*The DIY Surf Gate Thread*

[rushrush1]

Just trying to wrap my small brain around this. I notice some of the homemade gates don't retract as far as the factory ones due to the swim platform. Wouldn't this have a negative impact on the wave since it would not let the water come around as soon as it got past the transom , instead having to travel the length of the not fully retracted gate. In other words, does a single gate on the push side make a better wave then two gates with the non push side only retracted to the swim platform. Hope this makes since, I figured someone would have the answer since I have seen a few homemade jobs just on the push side.

[martinarcher]

You are right, if a retracted gate affects the water flow by diverting it away from the hull, then yes, it will hurt the potential of the deployed gate which is attempting to do the same.

[rushrush1]

So I guess I would direct my question towards intense since I have a swim platform like his and my setup would be very similar. Do you think it would be worth the effort of remodeling the swim platform to let the gate retract farther as the factory unit does? Or are you satisfied with your setup?

[TrickyNicky]

Okay I'm going to be purchasing the material for the final gates and was just wondering what you guys think. My original plan was to go with Aluminum (probably stick with 6061) in a thickness either 1/4-1/2" thick. This would be anodized. The other option of course is one of the many plastics previously used. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

I'll probably be purchasing from mcmaster-carr.

[Tao of Wake]

FWIW, I am planning on using black HDPE: http://www.interstateplastics.com/Black-Hdpe-Sheet-HDPBE.php

I plan on using 3/8" or 1/2" and smoothing the edges to minimize the risk of anyone getting hurt while getting up on the swim platform.

[rugger]

High altitude -- did you notice a lean with your boat using the mock NSS? That bottom tab would create lift on the side, and the lateral tab would create divergence, right?

I know a slight list improves the SG waves. But I'm not sure how much lift you'd get with the wedge pulling down so hard anway.

Post some pics! And thanks for sharing.

[High Altitude]

^Rugger,

^{I apologize for being so lame and not posting pics. A few years ago I made the decision to move out to the country and live on a shared lake. While there are only two other families that use the water, there aren't a whole lot of people to help when things go wrong. Our pump (the lake is man-made and fed by an aquifer) failed about a month ago and I have put about 20-30 hours getting it operational again. Basically, all the time I thought I was going to have to devote to building and testing my NSS has been lost. Not complaining, I justed wanted you guys to know I'm still with the program and I'm not blowing off the requests.}

^{As for the lean, I only had time to make one test and I went in with the assumption that I was going to lean the boat to begin with. I put a 350 on the surfside so I can be sure how much of it was the NSS and how much was the sac, I have a whole testing regimen written out and it include various NSS displacements (vertical and horizontal) plus weighting changes. My preference would of course be to have even weight and let the NSS do the work. I'm not sure that will be possible for such a small boat as mine. (20 foot inboard) I think I have about three weeks before the lake is full enough to get my boat on the lift. Once that happens, I should be able to finish my testing in one weekend. -Marc}

Edited May 15, 2013 by High Altitude

[TrickyNicky]

Alright guys time for an update.

So two weeks ago we had the surfgate installed. Everything is permanent except the gates themselves are a 2x10 cut to approximately 23" long. As a pre-warning to other potential DIY'ers, I didn't over-drill (not even sure what that is), tape and didn't drill in reverse. I had 1 tiny gel chip in each mount that occurred when we tightened the mounts on (they are small enough that they are hidden by the mounts). Other than that we had no problems. Time will tell on the rest. All other components are the same as MA's. (Less his speed control, mine is just 2 rocker switches)

We finally got to test it this weekend and to be honest I'm unsure of how I feel. However there is some reasoning. First off the divergence is working and there is a definite formation of a surf wave on either side when weighted evenly. It's quite cool. There is also no effect on the wakeboard, or ski wake to any effect. Steering in reverse is better than previous as I can even steer slightly left.

As to the quality of the wake, we didn't ride it, so that should say enough. The wave is easily twice as long as the old wave. It also seems to be offset out from the side of the boat more, instead of directly behind. The height of the wave was half that of a traditional wave. The biggest thing we noticed was that we struggled to get a clean lip until we were up to about 13mph (traditionally we surf at 10-11). The cause for this I believe is because the wedge was up. We just installed an FAE and we are still experiencing some rotation which has restricted us from using the wedge. By leaving the wedge up we have created a "box" underneath the platform which does not allow the water anywhere to escape without becoming turbulent. I am really hoping that dropping the wedge will allow the wake to become clean. After noticing this I weighted the boat in the traditional way and I struggled to create a clean wake. Once again I am attributing this to the water catching the wedge and becoming very turbulent. The only way to clean up the wave was to speed up to around 13 mph.

I am interested to know if anyone has experienced a similar result with surfgate (OEM or DIY) and the wedge up and/or FAE. I'm wondering if the 3 just don't want to cooperate together. Please chime in if you have a variation of this setup.

Another thing I noticed was that with just stock ballast the gates are allowing a good 6" of water to pass over top. So my next step is to try a taller gate. Can anyone share their results with how much water is flowing over the gate?

It was a stressful long weekend to say the least, hoping to regroup with some new parts this week and have better luck this weekend. All I can say is thank gosh I got to ski, I am oh so sore and it feels oh so good.

Feel free to ask questions and comments. My mind hasn't stopped on this for over a month so I just wanted to get some thoughts into writing.

Edited May 21, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[shawndoggy]

are you full manual for retract and deploy nicky? Just using carling rockers?

[Malibuzer]

Good information. I will be following your progress. Keep up the good work.

[TrickyNicky]

are you full manual for retract and deploy nicky? Just using carling rockers?

I'm using the lenco rockers. They do mount very nicely into the dash. Boathouse has pics. Momentary rockers for extending and retracting.

Edited May 21, 2013 by TrickyNicky

[shawndoggy]

Yeah those are carling switches with lenco branded switch actuators.

Are you going to add auto retract? Take a look at the PAC TR-7 Pro. Very inexpensive trigger module that offers some very interesting possibilities (though not as sophisticated as MA's solution).

Would be pretty easy to add auto retract on neutral for instance.

[martinarcher]

Awesome. Glad to hear yours is wet. A little info on the wedge, ours adds a substantial amount of height to the wave. I can surf without the wedge, but obviously prefer it down due to it's affects on the height and size of the wake. I do not have FAE, but I can't imagine it would do anything favorable to the wave.

Just an update on the gate control project....all parts are delivered, I'm now waiting on some bits to cut a prototype board out on my buddies CNC mill. I can't wait. The board layout is done minus adding holes for the enclosure standoffs. Hopefully that will be done this week.

I was improving the software on Sunday when we were out. I'm really happy with the way it is working now. I had an issue where the gates would work flawlessly when my wife or I would drive and where they would act up (deploy, then retract and never deploy again) when my buddy drove. It turned out he would accelerate faster than we would and exceed the surf zone for a split second. My logic had a bug when that condition would happen for a split second...it doesn't now.

On a side note, I was playing with the surf speed zone and removed the top limit while testing....and forgot to put it back in when we took off for a slalom pass and also forgot to disable the gates with the switches.....double whoops. My gates are tough, but I can now tell you all they can handle 30mph without any issue. The funny thing is the roostertail the gate was throwing was raining down on me (skiing 15' off). My buddy said they couldn't even see me from the boat. We had to look like one of those big jet boats ripping across the lake with the roostertail kicking up.

[High Altitude]

Crew,

I've finally got my stuff together. Planning on doing some major testing this weekend. Expect a full report next week with PICTURES. I am positive the NSS-style system is going to work and improve the wave but the big question in my mind is if I can get the system to work with even weighting. I really want to be able to evenly weight so switching sides is simple.

One question I have for this group is...do you think I can judge the waves by just looking at them versus actually surfing on them? I would like to run about ten different tests (combination of different vertical and horizontal displacement) and down-select to about two or three configurations and then surf those. Do you think that will work? I don't want to "throw away" good options but not having to surf all ten will speed up the process greatly. Just looking for opinions from an esteemed group of DIY'ers. Thanks in advance! -Marc

[TrickyNicky]

I would approach it the way you laid it out. Run all the tests and narrow it down and ride the "finalists." A surf wave is very dependent on feel. That being said there will be obvious visual differences that will help eliminate the less worthy.

This is one of the reasons I haven't ridden mine, It was not going to be a rewarding ride. I'm waiting for the wedge to be dropped so the wave can clean up.

[High Altitude]

I will be interested to see how the change in vertical displacement effects things. My hypothesis is that the greater the extension in the vertical plane, the greater the self-induced lean will be. Counteracting that though will be a tendancy for the nose to lower and create a less steep wave. (if that makes any sense?). There must be some breakeven point that makes for the best wave.

The other variable that is tricky to deal with is the weight of passengers. It will only be myself and one other for the tests. Should I simulate a few others by putting additional sacs in? I would like to think the wave only gets better with additional weight but I am not sure if that is true.

[martinarcher]

I would slam the boat with weight like you intend to for surfing and then play with different vertical offsets using the plates. Like others said, definitely surf the "finalists" as looks can be deceiving when judging a wave from the boat.

[Andrew63]

My hypothesis is that the greater the extension in the vertical plane, the greater the self-induced lean will be. Counteracting that though will be a tendancy for the nose to lower and create a less steep wave. (if that makes any sense?). There must be some breakeven point that makes for the best wave.

Just some thoughts.

Working on the same principle as a wing of a plane, turning down the flaps or aileron, all do the same, create lift in the wing section.

With the NSS extended down, I would expect this would create lift on the side this is deployed.

A bit like the difference in the wake at say 10mph to 20mph with less of the hull in the water.

Having the ability to deploy each side independently would provide the self induced lean mentioned above.

Creating the lift on one side, would delay the convergence of the wave on.. not sure if the same side or the opposite. I am leaning towards the same side but this is in contrast to other comments on the forum.

Either way, the principle is the same.

I expect there will be that magic point of too much Vertical extension to create too much lift may push the nose lower & therefore less of the transom in the water, with only one side deployed while this is possible, I would expect the effect to be minimal at surfing speeds

Weighting the hull will improve the wake, I expect you should have success with even weighting allowing easy switching between sides.

Not sure how easy it will be to pick the choice waves to trial.

Do have the option of a go pro style camera clamped to the boat, for the same perspective of each adjustment to review.

I would imagine it will be difficult to recall the wave appearance once you get 6 or 7 configurations trialed to recall the 1st or 2nd.

Either way, good luck & we all look forward to your results & thoughts

[shawndoggy]

interesting....

https://www.facebook.com/skywake.boats/posts/621545761188955

[Chia]

interesting....

https://www.facebook.com/skywake.boats/posts/621545761188955

Ugly, but nice

[shawndoggy]

I wish there was some description of what controller they are using.

[WakeGirl]

Why not contact them & ask? The worst they can tell you is to pound sand.

[High Altitude]

Hi crew,

I finally have some results of my testing. I posted the full results on PlanetNautique because I can't post photos here and I don't really want to use photobucket or a similiar site. Here is the link. http://www.planetnautique.com/vb3/showthread.php?26193-My-little-NSS-project-99-SN

I apologize about assbackwards way of posting, but hopefully it won't curtail this great discussion. I can't wait to try some more configurations. -Marc

[martinarcher]

I wish there was some description of what controller they are using.

Looks like based on the pic of the Lenco plate on the dash they are using the Lenco electronics.

[martinarcher]

Hi crew,

I finally have some results of my testing. I posted the full results on PlanetNautique because I can't post photos here and I don't really want to use photobucket or a similiar site. Here is the link. http://www.planetnautique.com/vb3/showthread.php?26193-My-little-NSS-project-99-SN

I apologize about assbackwards way of posting, but hopefully it won't curtail this great discussion. I can't wait to try some more configurations. -Marc

Cool. Any way you could post the pics up here or on a public site so we don't have to join to see them.

Thanks!