Is a Surfable Wake Possible from a Response?

[302Zapper]

We've got an 08 Response LXi with an Illusion X tower and power wedge. Bought the boat with the intension of me skiing the course and Barefooting and the kid and friends Wakeboarding.

We borrowed a surfboard one day and tried it, absolutely loved it. Though none of us could drop the rope and keep it going for more than a few seconds we still had a big smile on our face.

Very little weight in the boat, no ballasts, linebackers, lead or full coolers.

So the question is;

Has anyone had or seen a Response give off a big enough wake for skinny little white guys to surf?

[ahopkins22LSV]

Yes it is. We surf a friends '11 LXi with the power wedge and a 750 in the back right corner. Can really only surf goofy side. We need more bow weight.

My dad has a 98 Moomba Outback and we surf that all the time. We put 800 in the back where the rear seat normally is, a 250 on the right side of the engine and 250 in the bow. Its not the longest or the steepest wave out there by any means but I can surf without the rope all day. Have to very careful driving the boat though, basically only ever turn with the weight on the inside of the turn.

[canski27]

We surf our 11 RLXI with no ballast. It isn't great but it is not why we bought it and you can't beat the ski wake. Put the big dudes in the back corner and I can go rope less as long as you turn into the wave slightly.

[Andrew63]

Going through the same though process at the moment with my 2011 RXLI

Experimented with a NNS style ply bracket clamped to the swim platform, not adjustable & it made a noticeable difference to the wave.

No ballast apart from my 200 lb in the opposite corner to the NNS plate.

Not having the hull depth of a wake hull & reading some of the comments of the surf gate adding spray is steering me towards the NSS.

Working up to a mod similar to the one at the link

http://www.wakeworld.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800079

Just need a bit more trial & error before making such a commitment to drill holes in the transom.

We are hitting the main ski season here in Australia so plenty of time to experiment.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Andrew63

[Levi900RR]

I know its way different but I know a bunch of people on here including myself used to surf older closed bow Skiers. Put enough weight in the rear corner and you'll be fine.

[Michigan boarder]

We surf our Echelon Lx ropeless endlessly. 750# bag in rear corner, 400# bag in ski locker, wedge down. Move the crew around as needed. We use a big ol' Hyperlite Broadcast board.

As you weight your boat, you want to add weight to the back until the surf side corner of the swim deck is about an inch under water. The opposite side will probably be about an in out of the water. You will need weight in the bow to lengthen the wave and provide "push" to the board. Without that bow weight you'll have a big huge wake, but it will not push the board, not surfable ropeless.

[JB-FOOT]

We've got an 08 Response LXi with an Illusion X tower and power wedge. Bought the boat with the intension of me skiing the course and Barefooting and the kid and friends Wakeboarding.

We borrowed a surfboard one day and tried it, absolutely loved it. Though none of us could drop the rope and keep it going for more than a few seconds we still had a big smile on our face.

Very little weight in the boat, no ballasts, linebackers, lead or full coolers.

So the question is;

Has anyone had or seen a Response give off a big enough wake for skinny little white guys to surf?

Well. even if you can not ropeless surf your response.....there are other fun and challenging things to do behind direct drives...

For example, sitting in a surf board with your feet in front of you in the board and then standing straight up on it....we go out long line quite a bit on surf board and just rip around to mix things up a bit and keep us all fresh and free from boredom, LOL

Here is a video of a friend long line on a wakesurf board at about 15-17 mph behind my 94 Echelon...notice how he stands up on the board, that is not the easiest thing to do this way....it takes pretty good balance and perfect timing...LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1_HvVWQe4k

I guarantee that You have not lived until your are on a wakesurf board 85 feet behind the boat and going 40mph.....it is a rush to say the least....the board has soooooooo much drag and runs dead straight that the rope wants to pull you off of the board....

Who needs a tube to do stupid things to yourself and your buddies?!? Not us of course......LOL

[NorrisRyan]

Had the same boat and year. 750 centered in rear. 400's on the side of engine and bow for the side we wanted to surf.

[petrie141]

Fat Sacs and a longboard. Don't expect to be riding on the tour with the type of wave it'll produce, but with the right set up you can have a great time!

[Dare2goBare]

Well. even if you can not ropeless surf your response.....there are other fun and challenging things to do behind direct drives...

For example, sitting in a surf board with your feet in front of you in the board and then standing straight up on it....we go out long line quite a bit on surf board and just rip around to mix things up a bit and keep us all fresh and free from boredom, LOL

Here is a video of a friend long line on a wakesurf board at about 15-17 mph behind my 94 Echelon...notice how he stands up on the board, that is not the easiest thing to do this way....it takes pretty good balance and perfect timing...LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1_HvVWQe4k

I guarantee that You have not lived until your are on a wakesurf board 85 feet behind the boat and going 40mph.....it is a rush to say the least....the board has soooooooo much drag and runs dead straight that the rope wants to pull you off of the board....

Who needs a tube to do stupid things to yourself and your buddies?!? Not us of course......LOL

JB

I love it when he goes upside down!! How did he do that...?????????????????

[tccombs]

Yes you can surf behind it ...

I have a 06 response lxi with Power wedge.. set speed between 9-11 MPH put the wedge at the 1/2 mark on the guage. It is not the biggest wake, but i have had a few folks able to drop the rope.

If your going to do it... just make sure you dont ruin the water for others... make sure the water is blown out... and dont do it with any skiiers around..

[DenverBu]

You have the SV23 diamond hull, which is the same hull that Sunsetters and even some Wakesetters had 10 years ago. In other words, it is a bigger deeper hull than older Responses and all Echelons, which are surfable.

[302Zapper]

Thanks for all the info, sounds like I'm buying some Fatsacs.

So the next question is and I'm sure the answer is on this site if I looked but ill ask anyways;

How do I fill and empty the Fatsacs efficiently?

Thanks again for helping spend my hard earned money.

[Michigan boarder]

Here's my take on the sacks and weight distribution. I sold the 750 bag the summer before last with the intent to buy 5 of the 155lb "brick" fat sacs. I still have the 400lb sack in the ski locker.

1. I can fill the brick sacs one at a time standing in the water and letting water flow in.

2. After they are filled, I can carry them into the boat and position them exactly where they need to be

3. The 750 sack is big. It pushed on my engine cover and broke the hydraulic spring bracket from the floor.

4. After surfing, the brick sacks can be positioned evenly around the boat for a good wakeboarding session, instead of listing

5. After wakeboarding, the brick sacks can be lifted out of the boat and put on shore. I can leave them filled all day/weekend, putting them in or out of the boat as our activity dictates. Like at the end of the day put them on shore, so that we are ready for a 7am barefoot/slalom run. Then put them back in the boat.

6. The brick sacks can be emptied/filled while the boat is out and doing other stuff, then simply drop them in when changing out the next rider. So we can go from wakeboarding to surfing pretty quickly.

Bear in mind I still need to manage the ski locker sack. I might swap that out for brick sacks as well, if it seemed two would fit up front well.

The above was my plan last summer but I had engine trouble and didn't do much boating. But this year I hope to go with the brick sacs.

[tccombs]

Hey Zapper,

I just read your last post about buying fat sacs. And wanted to be sure to warn you before you possibly make a bad mistake.

if i am correct our boats are nearly identical... I have an 06 response LXI with Power wedge.

If i am right, then your blower vents are a curved grill that go from the sides and wrap around the stern.

On my boat and probably yours too while in surf mode at 9-11 MPH surf speed and with the wedge at the 1/2 mark and with a few people sitting in the rear. Then the water is right to the very edge of that vent.. So if you add any more weight, the vent will submerge bringing in a ton of water into your blower motor and into the bilge area. So it will gain more and more weight as you surf...

And because of where our bilge pump is located it will not even begin to pump out until we stop. which could send a huge wave right over the rear seat and into the boat...

Also keep in mind the huge amount of stress placed on your transmission while surfing. the more weight you add the more stress it is under. our boats were designed to be planing while skiing not under the huge loads of surfing... So if you overload the boat too much you could damage the tranny over time.

So while we can surf behind our boats they were really never designed for it so be careful not to overdo it our boats can only take so much...

[BlastRlxi]

Hey Zapper,

I just read your last post about buying fat sacs. And wanted to be sure to warn you before you possibly make a bad mistake.

if i am correct our boats are nearly identical... I have an 06 response LXI with Power wedge.

If i am right, then your blower vents are a curved grill that go from the sides and wrap around the stern.

On my boat and probably yours too while in surf mode at 9-11 MPH surf speed and with the wedge at the 1/2 mark and with a few people sitting in the rear. Then the water is right to the very edge of that vent.. So if you add any more weight, the vent will submerge bringing in a ton of water into your blower motor and into the bilge area. So it will gain more and more weight as you surf...

And because of where our bilge pump is located it will not even begin to pump out until we stop. which could send a huge wave right over the rear seat and into the boat...

Also keep in mind the huge amount of stress placed on your transmission while surfing. the more weight you add the more stress it is under. our boats were designed to be planing while skiing not under the huge loads of surfing... So if you overload the boat too much you could damage the tranny over time.

So while we can surf behind our boats they were really never designed for it so be careful not to overdo it our boats can only take so much...

Is there a difference in the transmissions in the Responses and the big v-drives? Thought they were all the same assuming similar engine packages.

[302Zapper]

Well. even if you can not ropeless surf your response.....there are other fun and challenging things to do behind direct drives...

For example, sitting in a surf board with your feet in front of you in the board and then standing straight up on it....we go out long line quite a bit on surf board and just rip around to mix things up a bit and keep us all fresh and free from boredom, LOL

Here is a video of a friend long line on a wakesurf board at about 15-17 mph behind my 94 Echelon...notice how he stands up on the board, that is not the easiest thing to do this way....it takes pretty good balance and perfect timing...LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1_HvVWQe4k

I guarantee that You have not lived until your are on a wakesurf board 85 feet behind the boat and going 40mph.....it is a rush to say the least....the board has soooooooo much drag and runs dead straight that the rope wants to pull you off of the board....

Who needs a tube to do stupid things to yourself and your buddies?!? Not us of course......LOL

Hey JB

This reminds me of when I learnt to barefoot. It would have been around 1980, our boat was an 19' jet boat with about 300 hoarses, big power for the day. We tied two 75' ropes together, sat on a knee board and got the boat going close to 40 mph. Stick your feet in the water and hopefully you would pop up.

We used two ropes to get out of the wash of the jet and the knee board idea was something one of the guys in our group had heard about so we figured what the heck, give it a try. The trick was sitting on a knee board, ounce up you had to shimmy your butt forward then lay back on the board and the boat gives er. It helped that I was only 130 lbs and didn't know what it feels like going face first into water at 40 mph.

I was the first on our lake to ever barefoot and it was a lot of fun watching all the older, bigger less athletic guys try and try and try and try.

[302Zapper]

So it looks like there are some other considerations before ordering a pump and Fatsacs.

Can the transmission take the extra weight?

Will the Fatsacs fit the space available or will it be putting pressure on engine cover?

When we head to the lake it's usually just 2 or 3 of us. We don't have a lot of weight in the boat and some sort of ballast will be required. I'll look into Michigan Boarder's idea about bricks.

tccombs I appreciate all the thoughts and concerns, your making me think about this more than I originally would have.

[Steve B.]

A friends of mine brought some other Malibu surfer friends out this summer. They couldn't surf (ropeless) behind my DD We tried between 9 and thirteen ish mph.

I have no ballast and only a couple lightweight girlfriends for weight.

It was probably my lack of knowledge more than anything,

Steve B.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Steve B.

[MountainMan]

Hey JB

This reminds me of when I learnt to barefoot. It would have been around 1980, our boat was an 19' jet boat with about 300 hoarses, big power for the day. We tied two 75' ropes together, sat on a knee board and got the boat going close to 40 mph. Stick your feet in the water and hopefully you would pop up.

We used two ropes to get out of the wash of the jet and the knee board idea was something one of the guys in our group had heard about so we figured what the heck, give it a try. The trick was sitting on a knee board, ounce up you had to shimmy your butt forward then lay back on the board and the boat gives er. It helped that I was only 130 lbs and didn't know what it feels like going face first into water at 40 mph.

I was the first on our lake to ever barefoot and it was a lot of fun watching all the older, bigger less athletic guys try and try and try and try.

That's how I learned to barefoot and how I barefoot today. Still haven't got a deep water start. Hopefully next summer.

[tccombs]

Yes the transmissions are differant with direct drives and V Drives... Most Direct Drives like in the response have a 1:1 or a very small reduction gear. But wakeboard boats usually have larger reduction gears because of the heavier weights they carry

[flapjack]

Yes the transmissions are differant with direct drives and V Drives... Most Direct Drives like in the response have a 1:1 or a very small reduction gear. But wakeboard boats usually have larger reduction gears because of the heavier weights they carry

Do you have any reference for this information? I don't know of any Malibu inboard ever made that wasn't 1:1.

Now I'll really show my ignorance. I thought the v-drives just added the "v-drive" and they used the same transmission.

[tccombs]

Do you have any reference for this information? I don't know of any Malibu inboard ever made that wasn't 1:1.

Now I'll really show my ignorance. I thought the v-drives just added the "v-drive" and they used the same transmission.

You may be right about Malibu's only using a 1:1 I'm honestly not sure.

But I think you misunderstood my original statement ..

I said "all direct drives LIKE the response have a 1:1 or a small reduction gear" so that would include boats like a

Mastercraft who made boats with the powerslot tranny which had a reduction gears.

[JB-FOOT]

You may be right about Malibu's only using a 1:1 I'm honestly not sure.

But I think you misunderstood my original statement ..

I said "all direct drives LIKE the response have a 1:1 or a small reduction gear" so that would include boats like a

Mastercraft who made boats with the powerslot tranny which had a reduction gears.

Mastercraft older DD was 1:1 or the Power Slot which was 1.5:1...I do not know about the present as I got out of being really concerned about them in 2006

Nautique DD was 1.23:1 with a bobtail down angle PCM transmission from 1989 ongoing......(except for 1993 model year, which had a cheaper version available 1:1 Velvet Drive)

[jakeearle]

I have an 08 response with a manual wedge and we wake surfed fine without a rope over summer with a 5ft phase 5 wake surfer. We put two around 500 pound sacks either side of the engine cover and have 8 people in the boat, worked for both goofy and regular. Water only got in the vents when turning so we would just move everyone to the centre of the boat when turning and no water would go in the vents.