2014 VTX - motor died / won't start

[SG223]

We have a 2014 VTX with the Monsoon 350 motor. While we've had some frustrating issues with the boat, we've had zero issues with the motor. My son had just pulled out this morning and was idling along as he was filling the ballast, and just as he was getting ready to pull the rider, it started running rough then died. Got toed back to the house, and it still won't start. It bumps along like it's trying, but won't fire up. I know it's getting spark, so it's not the coil. We had just used the boat this morning for some skiing, and it was fine.

Any ideas on what the issue might be? With these motors being so computerized, it's hard to do a lot of diagnostics. The one thing that is unique, and I'm not sure if it's the cause, or just coincidence, is that he had just filled up the boat with gas. The caddy he used had a couple of gallons that were, frankly, pretty old, but that was probably a couple gallons out of 20+ gallons that he put in the boat. Even if old gas wasn't that good, seems like it would be fairly diluted and the boat would at least run.

I was thinking it could be fuel filter, but I'm not even sure where that is! I think I may have located it, but if it's where I think it's at, it's buried in the engine compartment.

Welcome any thoughts / ideas / direction I might look at, thanks in advance for your time.

Scott

[Wayne]

Could that tank with the old gas in it have a fair amount of water in it too? That would cause a quick stalling and no run issue right after filling.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Wayne

[SG223]

Update - found what I believe to be the filter, loosened the top nut and turned the motor over. Fuel sprayed out, so it does appear that fuel is getting through the filter. I also got it to fire up (sort of), ran with a super rough idle and a heavy "knock", which mimicked what happened when it first quit running. Under the diagnostics screen, Fuel is showing 200 throughout (no idea what that means), and Fuel Filt reads zero. Under Active Engine Codes and Inactive Engine Codes, the screen is blank.

Don't know if this helps, but thought I'd share what I was able to learn.

As a point of reference, we had an old Moomba with an Indmar motor, and had the cat's fail, with water getting into the cylinders. This seems to have some similar characteristics, although the circumstances were quite different. With the Moomba, this was a known issue with Indmar's, and it was covered under warranty. Anyone have similar issues with the Malibu's?

[SG223]

Spotter - that was my initial thought as well, and it could easily have had some water in it. But it seems like it would have been so diluted, the motor would still run, even if not optimal. The gas tank was close to empty on the boat, and it's full, so we're talking maybe a gallon or so of old gas, with ~25 gallons of fresh fuel. It does seem like it's more than a coincidence that this happened right after filling it up though. Don't know how to test for this though (would be easy with an old motor and carburetor).

[CliffStick]

I had a similar issue with my 13 and it ended up being a loose wire connection in the fuel pump relay box. Boat wouldn't turn over on random occasions but eventually would. After a lot of diagnostics by dealer they finally found a wire making intermittent connection inside the relay box where the fuel pump relay plugs in. after tightening it down it has been flawless. They said the screw for that wire was prob never tightened down at the factory and got misses as all the other screwr were tight. Hope its as simple of a fix as mine

[SG223]

Cliff - Do you happen to know where this relay is? These boats are like new cars, I can't tell what anything is! I suspect it's going to be a simple fix, or maybe I'm just being hopeful? It's 90+ degrees out today, pretty bummed that we're not out enjoying the boat...

[CliffStick]

Theres a fuse block in a black box thats in front of the motor. Im not sure exactly which fuse it was and they are not marked "fuel pump relay". Your indmar manual should have a diagram for your box as it may be different than my 13 MXZ. Make sure the fuses are tightly in place. My issue was a loose wire inside(behind) the box which i never saw myself (dealer found it). when you key in the code before you try to start, do you hear a humming near the engine (not the blower)? If so that is the fuel pump and the relay isn't the prob. If you hear noting coming on back there before you start, the fuel pump isn't turing on and the boat won't turn over without it getting power.

[SG223]

Thanks Cliff - I don't think that's the issue then. I loosened the nut on the topside of the fuel filter, and turned the motor over. While turning over, it sprayed fuel, so it IS getting fuel through the filter. I was hoping it could be something simple like a clogged fuel filter, because while turning over, it does seem to try to bump over, rather than just crank. And it has started a couple times, but runs super rough and then dies. When it did run, it had this loud "knocking" sound, which seems similar to our issue with the Moomba. When it had water in the cylinders, that came through the catalytic converters (an Indmar issue on that boat), the cylinders had water in them and it was causing the motor to "hydraulic". But this just seems so weird, running fine and then quickly runs rough before quitting...

Frustrating, looks like I'm off to the dealer tomorrow.

[CliffStick]

Thankfully whatever it is, it should be covered by warranty. Hopefully its just bad gas and not something major. Good luck bud!

[SG223]

Thanks Cliff - I sure hope so, middle of July and without our boat, made for a long, boring (and hot) Sunday! Hope they can turn this around so we have it next weekend...

[oldjeep]

Spotter - that was my initial thought as well, and it could easily have had some water in it. But it seems like it would have been so diluted, the motor would still run, even if not optimal. The gas tank was close to empty on the boat, and it's full, so we're talking maybe a gallon or so of old gas, with ~25 gallons of fresh fuel. It does seem like it's more than a coincidence that this happened right after filling it up though. Don't know how to test for this though (would be easy with an old motor and carburetor).

I'm confused by the - it was empty and now it is full, one gallon of old gas and 25 new. That tank should be 38 gallons. What does your fuel gauge say?

[Wayne]

If the old gas had enough water in it, the water will settle to the bottom of the tank. It doesn't take long to settle and recombine even when refueling. Your symptoms are a very close match to water in the fuel.

If you want to try and purge the tank on your own it's probably not a lot of water in there. Put the fuel line in a safe container and cycle the ignition so the fuel pump goes through its prime cycle before engine start. Collect a half gallon or so and then hook it back up and see how cranking it over goes. You will still have water in the fuel rails so they have to be purged as well but you could do that by cranking the engine a bit.

Not sure how friendly your dealer is, mine would charge me for fixing that even though the boat is only a year old since its a "owner induced problem".

[SG223]

Chuck - I'm pretty sure the gauge is reading full, there was gas in the boat to start with, then we added ~25 gallons. Of the 25+ gallons that we added, I would say that maybe 1 - 2 gallons max were old, the rest was new. So if we have 30+ gallons in the boat, IF there was water in the old fuel, it sure seems like it would be diluted quite a bit. That said, this sure seems like more than a coincidence that it happened within five minutes of fueling the boat.

Wayne - I think that sounds like a good plan, I'm not sure where to find a place in the fuel line where I can disconnect it? I found the fuel filter, but boy, that's buried pretty deep in there. Do you happen to know if there is another place closer to the top of the motor?

Thanks to everyone for your ideas, really appreciate you taking the time to think about this and respond.

[NHolladay]

Maybe try heet. It will evaporate the water of if any is in there. Just a thought but sounds like a vapor lock or fiel issue.

[SG223]

Thanks to everyone that followed this thread and provided some ideas. I was able to disconnect the fuel line and drain a bunch of fuel by turning the motor over repeatedly. As it turns out, it had a ton of water in the fuel (good lesson for my son!) from the gas caddy that had sat for a couple winters. Once I drained a lot of the fuel, and got it to the point where there was far more fuel than water (90% fuel / 10% water), hooked it back up and it fired right up. I'm going to fill the boat up and add some sea foam, hopefully that will help eliminate any of the water that's still in the gas tank.

Feel like an idiot, I was going to tell my son to drain the old fuel out of the gas caddy, but it never came up when I was with him, and I was gone when he filled the boat. Tough way to remind me / teach him a lesson, but at least I was able to sort it out without taking it to the dealer.

Anyway, really appreciate everyone taking the time to read this and provide feedback, hope everyone is having a good summer.

Scott

[oldjeep]

Awesome. I'd consider using Heet instead of seafoam, no reason to be fogging the lake if you are just trying to take care of water.