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Poorman's Gate


martinarcher

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Just adding to the discussion. I have a 99 Ski Nautique closed bow that I am working on to make it a true multi-sport beast. I really appreciate all the hard work that everybody has done on this site. I am a Planet Nautique member as well but I must admit 90% of the hard work is being done and shared on this site. Here is what I posted on the PN site as well:

So I built my first prototype this week and tried it out. I'm too pressed for time this week but I will post pictures next week for sure. With that said, I thought I would spend 5 minutes here to describe the results . Basically, my initial thought was to build the vertical "trim" tab (esentially what the Surfgate is) on the starboard side to build up a wake on the port side. I know my boat can make a decent starboard side wave but we have never had much luck on the port side even with signifigant weight. I used a 22"x8" board at about a 40 degree offset from the hull angle. I also used a 1000 pounds of ballast directly in the center rear of the boat. I figure if I can get this side to work, the other should be a piece of cake.

The bottom line is it was a partial victory. The wave was small but for the first time it was actually defined so that was a good thing. I was able to go ropeless (riding a Inland Surfer Blue Lake, 150lb rider) but it had very little push and would be unacceptable IMHO. It appears that my first iteration had a few things lacking. First of all, the 8" is a bit "low" in the water and I think too much water went over the top thus the delay in convergence was not fully realized. I plan on making a 10" x 22" tab for the next go around. Also, I am not sure about weighting. I would prefer to run all weight in the center and then pop out a trim tab when needed. This might not work. I am going to try a 60/40 (surf side - 60) weighting scheme next time and see if this helps. Lastly, I plan to use weighting in the front that I did not use at all. I have a 300 lb sack in the bow storage area that is fully plumbed to a Johnson pump so that will be easy to adjust. I think the correct weighting of the boat is absolutely essential to getting this thing right so I plan on running a whole bunch of iterations with some moveable weighting.

For a first attempt, I was reasonably satisfied. I think there is some serious potential here but it will take some engineering. Assuming I can get this to work I then will test a "tucked-in" version (the same as a Surfgate in the closed position) to see how it effects the ski wake at 26-34 MPH and the effects when going around the turn islands. If that works as well... the next step will be to plumb in the hydraulics and mount the switches. Unlike the Malibu Surfgate, these vertical "trim" tabs will not be controlled by speed. I will have two switches controlling either side. I will also install a master switch as a secondary safety so they never get switched open unintentionally. The goal is to have a true crossover where I can run a set in the course and then ten minutes later be ready to surf either goofy or regular without a massive reconfiguration of sacs and seating.

The next two weeks are going to be dicey because of some major work commitments. Thus, I might not get a chance to continue with my testing. It's a little sketchy after that because I live at 7000' and we are losing our season fast. Assuming we don't have a hard freeze, I will be out in my drysuit experimenting and then do the plumbing over the winter. I really hope to update the forum with some positive test results (and the pictures and videos) so others can continue to develop this concept. -Marc

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Here's the angle of mine. Totally different hull though. I posted in another thread for anyone else with the funky stepped transom. I'm sure there are better ideas, but so far it works for us. Too busy to keep messing with it this summer anyway.

photo%25203-1.JPG

In your pictures that you posted on the other thread it was hard to tell what you did with the "cut-out" on your hull. My boat has the same type of design so I am very interested. It looked like it was a grey piece of material that didn't move but I could be completely wrong. If you have a chance can you take a picture and explain just a little further what you did there? Also, are you using hydraulics or electrics to move your tabs? (I know it will have electrics to move the hydraulics but more interested in what type you used). Thanks a bunch! You have been very helpful for the rest of us and I know I appreciate it very much. -Marc

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Update......

Well I had exactly one hour to work on the "gate" this morning. I hat a 12" x 20" piece of wood that connected directly on to the existing piece of wood I was using. The extra height of the board was key! It really built up the wave a lot more. I also use some different weight combinations to get a feel for that as well. Unfortunately, I did not get to surf behind it because I was by myself so I can't speak to it's rideability but it looked much better. You could actually see the convergence and I took some pics. I will post all that on Sunday when I have a bit more time.

The wave was different in that it was higher but was also at more of an angle to the boat. Frankly, it looked more like a small ocean wave than a longer boat wave. The only way to know if that is good is to ride it which I will probably not get to do for a little while. The bottom line is it has convinced me to go further. I think I will begin to order some parts. By adding a hydraulic piston (and a control switch) I should be able to vary the angle and try to optimize the setup to some degree. It should make the "gate" swapouts quicker as well so I can try a different shapes.

The one variable I did not play with was speed. I need a full day to add that into the equation. Current speed is 8.5 on the GPS PP. That seems slow compared to most boats but it is also the optimal speed when using fat sacs on one side. (and that is a very rideable wave -- similiar to a 210 with stock ballast and 450 extra on the surf side)

One issue that I have with my 99 Ski Nautique is the cutout on the back. Water is clearly going thru the cutout and not hitting the gate. I'm not sure it's critical but it's something I need to think about (hence the question for rugger in my last post). The key is not to build something that effects the slalom wakes very much (or at all). That might be a tall order but I think it can be done. Thanks again for any advice/inputs, etc. -Marc
Edited by High Altitude
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  • 3 weeks later...

I've not seen on on an Axis. I know the platforms are huge and you would need to do some serious fiberglass work to the platform or swap it totally if you were to fit a "stowed" gate behind one. Of course a fixed gate would be a different story. I would like to see the wave behind one.

I've surfed behind a Axis with the traditional lean and it wasn't as good as many of the Bu's I've been behind.

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  • 2 months later...

Anyone with an axis tried this or thoughts of trying it on theirs? Seems like ive seen it on every boat but that one.

Im considering it....Ill let you know if I actually do anything more than dream.

Keep up the good work guys!!

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  • 4 months later...

I constructed a surf gate for my 97 sunsetter. Its 22 degrees off the hull and angled with the hull. I made the gate 10" x 19". The wake is insanely huge and long but not a lot of push. I've tried listing it, speed changes weight changes, wedge and no wedge. I think my non surf gate wake is way better. How do I get more push out of it?

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450 locker, 250 walkway, 450 between motor and rear seat, 1000 port side, 250 star side and two people equaling about 400 star side. So the boat is listed just slightly port. Wedge down seemed best. We tried moving weight to bow which made push worse. It seemed best this arangement but just not as much push. I used to run 10.7 with old set up. It didn't seem to make much difference at all from 10.5 -11. It seemed to lose push over 11.

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martinarcher

I would slow it down to 10-10.2 and try to cheat the weight rearward. I know with my gates I don't have to run the boat near as fast to get a nice long wave with lots of push. You could also try listing the boat a little bit more to the surf side. I know with my boat, I run a list to the port side which gives my regular wave a lot of push. The goofy wave is just inherently better on our boat so when we do a transfer the goofy wave looks very similar even with the weight favoring the opposite side. I'm not a very good goofy surfer yet, but the goofy wave has plenty of push for me to ride it.

Just for a comparison we run about 800-1000lbs on the port side, 250-300 in the locker, 500 on the starboard side with people sitting where they want, wedge down and speed set to 10.2.

Goofy...

PA140742.jpg

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Regular....

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IMG_1673.jpg

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I will give that a shot. The slowest i tried was 10.5. I'll try less weight in the bow and slow it down. I thought I read that faster was better with the surf gates. I know in the past slower speeds meant soft wake. Hopefully its not the case now. The water is a bit nippy yet to be playing to much IN the water.

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I have had made a very close version of surfgate for my 2004 23LSV. I will post pictures if someone will tell me how... ;P

Edited by Bert
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  • 5 weeks later...

Dam Surf Ramp!!!!!!

Completely King Starboard and stainless steel.

3Gb3I13N25Lc5G75Hfd63cbbbebd532971c54.jp

2003 Supreme V220 boat.

3 people = 500 lbs

9.9MPH

400 lbs on Starboard side

950 lbs on Port side

900 lbs on floor in center

600 lbs in bow.

= 2850 water ballast

960174_598646343492589_1165112631_n.jpg

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  • 2 months later...

Frank do you have any pics of your gate install? I have the same boat as you do and I'm interested to test this out!

  • Like 1
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  • 3 months later...

This was such a cool idea that I just had to design my own. My challenges were the odd shape of my hull compared to the nice flat transoms and such of the newer boats. So this is a bit of a longer post because I've been taking pictures and data and evolving the gate all week. I went out with Ronnie yesterday afternoon and we dialed in the ballast so I think I'm mostly done with the prototyping. In conclusion though, this SlurpeeGate :rofl: gives me just as much push, a bit more height, and about twice the length of wake. And I can move it from one side to the other manually in about 10 seconds. No Tools. All in all I am VERY happy with this modification. Now we don't have to bake as bags drain and fill to switch sides.

So, now on to the saga. First off, my goal was to build a single apparatus to mimic Malibu's surfgate while also making several improvements. To start with I built a simple square tab that could be adjusted out to various angles through different length dowel rods. Mostly I built all this with parts I had laying around in the garage. It's solid wood, and I treated every part with Water Seal the day before just so I'd be assured of it lasting through prototyping.

IMG_1513.jpg

Figure #1 - SlurpeeGate Mk1 freshly installed.

IMG_1514.jpg

Figure #2 - SlurpeeGate Mk1 - Another picture from the top down ready for test.

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Figure #3 - SlurpeeGate Mk1 freshly failed. LOL. The plastic hinge held up fine to the large angle of 45degrees from the platform that I started with, but as I saw the results of the wave converging too far behind the boat and started bringing the angle in tighter the plastic finally failed. Back to the dock.....

IMG_1540.jpg

Figure #4 - SlurpeeGate Mk2 - Well actually, it's a MK3, but I don't have a picture of the improved hinges on just the Mk2 so here it is. I used doubled up framing brackets and PVC couplings to give a rock solid footing for the dowel rods.

I'd post some pictures of the wake, but let's skip ahead a bit to a major problem. If you don't have the gate surface parrallel to the hull edge you create a low pressure pocket of water behind the transom right at the corner between the boat and the gate. The water rushing around this pocket forms a wall. That makes for this awesome fire hydrant effect as water rushing underneath this chimney gushes up through the pocket and up into the air. Awesome effect when you have my gate out for the 45 degree test. It's like walking into a waterfall if you're sitting on the sun deck. My first hypothesis was that this could be fixed if I'd just bring the gate all the way flush to the transom. You can see that in the picture above.

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Figure #4 - SlurpeeGate Mk3 Picture #1

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Figure #5 - SlurpeeGate Mk3 Picture #2. I'll sum up this effort with maybe a 10% improvement in the fire hydrant effect. I gave up on solving it for the day and went to take some wake pictures. Yay. Keep in mind I didn't dial in the wake yet on the photos below. Total Baseline starting point.

GOPR0364.jpg

Figure #7 - SlurpeeGate Mk3 Goofy - 400lbs in each locker, 400lbs in the ski locker, 600lbs in the bow sac, wedge deployed, one person driving, 1/2 tank gas, 11.2mph

GOPR0396.jpg

Figure #8 - SlurpeeGate Mk3 Goofy - Same setup as Figure #7 but with me surfing. The wake was very long. I normally can't surf ropeless half that far back. There's wasn't a lot of push though which I attribute to the lack of steepness to the wake. It was about as high as I could get it listing the boat though.

GOPR0597.jpg

Figure #9 - SlurpeeGate Mk3 Normal - Same setup as Figure #7.

GOPR0567.jpg

Figure #10 - SlurpeeGate Mk3 Normal - Same setup as Figure #7. I had the same general impressions about the normal wake as the goofy wake. Obviously I need to spend some time dialing in the wake a bit more. Also, I don't think I'll take surf pictures from a mount on top of the tower any more. The angle and lens of the GoPro take all the drama out of the wake size. OH, and to see the fire hydrant effect. Look at the starboard corner of my transom in these photos. Here I've shoved a bit of noodle toy I ripped up down in the pocket to cut down on the magnitude by about half. It's still bad and will find it's way into your bilge after a half hour.

So now we move onto yet another modification.

IMG_1541.jpg

Figure #11 - SlurpeeGate Mk4 - The noodle gave me an idea. I packed out the tab to match the angle of the hull to fill in the eddy space and give something that made an attempt at laminar water flow. The noodle is still there for some gap filling. It's key to have that space filled somehow.

IMG_1542.jpg

Figure #12 - SlurpeeGate Mk4 - Another picture showing how the angles match the hull on the bottom half of the gate. If I had dedicated tabs for each side of the platform I probably would have matched the hull all the way up. But it doesn't seem to matter after the fact, and before the fact I wanted a single apparatus to store that could be on either side of the platform.

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Figure #13 - SlurpeeGate Mk4 - Final picture of the new gate from top down. Looks really elegant I think. And it worked so well.

GOPR0646.jpg

Figure #14 - SlurpeeGate Mk4 Goofy - Ronnie and I spent some time dialing this in yesterday afternoon. This is with 400lbs in each locker, the ski locker full at 400lbs, the bow sac actually mostly empty at I'm guess 80lbs, an extra 400lb sac placed cross wise on the center of the rear bench, the wedge deployed, and a driver. 10.7mph.

GOPR0671.jpg

Figure #15 - SlurpeeGate Mk4 Normal - Same setup as Figure #14.

So now how about some video of the Goofy wake being surfed......

Well, nevermind. Just tried to get into Photobucket to dump the video and it's a no go. Weird site issue. I'll see about putting it on Youtube here in a bit.

Hi Slurpee

I have this on the list for my off-season project. Are you still running Slurpeegate or have you moved to a more permanent/automated version like martinarcher?

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Hi Slurpee

I have this on the list for my off-season project. Are you still running Slurpeegate or have you moved to a more permanent/automated version like martinarcher?

I am curious about this as well, I was looking for the details on how to make this gate and i have had trouble finding them, But I am definitely looking to build one that involves not drilling holes and can switch sides like slurpeegate!

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  • 1 month later...

Howdy,

I still use the SlurpeeGate. I haven't really found a need to redesign it yet as it works just great. No signs of stress on the platform or mounts. No warping or rotting of the wood - gotta love bathing stuff in Thompsons Water Seal. Every now and then in big rollers we lose the noodle I use as a gasket, but I just rip a new one from one of the many noodles always stuffed in a pocket somewhere.

I've studied it and I don't think I could make my hull shape work well with an automated gate. Besides I like being able to strip the transom of accessories to have more room in the garage in the winter.

I'll probably do a little modification to it this next summer as I'm adding an FAE and I have to lift the platform an inch or two because my fakesetter started live as a slalom boat and has a really shallow draft. I need the space for the exhaust pipe to clear the wedge. So if the SlurpeeGate doesn't work well being offset another inch or two higher, then I'll probably just make the wing wider to compensate.

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  • 3 months later...

Here are some pics of the mounting arrangement....

RAM mount ball up front and stainless screw eye for the turnbuckle.

IMAG1148.jpg

Here is a top down view of the back of the gate.

IMAG1142.jpg

The original gate size.

IMAG1147.jpg

The resized gate.

IMAG1154.jpg

I am thinking of trying this out with a old snowboard i have laying around. Are the only mount points the RAM mount and the turnbuckle?

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