any good? 

Well, if you want "cheap" HLCD, the Kicker KMS76 is not for you. They are a true marine component style HLCD built from the ground up and will handle some serious power. They are a wake range projection setup. Paired with quality pods, they will be in the price range of a wet sounds Rev-8, so no, they are not cheap speakers. 

Now, if you want a solid wake range HLCD thats going to be budget friendly because you already have tower pods? Then yes, the Kicker KMS67 is for you. Because they are sold as raw drivers (not in pods) they are less expensive that a complete HLCD pod setup. 

1 hour ago, 95echelon said:

I just want to hear the system at the sandbar and while surfing.

Based on this, I dont see why 2 pair of quality 6.5" coaxials with solid power and proper tune, arent getting the job done on the tower. I dont know what amp you have driving the tower setup right now and I do not know the power handling of the infinity drivers. What I do know, is that the Wet Sounds XS-650 can be driven with a solid 150-180 watts rms. If you want to keep the pods, I would consider swapping the infinity for another pair of XS-650 and get the Wet Sounds HTX-2

 

1 hour ago, 95echelon said:

I plan to make the cabin speakers Wet sounds 6.5" over the winter (need to remove windshield and tint at the same time).

For those windshield pair, id consider the Wet Sounds 65i. The SW black works real well. 

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95echelon
10 minutes ago, MLA said:

Well, if you want "cheap" HLCD, the Kicker KMS76 is not for you. They are a true marine component style HLCD built from the ground up and will handle some serious power. They are a wake range projection setup. Paired with quality pods, they will be in the price range of a wet sounds Rev-8, so no, they are not cheap speakers. 

Now, if you want a solid wake range HLCD thats going to be budget friendly because you already have tower pods? Then yes, the Kicker KMS67 is for you. Because they are sold as raw drivers (not in pods) they are less expensive that a complete HLCD pod setup. 

Based on this, I dont see why 2 pair of quality 6.5" coaxials with solid power and proper tune, arent getting the job done on the tower. I dont know what amp you have driving the tower setup right now and I do not know the power handling of the infinity drivers. What I do know, is that the Wet Sounds XS-650 can be driven with a solid 150-180 watts rms. If you want to keep the pods, I would consider swapping the infinity for another pair of XS-650 and get the Wet Sounds HTX-2

 

For those windshield pair, id consider the Wet Sounds 65i. The SW black works real well. 

The tower speakers are mismatched, and they are bridged into a very low powered jensen. I just bought an ARC 300.4 used from a forum member here to power the towers, and I plan to move the Jensen to the in boats. 

Sounds like my plan should be to install the HLCD kickers up top if they fit and power them with the ARC. The do a set of kicker in boats or another pair of XS-650 wetsounds for in boats and power them with the Jensen - or would the ARC power all 8 speakers in bridged mode?

Thanks for all of the help! Here is a list of my current setup when I bought the boat, i now also have the 420BT and the ARC 300.4 to use.

  1. Factory Sony Headunit powering the in boats
  2. Sony Factory Speakers in Boat (one has blown tweeter, all are moldy)
  3. Infinity 612M pair in the tower (works fine and looks fine) (powered by jensen and wired with the XS-650's below)
  4. Wetsounds XS-650 in the tower (works fine and looks fine) but daisychained on a weaker amp with the infinity speakers.
  5. 12" Kenwood Boxed Sub powered by kenwood KAC 7205, 500W RMSx1 to sub
  6. Kenwood KAC 7205 - http://www.crutchfield.com/S-kYsqQA3uFY4/p_113KAC7205/Kenwood-KAC-7205.html 250 RMSX2 in 2 ohm capable
  7. Jensen Power 400x2 (4 ohms: 75 watts x 2 chan, 2 ohms: 100 watts x 2 chan, Bridged, 4 ohms: 200 watts x 1 chan)
Edited by 95echelon

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shawndoggy

bridged, a ks300.4 can't drop below 4ohms a channel.  So as a practical matter, no, you won't be running eight speakers from it, just two (the 2 kicker pods are really "one" speaker -- mid and tweet with xover).  If you wanted to add the second set of midbass drivers later on, then the thing to do would be ditch the jensen, move the 300.4 to the cabins and get an arc ks600.2 for the towers (ks600.2 has no prob pushing enough power @2ohms).

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95echelon
16 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

bridged, a ks300.4 can't drop below 4ohms a channel.  So as a practical matter, no, you won't be running eight speakers from it, just two (the 2 kicker pods are really "one" speaker -- mid and tweet with xover).  If you wanted to add the second set of midbass drivers later on, then the thing to do would be ditch the jensen, move the 300.4 to the cabins and get an arc ks600.2 for the towers (ks600.2 has no prob pushing enough power @2ohms).

 Sounds like it should be more than enough power for the kickers though right? 

 And then even the little Jensen should be a nice upgrade over the head unit for the in boat speakers. 

 Overall I think I am looking forward to this. Hlcd, plus zone control. 

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shawndoggy

Yeah, should be a nice incremental upgrade all around.  Honestly, bang for the buck wise, it'll probably be the best upgrade you'll ever do.  You'll need to spend thousands to get another  jump in performance that's as big as where you'll be after getting all of your speakers decently powered.  

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Fffrank

I really, really liked my Kickers.  I had the 6 pack with the extra mid-bass driver and was putting in 300 watts per side (two mid-bass drivers and the 1 horn.)  They absolutely screamed.

The only thing I have to compare them to is a friends older WS Pro 80s.  I don't think he was pushing enough power into them but I could totally overpower his system with my Kickers.  It's a great and inexpensive upgrade to your pod speakers.

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MLA
3 hours ago, 95echelon said:

and they are bridged into a very low powered jensen

4 pods bridged on a 4 chnl amp? Are they wired properly, are the RCAs configured right and is the amp tuned ok? Evan at 75 watts net to each pod, 4 should be heard just fine behind the boat at rest. All things being equal, the Arc KS300.4 is only 15W rms more than your current jensen. If those jensen specs are even close to being accurate, that 15W is not an audible difference. 

 

3 hours ago, 95echelon said:

Sounds like my plan should be to install the HLCD kickers up top if they fit and power them with the ARC.

Well, you will certainly hear the KMS67 at the sand bar as well as surfing with either the current jensen or the Arc KS300.4. 

2-3 pair of Kicker KM654LCW would do REAL well off the KS300.4. The mat silver cone and charcoal grill do well under the windshield with little reflection. However, I would skip the "L" series for the dash speakers, unless you were to only use the LEDs while at anchor. You would not want the LEDs on while cruising as they would really reflect off the glass. SO same identical speaker, just go with the KM654CW model and leave off the L. 

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95echelon
1 hour ago, MLA said:

4 pods bridged on a 4 chnl amp? Are they wired properly, are the RCAs configured right and is the amp tuned ok? Evan at 75 watts net to each pod, 4 should be heard just fine behind the boat at rest. All things being equal, the Arc KS300.4 is only 15W rms more than your current jensen. If those jensen specs are even close to being accurate, that 15W is not an audible difference. 

 

Well, you will certainly hear the KMS67 at the sand bar as well as surfing with either the current jensen or the Arc KS300.4. 

2-3 pair of Kicker KM654LCW would do REAL well off the KS300.4. The mat silver cone and charcoal grill do well under the windshield with little reflection. However, I would skip the "L" series for the dash speakers, unless you were to only use the LEDs while at anchor. You would not want the LEDs on while cruising as they would really reflect off the glass. SO same identical speaker, just go with the KM654CW model and leave off the L. 

I think the tower speakers are only bridged because there are only 2 pairs of speaker wired run up there.  So I will do the 300 amp for Inboats and the Jensen to a pair of hlcd kickers up top. Probably keep the Sony in boats until winter when I remove the windshield for tint. 

Thanks for the advice everyone!!!

Also I should say you can hear the tower speakers easily now, but they dont project  far  

 

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MLA
34 minutes ago, 95echelon said:

but they dont project  far

Of course not. A 6'5 coaxial @ 75W rms is not going to do very well projecting wake range, like 75 ft to a boarder. Surfing and party cove, sure, they will fine. 

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David

95echelon,

Just noticed your location. We did our boating on Lake George for 30 years. Still have family on Lake George. Best Sweet Sue corn in the world from that area. Picked it up daily on the way in to Coldwater.

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95echelon
3 hours ago, David said:

95echelon,

Just noticed your location. We did our boating on Lake George for 30 years. Still have family on Lake George. Best Sweet Sue corn in the world from that area. Picked it up daily on the way in to Coldwater.

Yes lots of good corn here. If you ever get back into the area let me know. Our lake place is "rustic" but I have room for more boats and a killer party sandbar

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95echelon

Some old pro 60's came up on Ebay. A pair for about 400. Should I stick with the Kicker plan or go for the Pro 60's?

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shawndoggy

Pro 60s are far and away the worst sounding HLCD I've ever heard bar none.

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95echelon
Just now, shawndoggy said:

Pro 60s are far and away the worst sounding HLCD I've ever heard bar none.

Decision made.

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David
24 minutes ago, shawndoggy said:

Pro 60s are far and away the worst sounding HLCD I've ever heard bar none.

That would be a very busy competition....determining the worst sounding 6.5" HLCDs. I believe I have heard them all. The Kicker 6.5" HLCD is the best of the worst so stick with the Kickers if those are the only two choices. But as long as you are willing to go with a used product, try increasing the size to an 8" speaker, whether HLCD or surf. This way there will be a good chance they don't end up in the classifieds or on ebay again after one season.   

 

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shawndoggy
Just now, David said:

That would be a very busy competition....determining the worst sounding 6.5" HLCDs. I believe I have heard them all. The Kicker 6.5" HLCD is the best of the worst so stick with the Kickers if those are the only two choices. But as long as you are willing to go with a used product, try increasing the size to an 8" speaker, whether HLCD or surf. This way there will be a good chance they don't end up in the classifieds or on ebay again after one season.   

 

yeah and caveat I never heard the krypt bullet knockoffs.  The OG bullets were bad enough themselves tho.

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