JL AUDIO 900/5 VS ALPINE PDX-V9

[happypappy]

I am looking for stereo advice. Sad to say that Boston Acoustics no longer in the auto speaker business. Loved the Pro60 speakers.

I am installing a system in a recently purchased boat.

And was planning on 4 Boston pro60 and a JL audio 900/5 amp to drive the speakers and sub.

So now I have to look at comparable speakers and am looking to the JL and Focals.

Looking at amps, the Alpine PDX-v9 popped up….same output as the JL 900/5. 100x4 rms + 500x1 rms for the sub.

Have gone with the JL amps in the last couple of boats, never had a problem, sound great and from what I have read ALWAYS outperform the listed specs!

ANyone have any experience with the alpine amp? and thoughts about how the 2 compare. the alpine is cheaper, and I have had alpine amps before and liked them. They 2 always worked great and never had a problem…..sometimes too much info is worse than not enough.

OR any other 5 channel amp!!

Edited February 16, 2014 by happypappy

[shawndoggy]

no experience but the reviews look good. Go for it and let us know what you think.

[Nitrousbird]

Not quite as powerful as that JL, but at 1/4 the price this is a very good sounding amp:

PPI 900.5

Honestly, for the kind of money that JL goes for I would just get a dedicated 4 channel and mono amp and have more power on both.

For bang for the buck, PPI 900.4 @ $180 and PPI 1000.1 @ 180. $360 and making way more power than the single JL.

Want a bigger name brand and stick with a 5 channel? Why not the new Exile Audio Javelin? Similar power and save a couple hundred bucks.

You can get that Alpine for $500, so not a bad deal either.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Nitrousbird

[David]

Here is what makes the JL Audio HD900/5 special. It is strictly regulated on both the power supply and output sections. So regardless of the voltage supply or load impedance, the JL will not decline in power. It's also a matter of SQ, having an audio section that has a dependable supply voltage. You can imagine that the tolerances would otherwise vary greatly as the voltage could be anywhere from less than 12 to over 13 volts....although the SQ factor will not be as critical in a boat. The JL Audio HD also has separate power supplies for the 4-channel highpass and sub sections so it is like two discrete amplifiers in a single chassis. The one issue that you need to be cautious of is you want to restrict your highpass satellites to 4-ohms. That means staying away from two 4-ohm speakers in parallel on highpass channels or staying away from scenarios where the front and rear channels are different load impedances. Btw, it doesn't matter on the sub side and wouldn't be a factor if there was room for separate front and rear power supplies as you have in the HD600/4. If that would be a problem then look into the JL Audio XD1000/5 unregulated amplifier, which is also less cost. Most of the XD series test 35% better than their ratings. Another nice aspect of the JL Audio amplifier product is that they are totally domestically engineered. The JL Audio staff has been making Class D amplifiers for over 15 years. The engineering staff includes the previous owner and head electical engineer from the original Precision Power and Xtant, plus members of the early Rockford Fosgate and Phoenix Gold staffs. In fact, Phoenix, Arizona was the center of a majority of early mobile amplifier innovation. The JL Audio fullrange Class D (as an analog switching topology) switch at over 400kHz which is at least 20 times beyond the audible bandwidth. This ensures there are no audible artifacts from the amplifier. JL's proprietary feedback loop also samples and corrects at over 400kHz. These are the best sounding Class D amplifiers. They stay warm sounding with robust bass as other amplifiers begin to sound thin as the voltage sags.

Alpine was one of the early adopters of fullrange Class D and the PDX series has been one of the best products in class since its introduction. They have tons of experience with this and are on multiple versions in their Class D evolution. This is not one of those amplifiers sharing a platform with a half dozen other brands.

[nyryan2001]

While not power regulated.... The Digital Designs 5 channel SS5 is the one that always stood out to me. Stomps out the others RMS power wise.

For the coin these others cost.... You don't even meet the RMS specs of the WS, or Exile inboat speakers on the JL at 100w per channel, maybe half?... While RMS watts don't tell the whole story, RMS power matters, DD amps can't be sniped sound quality wise like the cheapies.... They are pricey, but you def get twice the RMS of the others.... And sq to match.

My 2 cents.

[happypappy]

Here is what makes the JL Audio HD900/5 special. It is strictly regulated on both the power supply and output sections. So regardless of the voltage supply or load impedance, the JL will not decline in power. It's also a matter of SQ, having an audio section that has a dependable supply voltage. You can imagine that the tolerances would otherwise vary greatly as the voltage could be anywhere from less than 12 to over 13 volts....although the SQ factor will not be as critical in a boat. The JL Audio HD also has separate power supplies for the 4-channel highpass and sub sections so it is like two discrete amplifiers in a single chassis. The one issue that you need to be cautious of is you want to restrict your highpass satellites to 4-ohms. That means staying away from two 4-ohm speakers in parallel on highpass channels or staying away from scenarios where the front and rear channels are different load impedances. Btw, it doesn't matter on the sub side and wouldn't be a factor if there was room for separate front and rear power supplies as you have in the HD600/4. If that would be a problem then look into the JL Audio XD1000/5 unregulated amplifier, which is also less cost. Most of the XD series test 35% better than their ratings. Another nice aspect of the JL Audio amplifier product is that they are totally domestically engineered. The JL Audio staff has been making Class D amplifiers for over 15 years. The engineering staff includes the previous owner and head electical engineer from the original Precision Power and Xtant, plus members of the early Rockford Fosgate and Phoenix Gold staffs. In fact, Phoenix, Arizona was the center of a majority of early mobile amplifier innovation. The JL Audio fullrange Class D (as an analog switching topology) switch at over 400kHz which is at least 20 times beyond the audible bandwidth. This ensures there are no audible artifacts from the amplifier. JL's proprietary feedback loop also samples and corrects at over 400kHz. These are the best sounding Class D amplifiers. They stay warm sounding with robust bass as other amplifiers begin to sound thin as the voltage sags.

Alpine was one of the early adopters of fullrange Class D and the PDX series has been one of the best products in class since its introduction. They have tons of experience with this and are on multiple versions in their Class D evolution. This is not one of those amplifiers sharing a platform with a half dozen other brands.

I always appreciate your input David..although occasionally don't understand all of it. The cliff notes: jl audio is good sheet!! and ya get what ya pay for. Not crazy about spending the money, but as with the speakers, I am getting components that will sound great, and last.

I did notice on the Crutchfield site, comparing the THD…Alpine was .1%, while the JL was .03%. The outputs are the same, size about the same as you'd expect.

And maybe the 1000/5 is what is replacing the 900/5?? more is always better when dealing with stereo and engines!!

Edited February 16, 2014 by happypappy

[David]

Quote, "I did notice on the Crutchfield site, comparing the THD…Alpine was .1%, while the JL was .03%. The outputs are the same, size about the same as you'd expect."

THD isn't audible in that area. THD is not an abrasive form of distortion like other types of transient, intermodulation, or dynamic distortions. If they rate total distortion at 1 kHz, like they rate power, it means very little. It would have to be stipulated at 20 to 20 kHz to be more meaningful.

As for power, I hate to tell you this but most people don't understand specs enough to know that 90% of specs are unqualified and mean little.

The Alpine amplifier is comparable with a 14.4V supply but will drop 25 to 30% with a 12.5V supply. With most amplifiers, the power drops by a healthy percentage at 100 Hz as compared to 1 kHz (where the rating is taken). The power drops even farther at 40 Hz as compared to 100 Hz. You need the power most at the bottom end of the spectrum and you certainly won't get the rated power with the available voltage in a boat....unless you have the regulated JL Audio HD.

One channel will put out much less power when all channels are driven versus in isolation. But they don't rate, test or review the amplifiers with ALL channels driven.

Power specs are taken with a passive load resistor. That doesn't tell how an amplifier interacts with a speaker that has a back EMF (reflected force back at the amplifier terminals). Every dynamic speaker is also a poor microphone and either sends power back to the amplifier or modulates the power.

Many amplifiers don't even meet spec because there is no governing body to enforce compliance. CEA is a standard but enforces nothing. Others just barely meet spec.

So if you are going to live and die by specs you should know more about them.

The JL Audio HD will deliver the rated power or more at any supply voltage and is rated conservatively enough and is robust enough that it will deliver that power over a broad bandwidth.

The JL Audio XD series is typically under-rated by 35% and will still deliver its 14.4V power with a 12.5V supply. Just look in on the PasMag review of the JL XD500/3. But they have to be rated this conservatively because they give you a target output voltage to set the input gain. And they know people will probably be tuning their systems at 12.5V while at rest. Try taking another amplifier brand and setting the output voltage according to the power rating while at rest. Yes, it will hard clip.

Quote, "And maybe the 1000/5 is what is replacing the 900/5?? more is always better when dealing with stereo and engines!!"

This isn't a replacement. These are two different series with two different objectives in mind. The XD1000/5 will do what any other 5-channel amplifier will do in power and do it cleaner. JL Audio is the only domestic brand that actual has electronic engineers on staff.

Most everything else is a China or N. Korea or Asian import and the domestic companies buy existing platforms. Wetsounds differs using a domestic design house (Robert Zeff with Nikola Engineering....Robert was the original owner/designer of Zapco). Audison is an exception with great inside engineering. Alpine actually has great engineering in Japan (also used to be in high end home HiFi - Luxman), although their decision to go mass market has left them in a really bad position now and they presently need a direction. Their products have become more price point based to compete on the shelves of Best Buy (that means sold by Best Buy clerks and purchased by the Best Buy customer). But it's still under the original Alpine.

[shawndoggy]

LOL! I did not know that NORTH Korea was in the car audio game until now. Learn something every day!

[David]

LOL! I did not know that NORTH Korea was in the car audio game until now. Learn something every day!

Too funny. I meant SOUTH. But maybe Rodman has introduced some new trade that I'm not aware of either.

[happypappy]

Quote, "I did notice on the Crutchfield site, comparing the THD…Alpine was .1%, while the JL was .03%. The outputs are the same, size about the same as you'd expect."

THD isn't audible in that area. THD is not an abrasive form of distortion like other types of transient, intermodulation, or dynamic distortions. If they rate total distortion at 1 kHz, like they rate power, it means very little. It would have to be stipulated at 20 to 20 kHz to be more meaningful.

As for power, I hate to tell you this but most people don't understand specs enough to know that 90% of specs are unqualified and mean little.

The Alpine amplifier is comparable with a 14.4V supply but will drop 25 to 30% with a 12.5V supply. With most amplifiers, the power drops by a healthy percentage at 100 Hz as compared to 1 kHz (where the rating is taken). The power drops even farther at 40 Hz as compared to 100 Hz. You need the power most at the bottom end of the spectrum and you certainly won't get the rated power with the available voltage in a boat....unless you have the regulated JL Audio HD.

One channel will put out much less power when all channels are driven versus in isolation. But they don't rate, test or review the amplifiers with ALL channels driven.

Power specs are taken with a passive load resistor. That doesn't tell how an amplifier interacts with a speaker that has a back EMF (reflected force back at the amplifier terminals). Every dynamic speaker is also a poor microphone and either sends power back to the amplifier or modulates the power.

Many amplifiers don't even meet spec because there is no governing body to enforce compliance. CEA is a standard but enforces nothing. Others just barely meet spec.

So if you are going to live and die by specs you should know more about them.

The JL Audio HD will deliver the rated power or more at any supply voltage and is rated conservatively enough and is robust enough that it will deliver that power over a broad bandwidth.

The JL Audio XD series is typically under-rated by 35% and will still deliver its 14.4V power with a 12.5V supply. Just look in on the PasMag review of the JL XD500/3. But they have to be rated this conservatively because they give you a target output voltage to set the input gain. And they know people will probably be tuning their systems at 12.5V while at rest. Try taking another amplifier brand and setting the output voltage according to the power rating while at rest. Yes, it will hard clip.

Quote, "And maybe the 1000/5 is what is replacing the 900/5?? more is always better when dealing with stereo and engines!!"

This isn't a replacement. These are two different series with two different objectives in mind. The XD1000/5 will do what any other 5-channel amplifier will do in power and do it cleaner. JL Audio is the only domestic brand that actual has electronic engineers on staff.

Most everything else is a China or N. Korea or Asian import and the domestic companies buy existing platforms. Wetsounds differs using a domestic design house (Robert Zeff with Nikola Engineering....Robert was the original owner/designer of Zapco). Audison is an exception with great inside engineering. Alpine actually has great engineering in Japan (also used to be in high end home HiFi - Luxman), although their decision to go mass market has left them in a really bad position now and they presently need a direction. Their products have become more price point based to compete on the shelves of Best Buy (that means sold by Best Buy clerks and purchased by the Best Buy customer). But it's still under the original Alpine.

And I am one who does not understand 90 % of the terminology. I do have a good ear, being a part time musician, so I can tell good, better and such.

I have not looked at the 1000/5, just assumed it was the replacement for the 900/5. Does jl have a replacement for the 900/5? Cause although pricey, I know quite a few who have that same amp in their car, boat, etc. That is how I ran across it. Plus I had a JL 600/4 in an older boat.

Like you said in a different post…Phase Linear made great stuff, then Pioneer bought them and they made crap, then Jensen bought them and even crappier stuff. But still living off the reputation when Phase Linear had Bob Carver. Seems to happen a lot in the auto electronics industry.

Thanks for being patient and teaching us about amp technology.

[David]

And I am one who does not understand 90 % of the terminology. I do have a good ear, being a part time musician, so I can tell good, better and such.

I have not looked at the 1000/5, just assumed it was the replacement for the 900/5. Does jl have a replacement for the 900/5? Cause although pricey, I know quite a few who have that same amp in their car, boat, etc. That is how I ran across it. Plus I had a JL 600/4 in an older boat.

Like you said in a different post…Phase Linear made great stuff, then Pioneer bought them and they made crap, then Jensen bought them and even crappier stuff. But still living off the reputation when Phase Linear had Bob Carver. Seems to happen a lot in the auto electronics industry.

Thanks for being patient and teaching us about amp technology.

The XD1000/5 (which is unregulated and less expensive) is not a replacement for the HD900/5 (strictly regulated and more expensive). Any unregulated amplifier will lose 25 to 30% of its 14.4V power with a 12.5V supply. You will not get 14.4V in a boat and you certainly will not have that kind of voltage available to the amplifier terminals with a larger high-current audio system pulling the voltage down. Again, the HD series will not lose power or sound quality as the voltage sags whether momentarily or progressively. Plus, it will deliver full rated power at the lowest frequencies, and not just 1000 Hz. And for the most part that is what drives the higher price of the HD, although there are many other superior technologies in the HD amplifiers. So the XD is high value. The HD is simply the very best.

If you know old Phase Linear, then you might be familiar with another old school brand, the McIntosh multi-tap autoformers that optimumly couple the output section to a variety of impedance loads. As a result you can rail on a 150 pound power amplifier for hours that essentially stays nearly as cool as your body temperature. Guess what. It performs to perfection at any load and it lasts for decades. Just another example of how a designer creates a product with superior performance by keeping the amplifier optimized and always within spec. And that type of product is more expensive. Specs just don't tell the entire story, especially when there are soooo many loopholes in the specs.

[happypappy]

The XD1000/5 (which is unregulated and less expensive) is not a replacement for the HD900/5 (strictly regulated and more expensive). Any unregulated amplifier will lose 25 to 30% of its 14.4V power with a 12.5V supply. You will not get 14.4V in a boat and you certainly will not have that kind of voltage available to the amplifier terminals with a larger high-current audio system pulling the voltage down. Again, the HD series will not lose power or sound quality as the voltage sags whether momentarily or progressively. Plus, it will deliver full rated power at the lowest frequencies, and not just 1000 Hz. And for the most part that is what drives the higher price of the HD, although there are many other superior technologies in the HD amplifiers. So the XD is high value. The HD is simply the very best.

If you know old Phase Linear, then you might be familiar with another old school brand, the McIntosh multi-tap autoformers that optimumly couple the output section to a variety of impedance loads. As a result you can rail on a 150 pound power amplifier for hours that essentially stays nearly as cool as your body temperature. Guess what. It performs to perfection at any load and it lasts for decades. Just another example of how a designer creates a product with superior performance by keeping the amplifier optimized and always within spec. And that type of product is more expensive. Specs just don't tell the entire story, especially when there are soooo many loopholes in the specs.

YES SIREE!! Love the Mac…thanks for explaining the difference in the jl amps….I just jumped to the conclusion that the 1000/5 was replacing the 900/5. The jl website does not explain that very well….or I just missed it. ANd there is no mention of discontinuing the 900/5, so maybe they are not??

Interesting how quality products, like the Phase and Mac, the older stuff is worth more now than when new. I have seen Phase Linear 500 and 700 series II amps going for twice what they sold for brand new, same with the Mac and even 3-4 times.