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2014 t22 ballast addition


mattmed03

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I have a conundrum. I (for some reason) thought I had plug in play installed from factory. Ordered a left rear bag and a bow sac and fittings to install for plug in play. Come to find out I do not have plug in play. Dealer wants to charge me 2250 for install. I laughed. I am looking for a schematic or sketch of hose setup, pump location, etc so that I can do it my self.

I have searched thru axis and Malibucrew forums but have found nothing but plug and play installs. Have watched videos of installs on plug in at boats (Malibu and axis) and have a general ideA of how to install but I would like to know how best to tap in to factory tubes so that I may continue to use factory pumps for fill/drain.

Any help would be appreciated ?

Matt

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That's what the wake makers.com guys told us to do. We all surf goofy footed. I can easily order the right rear sac with any further supplies I need. And yes we are relatively new to the sport (only started last year).

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That's what the wake makers.com guys told us to do. We all surf goofy footed. I can easily order the right rear sac with any further supplies I need. And yes we are relatively new to the sport (only started last year).

Incorrect...you have a Surfgate boat, you weight the rear equally (you can very slightly lean the boat but that's so slight it's almost unnoticeable). That's the whole purpose of surfgate...to not list the boat to one side and/or to be able to switch sides while surfing. I mean, how would you switch sides while surfing if you have all your weight on one side. You really really need to research more on what you have and don't have. Either your dealer left you in the dark, you didn't know a thing about surfgate or wakeboats, or a little of both your dealer and you didn't ask the right questions.

Did you buy a new leftover or is your boat preowned?

Edited by AJWest
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Do you have surfgate?

They may be recommending you to list the boat if you don't have gates

True...that would be a first I've heard a 2014 built without surfgate. I mesn I know it's optional but that would surely have to be a custom order, no way a dealer would order a showroom boat without it.

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Good info. I have a 2014 with surfgate and stock ballast. We ordered it custom. They (the dealer) recommended against the plug and play if I'm not mistaken when we ordered for what we wanted to do with the boat. We have become more interested in surfing and therefore the goal to get a bigger/better wake without having a boat full of people. I have always been told (even with surfgate) is that you want more weight to the side of surfing...

I would prefer to use the stock system as much as possible. Not to interested in drilling.

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you're not going to get near a good surf wake without the PnP system unless you have 10-12 adults in your T22 and then place them strategically. Most people are using 2250lbs-2500lbs of ballast in addition to the stock system and their crew to get good surf wakes. Sorry you were so misinformed about your boat but you were. Youll be wasting your time trying to surf with just the hard tank stock system and a few people. You need TWO rear sacks and the bow sack added however you feel like doing it. I don't know who you are getting your info from about listing (leaning) your surfgate boat over with one sack but that is totally incorrect. Sounds like you got into your boat without truly knowing what the possibilities or capabilities were when you ordered it. I can see ordering your boat without surfgate when you did not order the PnP system as some people only want to wakeboard and never surf. However, you ordered WITH surfgate but no PnP system and you don't go out with a big crew. Without the PnP system and with surfgate your boat is almost useless for surfing without a huge crew of people. Seems like you went with your dealers advice in not getting the PnP option and are now paying for it...literally. PnP option from my dealer is $465 if ordered with boat. If you thought you ordered it as you stated in your original post, did you not review your order sheet before signing and submitting the final build? Good luck in your decision on how to get the added sacks but bottom line is you need them.

Edited by AJWest
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I have a 15' t22. My surf setup is 3100lbs of ballast plus the wedge and about 6 adults. I keep the weight perfectly even and just flip the surf gate. I think you could get a surfable wave with the stock ballast but you will need a bigger board and would prob have to go slower so you will not have a very clean wave. As far as adding the bags. What about removing the stock hard tanks in the rear and use existing plumbing for a big bag like an 1100. I know wake makers has a "tank buster" kit for malibus. Just a thought. Then you would only need to plumb the front bag if you wanted. But if your crew is small just use a bow bag on top of the seats wth an overboard pump. Good luck

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Not having plug n play on any Axis boat is a complete waste of time. They needs tons of weight to get the wake right. Especially bow weight. Unless you have a huge crew in your boat to move all over the place you are leaving tons of potential off the table not having the ballast bags.

Edited by pook77
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Agree with the PnP comments. I have 750's in the rear. I fill the non-surf side to 80%. Surf side full. I fill center tank, but not the front, wedge, and surf-gate. We surf normal side.

Since you are all goofy foot you can weight the rears evenly (full). Because the way the prop affects the wave, the goofy side is always a slightly better surf wave (Axis and Malibu boats).

It's all about experimenting with the ballast to fine tune to wave to your likes. Without PnP, while the wave is o.k. you will not be happy with it. I demoed the A22 last summer and loved the surf wave. When I found a '14 lurking at the dealer just before summer season, I ordered up the fly high bags that they had in their demo boat.

That's why you see countless posts on this and other forums about demo'ing the boat you are looking to purchase. If you don't it's hard to know how the boat is going to fit your wants and needs.

Not much you can do about it now. Just figure out the best way to install ballast bags. Gonna cost you some $$$ but in the end you will be much happier with your boat.

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You guys are getting redundant he knows he needs the extra ballast. He's asking for help installing it, not to get lectured on what he needs or should have done.

And yes the axis can be ordered without surf gate. Surfgate is an added option like PNP that a dealer could forget to order when custom ordering these boats.

Matt I will help you.

I have yet to see an Axis without the PNP system. But my guess is the rear hard tanks are different as the PNP system have extra drain ports (x2 each side) going into the top of the rear hard tanks. Or if you are so lucky they are just plugged with a nylon pipe plug in the top of the tank at the rear transom cover. And at the forward outboard corner of the rear tanks. If you remove the 2 philips screws from the back rear floor covers you will easily be able to tell. This is where the hardtack drain pump sits.

First the rear sacs.

Now depending if you have the drains in the top of the tanks this will dictate how your going to plumb the sacs. The ultimate goal is to have the fill hose coming off the vented loop(fill) go into the top of your sac. (now if you have the extra drains you will use a Y-fitting to allow you to fill the sac and hard tank at the same time, malibu also uses a valve that goes after the y and strictly for the bag, that honestly is useless) The drain on the front and rear of your bags will go to the extra drains in the top of your hard tanks if they are there. NOTE** And even if they aren't or your afraid to get that deep into the upgrade. Take your sac drain and run it to where the vented loop/fll normally filled the hard tank. This will achieve all the same things as the factory PNP system just be a little slower to drain. The factory vent hose must stay attached to the hard tank. To simplify, fill the sac theoretically first, which drains into the hard tank. gravity will drain the sac back into the hard tank when you drain the system

The bow sac, well thats a different ball game and without knowing exactly what you doing leave that to the dealer. there is an extensive amount of hoses to correctly run. A through hull and fill to add to the bottom of the boat. 1 Drain and 1 vent to the starboard deck. Plus the electrical side. Again never seeing one setup with out the pnp option. You may have to add the switch to the dash for fill and drain of the bow sac. The boat side harness will have the wiring for the pumps regardless as the wiring harness is the same with or without PNP. Just the switch and pumps will need to be added. Along with the hoses and plumbing.

Hope this helps. But don't just install rear bags because you can do it yourself and cut the corner of not having the bow bag installed. You need that weight up front.

Edited by PILSNER
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Thanks. That helps a bunch and makes complete sense. I did some more perusing, taking covers off, etc. I do see a plugged drain on top of rear tanks. Also looked at the center tank thru the center bilge/drain plug hole and kinda came to the conclusion that you did. Looks to be pain in a$$. I will probably just add a bow sac on seats with over the boat pump until winter and have them do it then.

The instructions for the older Malibu was also helpful. It is pretty darn close to that as well.

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  • 2 years later...

I may be buying a 2011 A20 without PNP - took a photo of the rear compartment and I don't think I can see PNP connectors.  Do you think I should look into retro-fitting PNG or just go with bags and external overboard pumps?  Many thanks

 

 

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Its really not that tough.  If you don't have PNP in the rear you have a tank will a fill, drain and vent.  In  the PNP set up the tubing from the fill goes up to a high point in a vented loop anti siphon valve, down to the bag to fill.  You connect the drain of the bag to the tank in some manner as you choose.  (I'll explain below).  The tank stays connected to the vent.  I also simply connected my bag vent via a wye to the tank vent to ensure I don't have to manually burp the bags.  No sweat there either.

Now for the manner of connecting the drain of the bag to the tank - Standard back then was drain of bag to fill of tank.  This downfall here is emptying.  The tank is drained via the drain pump when you hit the switch.  The bag is drained by draining into the tank and then out via the pump.  Unfortunately, the tank drains faster than the bag with the tubing size that was used.  So you end up draining the tank multiple times to empty the entire system.  Drain till tank is empty, wait for tank to drain portion of bag, drain tank till empty, wait.... 

To avoid this I much prefer changing the drain pump (attached to the back of the tank in my 2012) body to a dual inlet body.  You change what you HAVE to what I USE.  The pump body is now connected as normal to the tank and also to the drain of the bag.  So, you fill the same.  Water flows into the bag and then drains into the tank via the drain pump body.  Both the tank and bag are vented as you choose.  The benefit comes when you drain the system.  This ensures the drain pump is draining all water when on - it doesn't have to wait for the tank to fill with water from the bag.  It just drains what runs into the pump body, which is both the bag and tank water.

Finally, the front bag is it's own entire system.  It is not connected to the center tank at all.  There is no point in adding big bags to the rear if you are not going to balance the boat with weight in the front.  Good luck.

  • Like 3
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NP.  Come back with any questions. If you have to do a front bag with new pumps, I'd consider going straight to a reversible.  I have the pnp bag in the front and a reversible for on the bow.  The reversible can empty or fill a 1000 lb bag before I can fill or drain the arrow bag (probably 650 lbs) with shurflo piranhas.

  • Like 2
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  • 3 years later...
On 5/26/2018 at 2:06 PM, onwi said:

NP.  Come back with any questions. If you have to do a front bag with new pumps, I'd consider going straight to a reversible.  I have the pnp bag in the front and a reversible for on the bow.  The reversible can empty or fill a 1000 lb bag before I can fill or drain the arrow bag (probably 650 lbs) with shurflo piranhas.

Axis newbie here. Piggyback system with 600 fly highs.  When i fill my rear bags up once the hard tanks are full the bags will begin to fill but it starts to drain. Once you shut off the fill you can see the bags draining and the stops once it gets to a certain level? Is this a syphoning issue?

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2 hours ago, WalkerTexasRanger said:

Axis newbie here. Piggyback system with 600 fly highs.  When i fill my rear bags up once the hard tanks are full the bags will begin to fill but it starts to drain. Once you shut off the fill you can see the bags draining and the stops once it gets to a certain level? Is this a syphoning issue?

I had a similar issue with my 2014 T22. I first lifted the ballast lines high in the rear of the boat, then eventually rerouted the ballast lines. 

 

Edited by teamerickson
  • Thanks 1
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4 hours ago, teamerickson said:

I had a similar issue with my 2014 T22. I first lifted the ballast lines high in the rear of the boat, then eventually rerouted the ballast lines. 

 

My man, thanks for the response on such a dated thread. 

  • Like 1
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