Looking at Duramax, SRW 2500 or DRW 3500?

[ahopkins22LSV]

One other thing to add to the mix... IIRC 07 was when the sticker emission laws were enforced and the mileage dropped from 06-07. Not sure if that matter to you or not, and that is straight from my memory (or lack there of) so I would double check it if it does matter

[cheezwizard]

I'm pretty sure your are gonna want to looke at 06+ if going duramax. 06 was when they changed engines right (to the lly or lbz)? I can't remember anymore, but pretty sure when I was looking at an older Chevy I wanted 06 and newer to avoid the notorious injector issues.

04.5-06 are LLY models, 06-07 are LBZ models, and 07.5-10 are LMM models in the newer body style. The LBZ and LMM are about identical except the LMM got DPF on the exhaust due to emission standards. Injector issues were in the 01-04.5 LB7 model trucks.

The Bosch injectors were a big problem from 01-05. So much so that Chevy extended the warranty on the injectors. They claimed it was an injector issue. Some of the forums claim it was more of a design flaw. Some people have had good luck after injectors were replaced while others have not. If you get a new body style (model change halfway thru 07) you should be fine as far as injectors go.

It was the LB7 trucks that have all the injector issues. GM switched to the LLY in 04.5 and with that change came new injectors that were a much better design. The LLY had some other issues, but injectors are not something to be too concerned about in those trucks.

One other thing to add to the mix... IIRC 07 was when the sticker emission laws were enforced and the mileage dropped from 06-07. Not sure if that matter to you or not, and that is straight from my memory (or lack there of) so I would double check it if it does matter

Mileage dropped in 07.5 when emissions changed and they added DPF to the exhaust. When it would go into regen to clean out the particulate filter, it is basically just pumping fuel into the exhaust so mileage went down the drain.

[DarkSide]

I love my 3500 dually. It is not my daily driver, though. If it were in would not like it near as much. Parking is a chore, u turn? Forgettaboutit! However pulling a trailer is effortless. My 24MXZ on the triple axle, 75 is rock stable!

[nyryan2001]

Its a bit sad that it's 2016 and buying an American diesel truck is like navigating a minefield of QAQC, R&D and product development fails if injectors, turbos, head gaskets everything failing.

This is why so many folks were hoping for a solid Japanese showing in the Amercan diesel market with Toyota and Nissan. The Japanese were the first to prove you can expect 3-400k miles out I a car without owning a 86,000 piece toolset and an engine hoist hanging from the attic in your garage. Japanese QAQC would again drag the big 3 diesel QAQC/R&D out of the Stone Age. Right now they've got a captive audience resigned that all these issues are just normal problems of diesel ownership.

[RyanB]

I would argue that, other than the dreaded 6.0, the Diesel engine in the Big 3 are very reliable. Can you call out a few problems here and there? Yes. But to say that the Japanese manufactures have an advantage is far from accurate.

The 5.9 CTD is largely bullet proof. Pick a year, and you are good. Transmissions are fine if you stay at stock power. If you go slightly above stock, get one of the manuals, or a 48RE, 68RFE, or the Aisin in the later year 6.7.

If you got 6.7 CTD, and a pre-DEF model, you may have to drive it like a truck - give it time to warm up before shutting it down, use it to tow a load, and get up to highway speeds and you are good.

The Ford 7.3 is about as good as the 5.9. But it seems a little under powered compared to what is out there now.

The Ford 6.4 is likely the next weakest of the engines, but I would not call it terrible. It does like fuel.

Overall, the 6.6 has been a very good engine. Early models did have overheating trouble. They got that worked out, and anything of that vintage that is still on the road is likely fine.

I'd put either my 2003 CTD or my 2012 CTD up against ANY vehicle out there for reliability. The 5.9 had around 120k miles on it before I traded it in. I did lose injectors and the rail pump. The rail pump was admittedly a bad design as it was not in the fuel tank and had the potential to run too hot. I had a Smarty JR on it which likely shorted the life of the rail pump, and also caused the injectors to fail when they were starved for fuel from the failing pump. My fault, not Cummins.

My 2012 now has about 45,000 miles on the clock, and I think it has only been back to the dealer one time (a couple weeks ago) and the issue was covered under the powertrain warranty.

Lots of brand loyalists in the truck world, and they will use any opportunity they can to expand on a small issue and tell you that is why you shouldn't buy Brand X. But in reality, I think the diesel world is very reliable.

[cheezwizard]

I would argue that, other than the dreaded 6.0, the Diesel engine in the Big 3 are very reliable. Can you call out a few problems here and there? Yes. But to say that the Japanese manufactures have an advantage is far from accurate.

The 5.9 CTD is largely bullet proof. Pick a year, and you are good. Transmissions are fine if you stay at stock power. If you go slightly above stock, get one of the manuals, or a 48RE, 68RFE, or the Aisin in the later year 6.7.

If you got 6.7 CTD, and a pre-DEF model, you may have to drive it like a truck - give it time to warm up before shutting it down, use it to tow a load, and get up to highway speeds and you are good.

The Ford 7.3 is about as good as the 5.9. But it seems a little under powered compared to what is out there now.

The Ford 6.4 is likely the next weakest of the engines, but I would not call it terrible. It does like fuel.

Overall, the 6.6 has been a very good engine. Early models did have overheating trouble. They got that worked out, and anything of that vintage that is still on the road is likely fine.

I'd put either my 2003 CTD or my 2012 CTD up against ANY vehicle out there for reliability. The 5.9 had around 120k miles on it before I traded it in. I did lose injectors and the rail pump. The rail pump was admittedly a bad design as it was not in the fuel tank and had the potential to run too hot. I had a Smarty JR on it which likely shorted the life of the rail pump, and also caused the injectors to fail when they were starved for fuel from the failing pump. My fault, not Cummins.

Lots of brand loyalists in the truck world, and they will use any opportunity they can to expand on a small issue and tell you that is why you shouldn't buy Brand X. But in reality, I think the diesel world is very reliable.

You can find something wrong with any model truck/car/suv. Some have more severe and costly problems than others. The 6.0 Powerstroke is a perfect example. They blow the headgasket and it's a very costly repair job because the cab has to be lifted to get the heads off.

The 6.7 Cummins has headgasket issues as well, but that job is less labor intensive and the heads likely won't need replaced like the 6.0.

04.5 - 06 LLY Duramax fits in that catergory too. They are known to overheat which can then lead to headgasket problems.

I think the biggest problem they all suffer from is a fuel supply issue. Injectors and injection pumps aren't cheap but they are supplied by a cheap lift pump through a sub par filter and in the case of the Duramax, they don't have a lift pump to supply the injection pump with fuel. It is trying to pull fuel all the way from the tank, to the engine.

Most newer diesels also suffer from emissions related issues. They cause check/engine lights when certain parameters aren't met, reduce power, decrease fuel mileage, and compromise reliability.

[MLBurns]

My 2010 Duramax is at almost 300k, only problem was an idler pulley bearing went out. My 2015 Duramax is at 55k and not a problem to date, both trucks are tuned and converted to synthetic oils.

[bzeller]

First advice is skip the 2500, and get a 3500. Even if you get SRW, it will have a higher rated tow capacity.

This is actually not true. In fact, as far as TOW CAPACITY, the 2500 vs 3500 tow capacity is essentially the same and in many cases the 2500 can actually tow a little more. However, payload capacity is much greater on the 3500 so if you have something with heavy pin weight, then get the 3500 SRW.

[RyanB]

You can find something wrong with any model truck/car/suv. Some have more severe and costly problems than others. The 6.0 Powerstroke is a perfect example. They blow the headgasket and it's a very costly repair job because the cab has to be lifted to get the heads off.

The 6.7 Cummins has headgasket issues as well, but that job is less labor intensive and the heads likely won't need replaced like the 6.0.

04.5 - 06 LLY Duramax fits in that catergory too. They are known to overheat which can then lead to headgasket problems.

I think the biggest problem they all suffer from is a fuel supply issue. Injectors and injection pumps aren't cheap but they are supplied by a cheap lift pump through a sub par filter and in the case of the Duramax, they don't have a lift pump to supply the injection pump with fuel. It is trying to pull fuel all the way from the tank, to the engine.

Most newer diesels also suffer from emissions related issues. They cause check/engine lights when certain parameters aren't met, reduce power, decrease fuel mileage, and compromise reliability.

You are very unlikely to have head gasket issues with a 6.7 CTD with stock power. If you add power on any engine, you are more likely to have reliability issues.

[cheezwizard]

You are very unlikely to have head gasket issues with a 6.7 CTD with stock power. If you add power on any engine, you are more likely to have reliability issues.

I think you'll be surprised at the amount of headgasket issues they have had. The larger displacement of the 6.7 over the 5.9 and the smaller exhaust housing on the charger seem to be the culprit. The 6.7 likes to breathe and that little turbo won't let it.

[RyanB]

I think you'll be surprised at the amount of headgasket issues they have had. The larger displacement of the 6.7 over the 5.9 and the smaller exhaust housing on the charger seem to be the culprit. The 6.7 likes to breathe and that little turbo won't let it.

Sorry. I stand by my statement. Head gasket issues are almost always on a modded truck. Reports like yours are usually from someone who is a brand fan boy that wants to kick dirt on a brand they do not have.

The biggest issue with any of the current Big 3 diesels is the CP4 pump that is used in both Ford and Chevy. When they blow, they cost a fortune to repair. GM has done a good job of standing behind their warranties. Ford less so. But even these issues are extremely rare, and not a reason to not buy.

[bzeller]

Sorry. I stand by my statement. Head gasket issues are almost always on a modded truck. Reports like yours are usually from someone who is a brand fan boy that wants to kick dirt on a brand they do not have.

The biggest issue with any of the current Big 3 diesels is the CP4 pump that is used in both Ford and Chevy. When they blow, they cost a fortune to repair. GM has done a good job of standing behind their warranties. Ford less so. But even these issues are extremely rare, and not a reason to not buy.

WRT to the CP4 comments, I recently purchased a Chevy 2015.5 Duramax 2500HD. Tons of info on this "issue". While there are certainly people that have had their CP4's grenade causing catastrophic issues, I'm in the camp that believes this issue is pretty rare (as you stated in your comments). Definitely not a reason not to buy. I was actually angling to purchase the new Titan XD, but when Nissan delayed the release past my patience level, I pulled the trigger on the Chevy. There are a couple features on the Duramax that led me to select it, but in reality, I'd have been happy with any of the big three for my purposes. Light duty trailering of any boat imaginable and our 9K - 10K lbs travel trailer with possible upgrade to a 13K - 16K fifth wheel in the future.

[cheezwizard]

Sorry. I stand by my statement. Head gasket issues are almost always on a modded truck. Reports like yours are usually from someone who is a brand fan boy that wants to kick dirt on a brand they do not have.

The biggest issue with any of the current Big 3 diesels is the CP4 pump that is used in both Ford and Chevy. When they blow, they cost a fortune to repair. GM has done a good job of standing behind their warranties. Ford less so. But even these issues are extremely rare, and not a reason to not buy.

Stand by it all you want. Just because it hasn't happened to yours, doesn't mean it hasn't happened to others and doesn't mean it won't happen again. Saying almost, always, and rare are very seem very empty when they are based on nothing. Fact is, all these trucks have problems and that's the reason why the aftermarket makes a killing selling "solution" and "bulletproof" kits.

http://www.rudysdiesel.com/_e/EGR_Delete_Kits/product/60-RDP-Complete/Rudy_s_Diesel_6_0_Powerstroke_OEM_Total_Solution_Kit.htm

http://www.mkmcustoms.com/completesolutionforchevy66lduramaxwithsinisterupgradedegrcooler.aspx

http://www.rollinsmokediesel.com/pd-2007-5-2012-cummins-6-7-complete-solution-kit.cfm

http://fleeceperformance.com/2011-2015-lml-cp3-conversion-kit-with-cp3-pump.html

[RyanB]

Stand by it all you want. Just because it hasn't happened to yours, doesn't mean it hasn't happened to others and doesn't mean it won't happen again. Saying almost, always, and rare are very seem very empty when they are based on nothing. Fact is, all these trucks have problems and that's the reason why the aftermarket makes a killing selling "solution" and "bulletproof" kits.

http://www.rudysdiesel.com/_e/EGR_Delete_Kits/product/60-RDP-Complete/Rudy_s_Diesel_6_0_Powerstroke_OEM_Total_Solution_Kit.htm

http://www.mkmcustoms.com/completesolutionforchevy66lduramaxwithsinisterupgradedegrcooler.aspx

http://www.rollinsmokediesel.com/pd-2007-5-2012-cummins-6-7-complete-solution-kit.cfm

http://fleeceperformance.com/2011-2015-lml-cp3-conversion-kit-with-cp3-pump.html

Would you like me to link to the aftermarket companies like ATS, Bullydog, Smarty, ATS.....? All of them have products that increase the performance of the Diesel engines which make additional "bulletproofing" (which is a term most associated with a 6.0 that had billions of dollars worth of problems) needed.

Just because there is a product out there does not mean there is a huge problem it is solving. I am admittedly a RAM guy, but I will state it again. With the exception of the 6.0, when a diesel truck needs new head gaskets, it is usually reported with the owner also having done something to increase the output of the engine. Doesn't matter if it is reported on TDR or Cummins forum, or the diesel place, it is the same.

[Joeprunc]

This...cheezwizard is dead on....

I have a LBZ K2500 crew and agree with everything he has stated. Have a neighbor with an 08 LMM, but the gas mileage is easily 2-3 mpg less than me. I do like the newer body and interior, but finding a quality one was not in my budget.

06-07 classic body style with an LBZ Duramax are great trucks. They are getting up there in years so you will see a lot of the in the $20-25K range with 100K miles or so. They are very reliable trucks so don't be afraid of the miles. My current LLY has 210K and pulls my Enzo with no problems. I would own another one in a heartbeat.

The 07.5+ LMM trucks are the newer body style which I really like. They have basically the same powertrain as the previous year models but have the newer body and interior. Only drawback is they have added emissions which kills the fuel mileage. This is very easily fixed with a good EFILive tune and exhaust.

I've towed boats, campers, and trailers with SRW and DRW trucks with little to no noticeable difference. Powertrain, braking and suspensions will be the same or be close to the same, the DRW just feels a little more stable at highway speeds when loaded heavy.

04.5-06 are LLY models, 06-07 are LBZ models, and 07.5-10 are LMM models in the newer body style. The LBZ and LMM are about identical except the LMM got DPF on the exhaust due to emission standards. Injector issues were in the 01-04.5 LB7 model trucks.

It was the LB7 trucks that have all the injector issues. GM switched to the LLY in 04.5 and with that change came new injectors that were a much better design. The LLY had some other issues, but injectors are not something to be too concerned about in those trucks.

Mileage dropped in 07.5 when emissions changed and they added DPF to the exhaust. When it would go into regen to clean out the particulate filter, it is basically just pumping fuel into the exhaust so mileage went down the drain.

[Cayute]

I have had 3 duramaxs now an 05 an 07 classic and now back to the 05

01-04.5 lb7 duramaxs are known for injector problems.

04.5-05 and some 06 LLY engines that still had the crimped style head gaskets are known for the head gasket issues.

In 06 you could get a 6 speed LLY engine or the LBZ

The 06-07 lBZ engine I believe is the strongest and most reliable Duramax out there. The power on my 07 with the 6 speed tranny was night and day from my 05. It had 205 k miles or just under 340 k kms on it when I sold it and it was an awesome truck. Not one single major issue on it. It had leaky transmission lines which a lot of them do which is a very minor fix. I would not hesitate at all if I could find another clean 07 classic Duramax

The 07.5 - 2010 LMM is also a very solid truck. Like the guys have said they get worse mileage do to the DPF in the exhaust but this is a fairly straight forward delete. A 4" turbo back exhaust and a tuner will take care of that and turn your truck into pretty much an LBZ engine. Another mod for any Duramax which is highly recommended is an EGR delete and PCV reroute which are also pretty easy. If you get an LMM you can look at about 3-500$ for an exhaust, 600-1500 for a tuner to take care of the codes set by removing DPF, depending how crazy you wanna go. And 200-500 for an EGR delete and pcv reroute depending on who's kit you choose. And once your bit the mods will never stop!

Check out duramaxforum.com for good info

[TimbrSS]

Just an update. I decided this 08 fit the price and covered all my needs. Took me since January to decide on something. DSP 5 position switch and mild to wild tunes to go with it. Thanks for all the advice. Just picked up truck yesterday and might find an excuse to finally tow the boat further than the gas station.

 

 

[edwin]

that's a beast!

[Pnwrider]

Just a slight upgrade from the gran Cherokee! 

[Kmfish87]

good looking truck...even for a cheby.