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Piggy back system reviews


timelinex

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2 hours ago, gobble said:

Since I don't have the Y's yet, I plan to test this when I get home tonight. It's incomplete on the drain part but would be a good test on the fill side.

301d6f49-2653-40c4-a76f-e3dbe675539f.jpg

 
 

That's how my boat came and the drain time is slooooooow.  I would drain for a half hour and bags would still be half full and we would have the boat home in the driveway and I could still hear the slow trickle of water from the bag to the tank. 

 

I put a "T" on the drain so it drains tank and bag at the same time and it's much better but the pressure from having the pump fill the tank first pushes a lot of water out of the drain pump when filling so the fill times are slower.  I have to lean over the side and cover the drain hole to speed up the fill times.......and that is why I am abandoning it and adding a dedicated fill and drain pump for bag and tank.

Edited by vanamp
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4 hours ago, gobble said:

Since I don't have the Y's yet, I plan to test this when I get home tonight. It's incomplete on the drain part but would be a good test on the fill side.

301d6f49-2653-40c4-a76f-e3dbe675539f.jpg

Well it works but it doesn't. It fills the hard tank to 100% in 1 minute and 7 seconds. Then it starts to fill the bag, and it does fill the bag. However, some water starts flowing out the drain on the side of the boat. There must be so much pressure pushing water into the tank that it pushes some water past the drain pump. It completely fills a 600 pound Sumo sac in 12 minutes though.

Maybe my option where I Y the fill line into a second hose between the bag and tank will help lessen some of that pressure because the water has a second path to the bag once the hard tank is full? I'll try that once I get the Y connectors.

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14 hours ago, vanamp said:

That's how my boat came and the drain time is slooooooow.  I would drain for a half hour and bags would still be half full and we would have the boat home in the driveway and I could still hear the slow trickle of water from the bag to the tank. 

 

I put a "T" on the drain so it drains tank and bag at the same time and it's much better but the pressure from having the pump fill the tank first pushes a lot of water out of the drain pump when filling so the fill times are slower.  I have to lean over the side and cover the drain hole to speed up the fill times.......and that is why I am abandoning it and adding a dedicated fill and drain pump for bag and tank.

I do have a dedicated drain pump for both bag and tank.... I am looking for a better fill setup... do you have fill issues and what type of pumps are you using?

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1 hour ago, kerpluxal said:

I do have a dedicated drain pump for both bag and tank.... I am looking for a better fill setup... do you have fill issues and what type of pumps are you using?

I started with the gravity drain setup but draining was too slow.  Then I put a T in for draining bag and tank at same time. Drain times improved but the added pressure of tank vent filling bag pushes a lot of water past drain pump and increased fill time. 

 

So I am adding Shurflo 1100 to fill bag and leaving factory Shurflo 800 to fill tank.  I only have single drain Shurflo 800 and am adding an 1100 for draining bag.  The goal being to keep everything separated  to eliminate any problems  

I will be installing sometime in the next few Weeks.

 

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On July 21, 2016 at 9:16 AM, gobble said:

Guys, I played around a little bit with drawing pictures that attempt to fix the air lock problem. One diagram Y's an extra fill line and another Y's an extra vent line. Which do you think will work better?

2ed4e612-410a-4e1e-9a3c-72dbb32647c5.jpg

This works. It fills the hard tank 100% full in 2.5 minutes and total fill time including the bag is 12 minutes. No water forced through the drain during fill. I'm guessing I could decrease the fill time if Y'd a second fill line to the bag. Drain time is 8 min. 

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18 hours ago, gobble said:

This works. It fills the hard tank 100% full in 2.5 minutes and total fill time including the bag is 12 minutes. No water forced through the drain during fill. I'm guessing I could decrease the fill time if Y'd a second fill line to the bag. Drain time is 8 min. 

Does it stop filling once the hard tank is full though ? Does this require valve? Isn't this the same setup as wakemakers but a Y on the fill line 

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2 hours ago, SnubNose said:

Does it stop filling once the hard tank is full though ? Does this require valve? Isn't this the same setup as wakemakers but a Y on the fill line 

Once the hard tank is full it starts to fill the bag. Wakemakers setup has the fill going to the bag with the two bag drains going to the tank. This doesn't work because the tank gets air locked and doesn't fill.

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1 hour ago, gobble said:

Once the hard tank is full it starts to fill the bag. Wakemakers setup has the fill going to the bag with the two bag drains going to the tank. This doesn't work because the tank gets air locked and doesn't fill.

There's a Y so wouldn't it go to both sides of Y ie bag and hard tank 

Why is the fill line going to bottom of bag and not top

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14 minutes ago, SnubNose said:

There's a Y so wouldn't it go to both sides of Y ie bag and hard tank 

Why is the fill line going to bottom of bag and not top

Because of the direction of the Y. The fill doubles as s drain. 

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10 minutes ago, gobble said:

Because of the direction of the Y. The fill doubles as s drain. 

So why would it fill hard tank first and bag second. It would send water to both parts of Y

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Check out the picture above and the orientation of the Y. That's exactly what I did. To fill the bag water needs to shoot backwards up the Y and it won't do that until the tank is full.

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1 hour ago, gobble said:

Check out the picture above and the orientation of the Y. That's exactly what I did. To fill the bag water needs to shoot backwards up the Y and it won't do that until the tank is full.

Once The Hard Tank Registers It's Full Doesn't It Automatically Turn Off Pump 

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Yes, they sent me them for free. The pump doesn't shut off and if you look at the hard tank it's not 100% full when the gauge hits 100%. It still takes a little time to fill those last few inches.

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7 minutes ago, gobble said:

Yes, they sent me them for free. The pump doesn't shut off and if you look at the hard tank it's not 100% full when the gauge hits 100%. It still takes a little time to fill those last few inches.

Did you call them and tell them it fixed the problem? They said they would retroactively replace every customers system once they solved the issue 

What if you Y fill line. Then one line to hard tank with Y to bag bottom ando another to hard tank with Y to bag bottom. So 3 Y each side to maximize fill and drain. Then cap one bag top hole and the other bag hole vent. 

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On 7/22/2016 at 6:57 PM, gobble said:

This works. It fills the hard tank 100% full in 2.5 minutes and total fill time including the bag is 12 minutes. No water forced through the drain during fill. I'm guessing I could decrease the fill time if Y'd a second fill line to the bag. Drain time is 8 min. 

Gobble.... thank you so much for your time and efforts.... that makes total sense to me now.... Drain time in 8 minutes??? for both???? now I must find the time to do the same :yahoo:

 

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What you guys think about Y for both sides of bag ? 2x fill and both double as drain. 

Gobble will you tell us how you cut the wakemakers hose and rigged it up. Maybe post some pics ? I'm new to ballast and it would make it a lot easier! 

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9 minutes ago, SnubNose said:

What you guys think about Y for both sides of bag ? 2x fill and both double as drain. 

Gobble will you tell us how you cut the wakemakers hose and rigged it up. Maybe post some pics ? I'm new to ballast and it would make it a lot easier! 

I am not sure on your question on adding another y. When the tank is full, it will fill from 2 locations of the tank to 2 locations on the bag (one from the y, and the other from the old vent of hard tank that is now plumbed to the bag). 

As for cutting the hose, depends on how clean of cut you want... you can cut with knife, box cutters, sheet metal shears, specific hose cutters... I use a pair of fiskar multipurpose scissors...

for a cleaner and safer result, use crimp clamps instead of screw clamps... wakemakers has these and I also found them at lowes.

Edited by kerpluxal
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1 minute ago, kerpluxal said:

I am not sure on your question on adding another y. When the tank is full, it will fill from 2 locations of the tank to 2 locations on the bag (one from the y, and the other from the old vent of hard tank that is now plumbed to the bag). 

As for cutting the hose, depends on how clean of cut you want... you can cut with knife, box cutters, sheet metal shears, specific hose cutters... I use a pair of fiskar multipurpose scissors...

for a cleaner and safer result, use crimp clamps instead of screw clamps... wakemakers has these and I also found them at lowes.

Gobble said he could decrease fill time if he Y d second fill line to bag 

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10 minutes ago, SnubNose said:

Gobble said he could decrease fill time if he Y d second fill line to bag 

I think he is referring to y to y... so it fills bag and tank at same time.. then when tank is full... bag would fill from bottom and top.. 

adding a y to the vent line to act as fill port also "What you guys think about Y for both sides of bag ? 2x fill and both double as drain. " will cause again to airlock... you need air to escape from the tank as it fills. Also, there is already 2 drains from bag to tank

This second y had no effect on drain, and there is no other way to  increase drain efficiency in his diagram unless you add more holes to your hard tank as the 2016+ do (4 total).. his mockup shows 3 (one fill, one vent, one drain) and they are utilized....

To increase your fill time and drain time... you might as well plumb them separately,  you will need 2 more pumps... 

Sorry... don't have a way right now to draw up those pretty pics that gobble made to explain :(

 

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No add Y from hard tank to bottom of bag. With the other end of Y being the fill. 2 Y on bottom both acting as drain and fill. Don't touch vent

Or are you saying the line that goes from hard tank to bag is the vent ? 

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9 minutes ago, SnubNose said:

No add Y from hard tank to bottom of bag. With the other end of Y being the fill. 2 Y on bottom both acting as drain and fill. Don't touch vent

This is where you are losing me :( "2 Y on bottom both acting as drain and fill"

 

The first Y is already a drain and fill... there are 2 drain ports on bottom of bag... there are 2 ports on top of tank... each port on top of tank goes to each port on bottom of bag... one port with a y to fill and drain... other port vents tank into bag... when tank is full... both ports fill bag.... when draining... both ports drain into tank.... 

Adding a second y anywhere will airlock the system

Case 1

fill line

  1. From fill to y1
    1. This y will fill top of bag and go to second y
  2. y1 to y2
  3. y2 to bottom of bag and tank

Vent line

  1. from tank to bag 
  2. bag to thru hull

issue... as bag fills at the same time of tank.... you will no longer have a vent from tank to bag (water will already be in bag...)

Case 2

adding y to both bottom ports of the bag.... you will also need to add another y or t.... this will be filling both ports of the tank and no where for the air to escape.. again air locked.

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Ok I understand now. Can't make the hard tank vent line into a Y fill line because we will have same air lock problem. I called wakemAkers and told them gobbler system and they think it will work great but they are worried if you have a big bag then that's a lot of pressure for pump to push against. I only.have 600s so I should.be fine. They sent me 2 Y s and 6 clamps. 

 

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