23 LSV wake vs. diamond hull opinions please

[chrisnorem]

Currently have a VTX (with diamond hull) and really like boat for skiing and surfing but it is too small now that whole family is hooked on surfing. It has a pretty respectable surf wave for a 20 footer but sits too low to water for me when loaded. We are on big water lake that can get rough really quickly which makes me nervous when I have the swim platform sunk and a bunch of people in boat.

We do still like to slalom though. I understand I have to give up something. Looking for opinions on 23 LSV with wake vs. diamond hull for skiing and surfing. It is my understanding I can also get the new 22VLX with either hull but have been told the LSV will actually ski better. Not sure if this is true. Anyone with pics of their LSV diamond hull ski wake I would love to see it. Thanks.

[Wayne]

If you ski avoid the wake hull. If you want to cross the wake with any sort of speed the wake hull is really nasty. I have posted comments on this forum about the wake versus diamond hull on a VTX. The wake hull is down right nasty for slalom skiing. If you are just back there for a joy ride and stay on one side or the other of the wake of would work but and aggressive cut is not possible.

[isellacuras]

I am in the camp of believing that there is a negligible difference between wake and diamond hulls at wake and surf speeds while being noticeable different at ski speeds. I know others on here feel differently. Seems to be a split camp about the wake/surf differences. If you want to continue to ski, it is a no brainer in my opinion. Diamond all the way. I can't help with pics as I have 2012 VLX which would not be helpful.

[chrisnorem]

My diamond hull VTX makes almost as good of a surf wave as my buddy's 23 ft MC X30 with Gen 2. His wave is just longer. But his boat is 3 feet longer and heavier. My wave has as much push and height. We are constantly having the MC vs. Bu debate. LOL. The X30 has does have a surprisingly soft wake that can be skied at speed which really surprised me for a 23 ft wake boat.

[Capdoogie]

I had the 2014 23lsv wake hull. And now I have the 2015 23lsv diamond hull. The only visible difference is the outer chimes on the hull that helps I guess with the boat planing at high speeds I.e. 25 and up. Plus no spray. We love the diamond hull. Our surf wave is awesome no step or overspray from the other side, just a beautiful wave. We think it's way better than the wake hull, go figure. Now for wakesurfing our resident very good boarder thinks the wave is just as good or a little better than the wake hull at boat speeds 22 or less, the faster we go above that you can tell that the wave softens. Approaching slalom speeds the wave is very low (well for a big 23 footer, lol) with no spray, 30 and up with the diamond hull. In our humble opinion we would always pick the diamond hull option now. Maybe if your a pro wakeboarder that sits in the 24 and up speeds the wake hull would be better? Considering that's all you do. Oh, we also feel our boat handles better with the diamond hull at cruise speeds.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Capdoogie

[Fman]

I would like to hear more on this, a close family member is starting to shop for a new boat. I figured the lsv even with a diamond hull is going to be tough to ski behind aggressively hitting the wake. The lsv is a heavy boat. He tried skiing behind my 22vlx with wake hull and it was disappointing at 31 mph, he had to slow down every time he went to cross the wake or he would be launching.

If the diamond did everything then why make a different hull at all? It would be a bummer to sacrafice the wakeboard wake for a mediocre at best slalom wake. After all its a wake boat.

[kx250frider617]

My buddies 14' diamond hull LSV has a relatively steep wakeboard wake even with wedge up. The transition is just a lot shorter than the wake hull. His ballast is only MLS full and 600's in the rear, so nothing crazy. He also skis behind it at 34mph pretty good, but I know absolutely nothing about skiing. The surf wave is insane though.

[bamabonners]

I had a vlx with wake, then a lsv with diamond. Lsv definitely had a better ski wake, but lower speed sports had no difference in wake.

[Fman]

Then why does malibu just do away with wake hull if there is no difference? Wouldn't they be better selling all boats with a diamond hull if the wake and surf were identical?

[mniba1]

I have a new 22 VLX with diamond hull. The wife and I are former slalom junkies that now enjoy surfing as we head into our hopefully no injury years. Do we miss our old Prostar 190, absolutely. With a bit of front ballast our new boat is just decent @ 30-32...

[IXFE]

I had a '12 VLX (wake) and a '13 VLX (diamond). I read up as much as I could on the differences before taking the plunge on the diamond hull... you know what I found? No perceptible difference in any of the disciplines. The ski wake on the '13 VLX diamond was nothing to write home about. In my opinion ski wake is the ONLY reason to get a diamond hull on these non-ski boats. If it's not dramatically better, what's the point? In my experience it was not.

I think guys who say the diamond is sooooo much better are either splitting hairs or imagining things. Just an opinion, so don't flame me.

Anyway, I've ordered wake hulls ever since cuz why would I continue on with the charade that a 23' 4500lb. boat could EVER be a decent slalom tug...?

Why does Bu continue to offer the diamond? Imho, it's to appeal to the guy who likes to ski but has a family who wants to surf. It's marketing. Basically telling the guy writing the check, "Don't worry, you can cheat physics and have it all."

Just go read the thread about 15 LSV props. That's a guy who bought a new LSV diamond and, surprise (not)... he's unhappy with the ski wake.

Edited July 10, 2015 by IXFE

[isellacuras]

I had a '12 VLX (wake) and a '13 VLX (diamond). I read up as much as I could on the differences before taking the plunge on the diamond hull... you know what I found? No perceptible difference in any of the disciplines. The ski wake on the '13 VLX diamond was nothing to write home about. In my opinion ski wake is the ONLY reason to get a diamond hull on these non-ski boats. If it's not dramatically better, what's the point? In my experience it was not.

I think guys who say the diamond is sooooo much better are either splitting hairs or imagining things. Just an opinion, so don't flame me.

Anyway, I've ordered wake hulls ever since cuz why would I continue on with the charade that a 23' 4500lb. boat could EVER be a decent slalom tug...?

Why does Bu continue to offer the diamond? Imho, it's to appeal to the guy who likes to ski but has a family who wants to surf. It's marketing. Basically telling the guy writing the check, "Don't worry, you can cheat physics and have it all."

Just go read the thread about 15 LSV props. That's a guy who bought a new LSV diamond and, surprise (not)... he's unhappy with the ski wake.

So just out of curiosity, why do you now continue to get the wake hull if there is no perceptible difference? Wouldn't it not matter? I fully agree with you there is no perceptible difference in wake or surf by the way. If malibu marketed that it was better at ski speeds, even if marginally, without compromising the slower speed sports, then why not get the diamond? Is there a resale value advantage in your area with the wake vs. diamond? My local dealer (no AWS) orders all floor inventory with the diamond hull which tells me it's an easier sell for them. Just seems that if the only advantage was higher speed handling (I understand the diamond has less tendency to porpoise although I can't substantiate that) and a marginally better ski wake with no compromises, the diamond would be the hull of choice.

[IXFE]

So just out of curiosity, why do you now continue to get the wake hull if there is no perceptible difference? Wouldn't it not matter? I fully agree with you there is no perceptible difference in wake or surf by the way. If malibu marketed that it was better at ski speeds, even if marginally, without compromising the slower speed sports, then why not get the diamond? Is there a resale value advantage in your area with the wake vs. diamond? My local dealer (no AWS) orders all floor inventory with the diamond hull which tells me it's an easier sell for them. Just seems that if the only advantage was higher speed handling (I understand the diamond has less tendency to porpoise although I can't substantiate that) and a marginally better ski wake with no compromises, the diamond would be the hull of choice.

I have the opposite view... why get the Diamond hull if there is no perceptible difference? Not worth constantly wondering, "would my surf wave be better if I had the wake hull?" And not worth having to explain to a potential buyer that the boat is not what they thought it was. Let's face it... very few buyers of the bigger boats are asking for diamond hulls. The reality is, most buyers (incl the ones buying at your dealer) don't even know there are two hulls available.

I just don't think you can have your cake and eat it too. It's a big a** surf boat. I choose to get the hull that maximizes what it's built for (even if only in people's minds).

We'll never know the truth on the differences. Way too subtle. So we're left with Internet folklore and people's perceptions.

[Fman]

So basically it sounds like the diamond hull is smoke and mirrors... I always order wake hull for the exact reason ixfe mentioned. And ironically the last boat I sold the buyer asked if it was a wake hull. He would not have purchased if it was a diamond hull.

[isellacuras]

He would not have purchased if it was a diamond hull.

You say that but.... I was dead set on getting a wake hull because I was getting a wakeboard boat, not a ski boat. Well? I have a diamond. After researching it during the buying process, and after my demo, I realized that I would not ever be good enough to have the wake hold me back. Especially after hearing of the blind taste test results which may have been some of the folklore IXFE speaks of. I am still in the camp of negligible differences in all aspects so it doesn't really matter one way or another. I will stick to my recommendation to the OP of the diamond hull for the reason IXFE listed as his own reason for buying a wake hull, to avoid the "Would the diamond have been better for my ski wake?"

[IXFE]

You say that but.... I was dead set on getting a wake hull because I was getting a wakeboard boat, not a ski boat. Well? I have a diamond. After researching it during the buying process, and after my demo, I realized that I would not ever be good enough to have the wake hold me back. Especially after hearing of the blind taste test results which may have been some of the folklore IXFE speaks of. I am still in the camp of negligible differences in all aspects so it doesn't really matter one way or another. I will stick to my recommendation to the OP of the diamond hull for the reason IXFE listed as his own reason for buying a wake hull, to avoid the "Would the diamond have been better for my ski wake?"

Ahhh yes, the much discussed blind taste test. It's funny cuz were all talking to the same people and reading the same threads.

IDK... maybe the diamond will make for a skiable wake at the right speed. It's been a few years since I had mine so my recollection is a it bit foggy.

I'd certainly never fault anyone for ordering it. And I had no trouble selling mine.

EDIT: that's actually pretty cool you were able to demo a diamond hull. Other than vtx boats, the diamonds don't exist in our market so I had to order my VLX diamond on blind faith. My dealer thought I was nuts.

Edited July 10, 2015 by IXFE

[chrisnorem]

Since deep down I am still a skier at heart I fall in the "why not?" camp. If the diamond hull helps even a little at my 33-34 mph slalom speed why not get it? I haven't seen anything negative about its performance at surf speeds.

[Fman]

You say that but.... I was dead set on getting a wake hull because I was getting a wakeboard boat, not a ski boat. Well? I have a diamond. After researching it during the buying process, and after my demo, I realized that I would not ever be good enough to have the wake hold me back. Especially after hearing of the blind taste test results which may have been some of the folklore IXFE speaks of. I am still in the camp of negligible differences in all aspects so it doesn't really matter one way or another. I will stick to my recommendation to the OP of the diamond hull for the reason IXFE listed as his own reason for buying a wake hull, to avoid the "Would the diamond have been better for my ski wake?"

All I know is my boat sold because of the wake hull to this specific buyer. He did not slalom ski and wanted the best possible wakeboard and surf wave which in his eyes was the wake hull. Infact, he even made a sarcastic comment "this isn't a skisetter" right? I feel the same way, I just feel better owning the wake hull knowing it will produce the best possible wake and surf wave. Even if it is marginally better, it's a wakeboat and all we do is wakeboard and surf.

Most buyers probably will not even realize there are two different hull options. My buyer did a lot of research and homework on the wake vs diamond and came to the conclusion wake hull was a better fit for him.

Edited July 10, 2015 by Fman

[robbennett]

Get the wake hull and pick up a nice used ski boat for 5-10k and have the best of both worlds.

[rugger]

Best advice on this site is still the same: Test drive them and see what works for you. I went from direct drive Malibu ski boat to a 23 lsv diamond hull and was pleasantly surprised how good the ski wake could still be. Mine, however, is the older 23 lsv which is 22.5' and quite a bit lighter than the newer 23s. I bought this model for this reason at the time. I cannot speak to skiing behind the newer 23s. I've been told there's a little more sacrifice in ski wake, but obviously the trade off is better wakeboard and surfing from the bigger, badder 23s. If I were buying today, I'd go bigger and would not be afraid to buy wake hull because I rarely ski last few years.

If you still ski, get a diamond though. No one is in disagreement about that one.

[IXFE]

If you still ski, get a diamond though. No one is in disagreement about that one.

Yes... agree 100% so long as the OP doesn't expect a miracle.

Honestly, I'm not hating guys... just setting realistic expectations. Most people can't get a back to back demo on a wake vs. diamond hull.

[wedge88]

I cannot report on the LSV hull but everyone told me our new A22 would ski horrible (we were coming from an 04 SSLXI (one of the best ski tractors), and I ski at 34-35mph and our A22 skis extremely well. My parents have a TXi and my dad tried our boat as well figuring it would be bad but agreed that the wake is extremely soft and you'll want to adjust rope to be in front of rooster tail. I use to run the course regularly at shorter line lengths. This may not help the OP but "Good Ski Wake" is extremely subjective. I wouldn't want to regularly run the course in my A22 but if there is one nearby next week while we are on vacation, I would like to try as I think I could do it at 22 off and the crew is the first place I would post the video. Here's to hoping.

[ahopkins22LSV]

I cannot report on the LSV hull but everyone told me our new A22 would ski horrible (we were coming from an 04 SSLXI (one of the best ski tractors), and I ski at 34-35mph and our A22 skis extremely well. My parents have a TXi and my dad tried our boat as well figuring it would be bad but agreed that the wake is extremely soft and you'll want to adjust rope to be in front of rooster tail. I use to run the course regularly at shorter line lengths. This may not help the OP but "Good Ski Wake" is extremely subjective. I wouldn't want to regularly run the course in my A22 but if there is one nearby next week while we are on vacation, I would like to try as I think I could do it at 22 off and the crew is the first place I would post the video. Here's to hoping.

So much of a ski wake judgement is also how the skier skis, if a skier is also going across the wakes flat I don't care what boat you are behind, it's going to bounce you. So technique has a lot to do with it as well. I l ow guys that ski behind boats that I would consider to have a big bump that still ski just as good as they would behind a new ski boat.

[wedge88]

So much of a ski wake judgement is also how the skier skis, if a skier is also going across the wakes flat I don't care what boat you are behind, it's going to bounce you. So technique has a lot to do with it as well. I l ow guys that ski behind boats that I would consider to have a big bump that still ski just as good as they would behind a new ski boat.

+1 Agreed

[ahopkins22LSV]

+1 Agreed

I agreed with what you were saying too. Just wanted to add to it.