*The DIY Surf Gate Thread*

[Chia]

maybe send the pics to martinarcher and he would post them up??

[High Altitude]

I am happy to send them to anybody to post. I didn't realize that non-members couldn't see the pics on PlanetNautique. I have a photobucket account but I'm not really sure how to use it. I looked at the instructions on this site about how to link pictures, but they were not intuitively obvious for me.

[martinarcher]

Try this....

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/page/help/post_attach.html

[nevertwobig]

High altitude, this plate that you made, does it go opposite of the surf side like the surf gate?

[TrickyNicky]

Finally got to test it this weekend! To summarize, it works!!

Surfgate setup: Full MLS (inc bow) plus approx 400 lbs on surf side, 200 lbs on non surf side.

Wave was similar in height to the old wave. One thing I noticed, was that the top 1/4 of the wave was washy. This was not your typical folding wash though. I've summed it up to the wash coming off the closed gate. If you look in the first pic, directly left of his front knee you can see a swirl of wash. Second pic the wash line from his rear knee. From there up the wave is washy. When surfing, you can visually follow that line of wash directly down to the closed gate. The current closed gate is a 2x10 which the water contacts abruptly forming some spray. It also does not allow the water to flow off the side of the hull and under the platform, making a deep trough. The open gate also sits a good 4" under water allowing some to come over. I plan on making a slightly taller gate and trimming off the lower section at the rear to allow more water to pass under it when closed.

I'm also still skeptical that the FAE is not creating some wash as well.

The last pic is the old listed surf wave. Yes it is nicer! However keep in mind the last pic is the best of the best over 3 years, the setup is 750 surf side, 370 under the seat and another 1200 lbs people ballast distributed on surf side. The other thing to note, is that this weekend was very choppy with high winds so the SG wave was at a disadvantage to start. Finally, keep in mind the photo angles are completely different and in favour of the list.

To sum it up: I am happy with the surfgate wave. I will certainly be spending some time tweaking with it but I think I can get it within the same quality as the listed wake seen below. I also cannot believe how nice it is to not have to list the boat, people can sit wherever they like and driving is as easy as weighted for wakeboarding.

Edited June 3, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[WakeGirl]

That's pretty cool Nicky. Have you considered a design that would allow you to remove the closed gate? My thought is that it would allow clean water on that surf side & wouldn't interfere with the wave.

Nice job, I'm impressed with what you guys are coming up with.

[High Altitude]

Tricky,

Nice job! Wave looks legit and with a bit of tweaking will be awesome. Are you think thinking of going with a taller gate? How is the wave on the goofy side? Thanks for sharing. -Marc

[TrickyNicky]

That's pretty cool Nicky. Have you considered a design that would allow you to remove the closed gate? My thought is that it would allow clean water on that surf side & wouldn't interfere with the wave.

Nice job, I'm impressed with what you guys are coming up with.

Considered...and passed up. Having a removable gate is what I would suggest others try first as it really shouldn't be difficult and I think you'd be happy with the results. Seeing as I'm the type of guy to jump into the deep end and not tip-toe, I already have the actuators mounted to the back so my system is staying on full time.

[TrickyNicky]

Tricky,

Nice job! Wave looks legit and with a bit of tweaking will be awesome. Are you think thinking of going with a taller gate? How is the wave on the goofy side? Thanks for sharing. -Marc

I didn't mention this in my OP, but with the same weighting the wave is as good or better on the goofy side. Yes, with more weight on the regular side the wave is still better on the goofy side (prop wash etc I guess?). This allows no ballast being changed between riders. We also had more weight in the back (I was using 2 750's) but with only 3 people in the boat the little VTX was not happy with so much weight in the rear. So we dropped some weight from the bags. I'm interested in seeing how it acts with the 1939 on its way and with some more people to throw in the front. Our cottage weekends are pretty busy so I'm anticipating running stock ballast and 8-10 people in the boat and not using the bags at all. This was my main goal as the rest of the family loves surfing as well but has been less inclined to deal with the bags when I'm not around.

Yes I am planning on going to a 14" gate closest to the transom and reducing the height to maybe 10" furthest rear. This will have the gate sitting 3-3.5" above the platform, but only 5-6" in the water at it's furthest point.

[High Altitude]

Finally pulled my head out and figured out how to use photobucket. Here is a repost of what I wrote on PN. I'll update both sites with more photos of the actual attachment to the boat ASAP....

Okay, last year I tried building a surfgate system for my Ski Nautique. It was fun building and testing it, but in the end, it didn’t work. This year I am building an NSS style system and thought I would share my results. Things are pretty basic right now, but I believe in incremental testing and development due to the costs and time required.

My testing setup is made from ½ plywood attached to 2x4’s. The 2x4’s then attach to the swim platform. It’s the easiest thing to use and I can cut various shapes in about five minutes. I started off with just a demo day with no surfing involved. I wanted to test the proof of concept as well as downselect a few options for behind the boat testing. I tried various horizontal displacements as well as vertical displacements and came away thinking an approximate 2" horizontal and 1" vertical displacement were the optimal setup. I then began to vary the weight. It appears that weight is going to play a pretty big factor in this as well. The optimal setup would be to have even weighting and allow the “plate” (or wooden cutout in this case) to enhance the surf wave on either side. This did not happen. It’s a real bummer because that is one of the huge advantages of the NSS or SurfGate (on the Malibus). The 1999 Ski Nautique hull appears to be one that just needs to be leaned over in order to get a good wave. I was able to get some nice waves but like most people I wanted more. I went back to my jigsaw and cut another NSS “plate” which had even more surface area exposed to the water. While the actual displacement was the same, more surface area was exposed because it was longer (in the horizontal plane) as well as higher (in the vertical). It seemed like a good idea at the time, but that didn’t work as planned. Too much displacement actually created a worse wave. In the end, I went back to a fairly modest displacement option. This is the same problem that I had with the Surfgate design. It actually delayed the convergence TOO much.

Setup: 2.25" horizontal displacement; 1" vertical displacement

Weight: Driver 105, front sac 260, surf side 400, rear 900

Overall, I am pleased so far. I can remove the NSS system in less than it takes to fill/empty a 350lb sac. The delayed convergence seems to help shape the wave quite nicely. When I actually surfed it, the sweet spot was further back which was nice. Push was good but not great. There was a little crossover spray from the NSS side that I didn’t like but that could be eliminated. Next week I will test some different configuration plus the “regular” side. That should be a challenge as the prop rotation makes a HUGE difference with this boat. In the future I hope to make a slightly larger plate but use less displacement. (3/4 vertical, 1 ¾ horizontal) I will be interested to see the results.

Please let me know what you think. BTW…I don’t care if you think I am ruining a perfectly good ski boat. I personally love skiing the course and do so every week (sometimes every day). I also like to drink beer and hang out with my family and friends….and surfing is perfect for that.

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[martinarcher]

Considered...and passed up. Having a removable gate is what I would suggest others try first as it really shouldn't be difficult and I think you'd be happy with the results. Seeing as I'm the type of guy to jump into the deep end and not tip-toe, I already have the actuators mounted to the back so my system is staying on full time.

Looks good man. I messed a little this week with a partially extended gate on the surf side (some peeps were asking of a gate that was not fully our of the water stream on the surf side would affect the wake). The answer is yes. If that gate was in the water stream at all on the surf side it would immediately begin impacting the surf wave in a bad way. The further into the stream the gate was, the worse it was. Once the gate was fully tucked back in, the wave cleaned up and was much better. Just a little info that might be helpful to you guys.

[High Altitude]

Some more pics of how my system is currently hooked up to my boat. I just slide the 1/2 piece in between the hull and the swim platform. I then use three lag bolts (1 depicted) to connect downwards into the 2x4's. Really easy to attach. Obviously, Lencos would make this a much sweeter system. (plus an MA speed controller!)

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[High Altitude]

I was just reading the poorman's gate thread again and compared the surf pictures between my system and MA's old 'Bu. I think my wave is too far "forward". I know that's not a great description... but I think it extends too far to the side and that is the reason it doesn't have optimal push. I am rething my horizontal displacement and might try something only half the size. I might be getting too much delay and the wave is getting too much angle.

I hope I don't need to lean the boat over even more. Thoughts? -Marc

Edited June 4, 2013 by High Altitude

[martinarcher]

Marc,

Good question. By too far forward do you mean a short wave (ie lacking length)? That is the one thing the surf gate helped with my boat was adding length to the wave. What speed are you running? Speed also has a huge impact of wave length.

[mrothwell]

Has anyone done any calculations about how much force is pushing against a surfgate?? I see that some have used only the swim platform as an attachment point, others have screwed in hinges, etc... is it putting too much force on the swim platform brackets and mounting points?? I know that the swim platform can handle a lot of weight and vertical load, I'm wondering about the side load.

Thanks

[High Altitude]

Short answer is: yes some people have calculated it and it's not a whole lot. I know it's discussed in one of the threads but I can't remember where. The swim platform on my boat is thru-bolted so I am not worried in the least.

Remember, both Nautique and Malibu are using the same designs with basically no hull mods what-so-ever. Should be a problem for us DIY'ers either.

[High Altitude]

Meant to say "...not be a problem".

Couldn't edit it for some reason.

[martinarcher]

I messed with a kneeboard up against my platform while kneeling on it. It is enough to make it difficult to leverage into the water stream, but certainly not enough that I thought some decent hardware and engineering couldn't overcome. The platform brackets are plenty strong IMO.

[Nicsobu]

Finally tested my gate and it definitely improves the wake. It was nice to keep even weight in rear and be able to go rope less first try out. Now I will build other side for regular footers. Thanks to all the crew members who have been working on these gates for some time now . I would not have tried this without all the posts and detailed info from them.

[High Altitude]

Marc,

Good question. By too far forward do you mean a short wave (ie lacking length)? That is the one thing the surf gate helped with my boat was adding length to the wave. What speed are you running? Speed also has a huge impact of wave length.

Lacking length isn't really what I meant as I could surf much further back with this wave. The problem is the wave comes out at too much of an angle from the boat instead of projecting out slowly over a greater distance. Looking at the pictures of your wave it projects down the line of the boat for about 6 feet then seems to "openn up" at maybe a 20-30 degree angle. Mine seems to have about 4-5 feet down the line then opens up at a 35-45 degree angle. Does that make sense?

As for speed....I surf at 8.5 MPH on the PP (stargazer). I know that is slow compared to everything else out there but that was the optimal speed before I started the mods as well. I actually went through a whole range of speeds but the wave was so much smaller at higher speeds. I probably need to surf a few other speeds just to check that the size is correlated to the "surfability". I tried adjusting the speed quite a bit before modifying the boat and always came back to 8.5 MPH.

[High Altitude]

Finally tested my gate and it definitely improves the wake. It was nice to keep even weight in rear and be able to go rope less first try out. Now I will build other side for regular footers. Thanks to all the crew members who have been working on these gates for some time now . I would not have tried this without all the posts and detailed info from them.

Nice job! Very clean install. Are you using Lenco's to operate it?

[mica]

Hello,

I just completed my topic with some fresh news. I have actually some working surfgate on my 2011 VLX.

http://www.themalibucrew.com/forums/index.php?/topic/41952-2011-wakesetter-vlx-surfgate/?p=608221

Best regards from Switzerland.

[Nicsobu]

For now it's manual via 1-1/8 telescoping tube with push pins . Migged ends solid and threaded Heim joints on.Very easy access from top of swim deck,takes a few seconds to deploy or retract. Supports will accept Lenco 102s in the future.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Nicsobu

[rugger]

Nicosbu,

Nice job. Your implentation is nearly identical to mine, except I had bimini style ends on the push poles. But same thumb button to retract and deploy. Worked great. I did modify mine a bit this year and added Lencos, but it's not too much different otherwise.

So glad another 01-03 23 hull has surf gate... what a PIA that step is in the hull eh? Will have to compare ballast notes sometime too.

Nice!

[Nicsobu]

Mica, your gates came out nice. I like the Plexi.